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Jourdal

[P4A] Mitsuru Kirijo Gameplay Discussion

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Are you asking players you recently have played against for help or just random people who haven't played you?

I would ask players in the same character threads. characters I like playing with. but more of the seasoned vets wouldnt even bother responding. and asking random people never works. you just get disregarded.

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That is VERY rare to come by. and like I said 'go practice' does not help unless you know WHAT your practicing. I spent countless of hours in the lab on MvC3 and am I better then all of my friends? Easily. but I dont want to just beat my friends. I want to be what ive come to define as "Stream worthy". I want to log into dust loop (or at the time SRK) and feel like Im a name someone remembers.

You shouldn't have to be told what to practice in order to know what to practice. I don't know how much you've actually played online matches, but I'm sure that if you've played a few, you should be noticing that some things in your playstyle aren't perfect. What you do then is save a replay of that match and watch what you do during said match. If you see something you do that you didn't like -- for example "Oh man, why did I use Noel's 3C without meter? I got punished for doing that!", or "Oh man, why did I drop that combo? I need to make sure I have that down so I don't miss out on big damage!" -- then go into training mode and fix those things you didn't like in your gameplay. Another big misconception I think people make is that they think that they won't be able to know what to fix, but in reality, if you see yourself constantly being punished for something, or that you keep dropping a certain combo, then that's definitely a sign that you have to fix something.

Again, you shouldn't really need to be told what to practice. If you can pinpoint what is causing you to not do well, then it should already be clear what you're going into training mode to fix.

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That is VERY rare to come by. and like I said 'go practice' does not help unless you know WHAT your practicing. I spent countless of hours in the lab on MvC3 and am I better then all of my friends? Easily. but I dont want to just beat my friends. I want to be what ive come to define as "Stream worthy". I want to log into dust loop (or at the time SRK) and feel like Im a name someone remembers.

If this is very rare to come by I have no idea what forum I'm on right now, I thought I was on dustloop right now, the site with the critque/improvement threads in almost of every character section and all the help I and some of my friends have gotten. Also you seem to have missed the first half of my edit which was "figure it out." You can A. watch more match videos to try and see what other people do B. get a decent enough grasp of your character's frame data/hitboxes with some good old fashioned reading to figure out what you could have done. If you're not saying something like "I should have hit-confirmed here" or "I need to mix in more overheads and spam throw less" you won't improve.

Why am I so active in a Mitsuru thread, I play the other top tier character!!

:ballAI:

Edited by destruction_adv

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If this is very rare to come by I have no idea what forum I'm on right now, I thought I was on dustloop right now, the site with the critque/improvement threads in almost of every character section and all the help I and some of my friends have gotten. Also you seem to have missed the first half of my edit which was "figure it out." You can A. watch more match videos to try and see what other people do B. get a decent enough grasp of your character's frame data/hitboxes with some good old fashioned reading to figure out what you could have done. If you're not saying something like "I should have hit-confirmed here" or "I need to mix in more overheads and spam throw less" you won't improve.

Why am I so active in a Mitsuru thread, I play the other top tier character!!

:ballAI:

must have missed the memo...just moved to this neighborhood. not sure how this community operates compared to others....but thats why im here. obviously...

but everything said in this thread alone has helped....asking the right questions....never realized I needed that mindset. MvC3 is about THROW MORE ASSISTS AND TELEPORT MORE.

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On an irrelevant note, does anybody know the timing on this part of the combo? Corner throw 5a 5a 5b sweep b coup droit? I know you have to 5a immediately after the throw but the 5b keeps whiffing. Do I have to delay the A strikes for a bit? Do I have to charge 5b a bit?

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I dig what your saying but ive encountered many a time where I didnt have the level of sharingan to comprehend exactly what the person did, or was trying to do. but I think thats on me....im nto sure how to level up without finding the houston TX scene meetups.

if you live in houston you should hit up kid viper

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Go practice what? Time in the lab means nothing when no progress is made. its not about quantity but quality and a new comer like me hits walls frequently and doesnt know where to go from there. Plus just telling them "go practice more"really feels more like your getting brushed off. 'Dont talk to us until you have reached our level."

Im not trying to whine but this was my big issue with SRK and MvC3. I would be talking to people who are top players asking for tidbits of advice and they would brush you aside with "go practice" or no respond at all. Im not looking for the easy way out. you dont become good over night but I couldnt even figure out what to do to get better. aside from switching my morrigan/doom/dante team to a standard dormmamu/doom/sentinel. telling someone "If you wanna be good stop playing with bottom tier characters" That doesnt help either.

well, i'm one of those people you mentioned that don't offer help and just say "go practice more". but you seem pretty desperate and seem like you're willing to learn, so i suppose i can give you some tips on how to better yourself. although, ichipoo already did a fair job of doing it

1. learn the basics of your character; i.e. high/low attacks and the fundamental combos. i always try to learn the most damaging but plausible combos first

2. learn to block. VERY IMPORTANT

3. my last advice is play others who are on your level or slightly above your level first. then work your way up

believe me, when i first started bb. i was god awful but doing the above turned me into the CT jin hero....of netplay anyway lol

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Go practice what? Time in the lab means nothing when no progress is made. its not about quantity but quality and a new comer like me hits walls frequently and doesnt know where to go from there. Plus just telling them "go practice more"really feels more like your getting brushed off. 'Dont talk to us until you have reached our level."

