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NickExtreme1

[P4A] Labrys - Gameplay Discussion

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Yes, I knew that you could roll through it, but I assumed roll had invincibility on frame 1 (I read just now it does not), so what Tari is saying is right, it'll catch them trying to jump out (first 3 frames), but rolls would beat it. Well, on the plus side, if you read roll, you can punish their recovery with a 5B CH...likewise, unless you're close to them, you can also make their DP attempts whiff entirely, including Mitsuru's.

Labrys oki still not very good...

I'm not actually sure we can even get a move to hit 3 frames after an opponent's wakeup. If we could, then roll outs shouldn't be possible. The reason jumping out isn't possible is because, in addition to the jump startup itself, there're a couple frames after the opponent goes airborne during which they cannot block at all.

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True meaties will beat all but wakeup DP. There is always the chance of late tech to force your meaties to not be..well meaty. You cannot roll (1-3F vulnerable), jump (same idea), attack (no 0F invul moves) other than DP. Alternatively, you can always use sword to cover unsafe moves (DP, universal overhead, etc), but you probably won't have time to meaty those after a 22X setup.

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@Tari: Yea, I just tested that, I could get Mitsuru to do Air DP to go right over the sweep (if it were grounded, it would have hit Labrys). That being said, you can create a true meaty situation with 5A/2A (couldn't roll out of it), but in order to do that, you have to be really close to them on sweep, so a 5B-2AB-22X for example at point blank. A more practical application would be say 5A-2AB-22X, anything that would allow you to hit with 5A-2A without having to move, and you're allowed a little more range on this than the 5B. This should be able to work with up to 3 2As too (i.e. 2A-2A-2A-2AB-22X...), you just have to omit the 5B because it pushes them back too far for 5A/2A to hit without moving.

I could be wrong on this, but I couldn't roll out of those attempts.

You can also do this off of j.B (j.B-5A-2AB-22X, or j.B-2A-2AB-22X) if you're not too far away.

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@Tari: Yea, I just tested that, I could get Mitsuru to do Air DP to go right over the sweep (if it were grounded, it would have hit Labrys). That being said, you can create a true meaty situation with 5A/2A (couldn't roll out of it), but in order to do that, you have to be really close to them on sweep, so a 5B-2AB-22X for example at point blank. A more practical application would be say 5A-2AB-22X, anything that would allow you to hit with 5A-2A without having to move, and you're allowed a little more range on this than the 5B. This should be able to work with up to 3 2As too (i.e. 2A-2A-2A-2AB-22X...), you just have to omit the 5B because it pushes them back too far for 5A/2A to hit without moving.

Did I miss something, or why wouldn't you want to move?

2AAA 5B 2A+B x 22B, 66 5A is 100% meaty if you do it correctly. Don't get the 2A though unfortunately. After 2A+B x 22B you're still at like +12 or something insane like that, so you have plenty of time to start up a dash and get your 5A out there.

Doesn't seem like you can get a true meaty after [5B] 2A+B x 22B though, which sucks. Unless you're in the corner of course.

Also didn't see mentioned, but Mini Jump is actually reversal lower body invincible. So you can wake up and mini jump over a meaty 2A. Fun.

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Yeah, short jump is foot and throw invuln from frame 1.

Didn't realize the 2A/5A off the 22x setup was still meaty, good to know.

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I've noticed that 5C 2C is SOMETIMES solid on block, and sometimes it isn't. Does anyone have any tips on this one? It seems like there are actually just gaps between hits of the 5C on occasion even. It's not hard to hit the 5C-2C cancel as early as possible, but even when you do that it feels pretty inconsistent about if it's 100% solid or not.

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probably range of the 5c when you start/when you cancel into 2c

no tips beyond that. sorry mate.

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Man sometimes Labrys is really discouraging to play online. I've all but given up on consistantly landing 236236D after j.214B. Every time you fuck up its 50 meter waste, all of your axe guage, and a free fatal counter. Holy shit, that's what I call a punishment for messing up. Any advice? I'm seriously weighing all-out not even trying to do it anymore.

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Doesn't 236236C combo from that too?

It does, but only if they're higher than you when you do j.C, as demonstrated in Tari's vid. The D version, on the other hand, will always connect, provided the combo hasn't scaled too much.

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It does, but only if they're higher than you when you do j.C, as demonstrated in Tari's vid. The D version, on the other hand, will always connect, provided the combo hasn't scaled too much.

Just as a note, it's actually possible to combo into C super even if the opponent isn't above you during j.C. The window you have to successfully combo the super cancel, though, shrinks to only a few frames, so it's by and large not worth trying to do outside of the optimal j.C catch height.

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I feel like a real idiot right now, I just realized 236P-6-A is at +1 on block. THAT certainly needs fixing on the wiki. :I

But yeah I went through and tested all the data on that Japanese wiki page and it's all correct as best I can tell. What is the second SD value for the air guillotine axe's anyway? Is that the "full height" value?