Im not trying to whine but this was my big issue with SRK and MvC3. I would be talking to people who are top players asking for tidbits of advice and they would brush you aside with "go practice" or no respond at all. Im not looking for the easy way out. you dont become good over night but I couldnt even figure out what to do to get better. aside from switching my morrigan/doom/dante team to a standard dormmamu/doom/sentinel. telling someone "If you wanna be good stop playing with bottom tier characters" That doesnt help either.

Research more. There are a lot of things that go into being good at a fighting game and researching is one of them. Research players you're going to be facing. Research spacing of your moves. Research combos. Research good players. Research your own mistakes.

The interesting thing most people who are good at fighting games is that they don't necessarily play their main character, they play the entire cast to gain a better understanding of what other characters can and cannot do.

If you want to be "Stream Worthy" you'll have to do quite a bit of homework. Practicing is more than just combos. It's understanding spacing, neutral game, techs, frame traps, air unblockables, punishes, counter hits, fatal counter hits, zoning, pacing, momentum, not auto-piloting, oki, set-ups, yomi, cross-ups, cross-unders, the list goes on and on. There's a lot you need to understand about your character and others, so it's something a lot of FG experience will give you, but often times, you'll have to find these things on your own. Dustloop will give you combos, but they won't give you many of those things I listed, even a friend's advice can't help you with those things. It's mostly stuff you have to understand yourself. FGs are really self-dependent.

You shouldn't have to be told what to practice in order to know what to practice. I don't know how much you've actually played online matches, but I'm sure that if you've played a few, you should be noticing that some things in your playstyle aren't perfect. What you do then is save a replay of that match and watch what you do during said match. If you see something you do that you didn't like -- for example "Oh man, why did I use Noel's 3C without meter? I got punished for doing that!", or "Oh man, why did I drop that combo? I need to make sure I have that down so I don't miss out on big damage!" -- then go into training mode and fix those things you didn't like in your gameplay. Another big misconception I think people make is that they think that they won't be able to know what to fix, but in reality, if you see yourself constantly being punished for something, or that you keep dropping a certain combo, then that's definitely a sign that you have to fix something.

Again, you shouldn't really need to be told what to practice. If you can pinpoint what is causing you to not do well, then it should already be clear what you're going into training mode to fix.

Kind of like how I learned how to play Noel to defeat Noel. Always have a goal as you're going into training mode. Don't rush it. One step at a time so you don't forget any of the lessons you've learned.

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That is VERY rare to come by. and like I said 'go practice' does not help unless you know WHAT your practicing. I spent countless of hours in the lab on MvC3 and am I better then all of my friends? Easily. but I dont want to just beat my friends. I want to be what ive come to define as "Stream worthy". I want to log into dust loop (or at the time SRK) and feel like Im a name someone remembers.
Just gonna throw my own two cents on this, and you probably know this already, but at the end of the day, just play to have fun. I'm not telling you to stop trying to get famous but if you don't have fun while trying to achieve your goal, then you might as well be wasting your time. I may as well be one of the worst players in my scene, maybe to the point where a few members are disappointed in how I barely make any progress and how I still make stupid mistakes but I've always managed to have fun playing anyway.

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Does any of this stuff have anything to do with Titsuru?

If he's trying to learn Mitsuru, yes. If not, not sure why he posted and we replied to it.

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I just don't understand why people need to be spoon fed so hard nowadays. We should really come up with a "beginner flowchart" for all these newcomers...

1. Know the System and Terminology: What's an IB? What's a IAD? What's a DP? What's a Guard Primer?

1A. Watch Japanese Match Videos of the Character You're Interested In (Optional): Learn from the best, if they're not using X move that often then it must be for a reason. If they're spamming X move and it's yielding positive results, then it must be for a reason. If they're getting hit by X moves that often then it must be for a reason. Learn from their mistakes so that you don't have to go all trial-and-error out there.

2. Get Familiar With Your Moves: Know their properties, what they can be canceled into, their visual hit-box and whether they're highly punishable or not. "It seems like that move would be best used at X range. That other move seems to be highly punishable on block." With the Dustloop Wiki, you don't even have to go out there blind. The move descriptions and all of their cons and pros are there on the wiki.

3 Learn Combos: So now that you know what moves do what, you can start working on combos. Learn some basic combos to build a foundation and work your way up from there.

4. Learn Some Basic Pressure/Mix-up and Learn How to Hit-Confirm: Once you learn what moves do what, then you can start mounting an offense and eventually try to open people up. Since you already know some combos, all you have to do is hit-confirm a successful attack into a combo. In the other hand, unsuccessful attacks need to be converted into viable and safe-if-possible block-strings.

4A. Learn Some Gimmicks and Resets (Optional): Simple mix-up is good and all but you need to be able to have a bag of tricks to keep things moving. Of course, you don't want to abuse these as they have their flaws.

5. Get Out There and Find People to Play With: Put all of what you've learned into practice.

6. Learn From Both Your Wins and Losses: Why did I win? Why did I lose? Why did X happen at Y time? Why isn't Z working?

7. Extra Research: You'll have to learn what your opponents are capable of through more than just trial and error and experience so it wouldn't hurt for you to read their wiki pages and learn what makes those characters tick. That and read the available match-up threads.

Edit: Might be slightly off-topic but we're still discussing the game and that in itself is in the green, according to the higher ups lol

Edited by Moy_X7

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On an irrelevant note, does anybody know the timing on this part of the combo? Corner throw 5a 5a 5b sweep b coup droit? I know you have to 5a immediately after the throw but the 5b keeps whiffing. Do I have to delay the A strikes for a bit? Do I have to charge 5b a bit?

I can only think maybe you're charging 5B?

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mitsuru is hella fun, gotta confirm random hits pretty well to be successful

also mitsuru nav talks a lot lol

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mitsuru is hella fun

Yes !

Some interesting things I learned while playing yesterday...some irrelevant, some obvious but eh:

-Her 5C (sekkajin), at first i was mashing..since I'm used to Jin, but you can just charge it, and during that charge you can buffer other charges https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9A4a9oI7Ww in this crappy combo i uploaded i was buffering 2 the around the 7th or so hit and then just pressed 8+C after the 15th hit. When i tried mashing it, it didnt work, and holding down mid 5C made her crouch and stop the animation prematurely.

-Charge times aren't bad at all

-J.A still the god?

-Spacing is important for her D normals it's easy for it to whiff completely or be too close, at least thats what it feels like

-Teddie can ead

Also...i should have pointed it out, but LK let me know that the combos in the combo thread are kind of off because, i failed to specify if the B normal in the combo was charged or not...and it's sort of important lol and i was accidentally charging and it threw off some of my confirms off things like JDD or 5DD

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Yeah I mean, how else were you doing droit after 5C without holding it? lol

5a and j.a are godlike yes. <3 her feint. OOC how are we gonna specify charging 4/5/6b in combo notation? Or should we just write "slight charge" etc?

Edited by DC

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i actually was mashing and still buffering charge just fine but it was 80% success rather than 100%, i just need it out of my system. And something like {4B} for example should work?

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in my personal notes i have charged normals marked with BE (like BE5B)

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What does BE stand for? Also Jourdal, you should use 1 to charge instead of 2.

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I just don't understand why people need to be spoon fed so hard nowadays. We should really come up with a "beginner flowchart" for all these newcomers...

1. Know the System and Terminology: What's an IB? What's a IAD? What's a DP? What's a Guard Primer?

1A. Watch Japanese Match Videos of the Character You're Interested In (Optional): Learn from the best, if they're not using X move that often then it must be for a reason. If they're spamming X move and it's yielding positive results, then it must be for a reason. If they're getting hit by X moves that often then it must be for a reason. Learn from their mistakes so that you don't have to go all trial-and-error out there.

2. Get Familiar With Your Moves: Know their properties, what they can be canceled into, their visual hit-box and whether they're highly punishable or not. "It seems like that move would be best used at X range. That other move seems to be highly punishable on block." With the Dustloop Wiki, you don't even have to go out there blind. The move descriptions and all of their cons and pros are there on the wiki.

3 Learn Combos: So now that you know what moves do what, you can start working on combos. Learn some basic combos to build a foundation and work your way up from there.

4. Learn Some Basic Pressure/Mix-up and Learn How to Hit-Confirm: Once you learn what moves do what, then you can start mounting an offense and eventually try to open people up. Since you already know some combos, all you have to do is hit-confirm a successful attack into a combo. In the other hand, unsuccessful attacks need to be converted into viable and safe-if-possible block-strings.

4A. Learn Some Gimmicks and Resets (Optional): Simple mix-up is good and all but you need to be able to have a bag of tricks to keep things moving. Of course, you don't want to abuse these as they have their flaws.

5. Get Out There and Find People to Play With: Put all of what you've learned into practice.

6. Learn From Both Your Wins and Losses: Why did I win? Why did I lose? Why did X happen at Y time? Why isn't Z working?

7. Extra Research: You'll have to learn what your opponents are capable of through more than just trial and error and experience so it wouldn't hurt for you to read their wiki pages and learn what makes those characters tick. That and read the available match-up threads.

Edit: Might be slightly off-topic but we're still discussing the game and that in itself is in the green, according to the higher ups lol

Ill do my best to refrain in the future.

Thank you everyone for all the advice. I really have a lot to think about....thank you for putting me on what feels like a path that ill learn something. lol.

Please forgive my uber noob-ness.

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you cant get the full hit unless they are airborne. the last hit relaunches.

also i feel like you shouldnt be too rough to newcomers when it comes to learning things - not everything we think of as obvious is obvious to someone coming in, and it can take time to internalize abstract ideas and concepts

Edited by Lord Knight

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