Need to figure out more combos that end with 5D setups ...

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Man sometimes Labrys is really discouraging to play online. I've all but given up on consistantly landing 236236D after j.214B. Every time you fuck up its 50 meter waste, all of your axe guage, and a free fatal counter. Holy shit, that's what I call a punishment for messing up. Any advice? I'm seriously weighing all-out not even trying to do it anymore.

I've had trouble with the D super dropping out too, even on short combos where hitstun proration shouldn't come up. From what I understand, D super dropping on juggles is a combination of height, distance (They should be right up in your shit after 214B, and at least a bit above you during jC) and hitstun proration. Character specific hurtboxes prolly mess with it too.

It's prolly in your best bet to just find stable ways to do it and stick with those since like you said, trading a round/match win for eating a full punish or spending an extra 50 meter to save your ass is all sorts of shitty.

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I feel like a real idiot right now, I just realized 236P-6-A is at +1 on block. THAT certainly needs fixing on the wiki. :I

But yeah I went through and tested all the data on that Japanese wiki page and it's all correct as best I can tell. What is the second SD value for the air guillotine axe's anyway? Is that the "full height" value?

Need to figure out more combos that end with 5D setups ...

Yeah, second value listed for air guillotine's frame advantage is for level 2 air guillotine. SB version is +4 on block when done from high enough.

Adjusted the wiki for her chain knuckle info. Didn't realize it wasn't updated, thanks for pointing that out.

I've had trouble with the D super dropping out too, even on short combos where hitstun proration shouldn't come up. From what I understand, D super dropping on juggles is a combination of height, distance (They should be right up in your shit after 214B, and at least a bit above you during jC) and hitstun proration. Character specific hurtboxes prolly mess with it too.

It's prolly in your best bet to just find stable ways to do it and stick with those since like you said, trading a round/match win for eating a full punish or spending an extra 50 meter to save your ass is all sorts of shitty.

Any example of a combo that's unstable with D super? I've yet to have a drop I don't just consider a failure in timing on my part, so I'm pretty curious about this.

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It does, but only if they're higher than you when you do j.C, as demonstrated in Tari's vid. The D version, on the other hand, will always connect, provided the combo hasn't scaled too much.

Always connect? Maybe it will always connect if you activate it at the exact right moment, but that's the problem I'm having. Where is this video Tari made? I looked in the video thread but I must have missed it or something.

Edit: vvvv Thanks

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So on the subject of using 236236D without it being the match winner, do you guys always save your axe level for the next round or are there some match-ups where you figure you would lose the red axe before you could use it the next round so you use D super to ensure a kill for an easier win?

For example, against Liz and Yukiko, I've found that unless I guess right at the start of the round, I'll usually lose my axe meter when I am trying to get in so I don't see a point in keeping it from round to round against them if I can kill them with 236236D the previous round easily(assuming 236236C won't kill) and not give them a chance to comeback.

Or against Kanji, I usually spend my time zoning him until I get the amount of SP I like so I lose my red axe meter in that case. Though I know that is just more of a personal preference and not particularly match-up based like my previous one. I just don't like dealing with an awakened Kanji so I will gladly use my red axe to avoid that.

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That becomes highly dependent on the matchup and who you are fighting.

I find burning the axe to secure the round is better for when in the following round, you are not constantly getting comboed or put into blockstrings (ie. Naoto, Kanji, Liz, Yukiko). For characters that get in and will make it harder for you to get the axe meter back (ie. Akihiko, Chie, aggro Yuus, Yosukes, Mitsuru, etc), it might be a better choice to save the meter if you can. That said, preserving the meter may cost you the round if your opponent goes super saiyan and bodies you afterwards. This is why its player specific. If your opponent is a patient playing Yuu, you might want to burn that meter since you will probably be able to gain it back.

Another good point with awakening. Typically you want to remove your opponent's chance of going into awakening but esp so when they have dreadful awakening supers (Chie meteors, Yosuke speed up, S.Lab black flames).

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I just burn the meter if it's the only way for me to close out a round. If I don't have to burn it to win, I won't. Not too worried about characters or anything else, haha.

Obviously, I won't burn it if I think I'm so far behind that it won't let me win, either.

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my situations i will burn axe for, in order of preference.

1: for the match (not the round, the match)

2: to get my opponent to 10% life or less, without killing them, if i have a notably comfortable life lead

3: for the round.

main reason for two is it gives me time to get to at least blue if not green, while generally not costing me the round.

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edit: potential video stuffs

http://www.twitch.tv/mixupnight

in their archives. apparently two labrys's got to top8 or higher. so there might be some vods. gonna look thru eventually. ill tag if theres anything really noteworthy, but the heads up is here

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