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NickExtreme1

[P4A] Labrys - Gameplay Discussion

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Err i mean to counter grab those character who like to break pressure with pokes(Eg :Akihiko?).

Not sure that'll fly, since I believe if you mash throw after A chain, I THINK throw protection will kick in (will test later), if there are 5f throw protection like I thought. If there aren't though, yeah, throw stops people from mashing. If throw protection is 5f though, you're just going to get hit.

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What is "throw protection?"

Also, I'd be very careful doing anything after a blocked chain. The A follow up might be plus on block, but there's usually a large enough gap between it and the blocked chain to eat a free DP to the face. Unless I'm overlooking/misunderstanding something?

Edit: and yeah, moves with plus on block tend to be rarer in anime games since you have so many options for each move (special/super cancel, Gatling, jump cancel, etc), compared to something more traditional like SF, where usually the only thing you can when a move gets blocked is special/super cancel it.

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You're right about them being able to DP for free if you do the A follow-up. The only thing I could think that would stop them from DPing would be if chain knuckle stop left you outside of the range of their DP and recovered fast enough to punish it. Never used chain knuckle stop so I don't know if that's the case.

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What is "throw protection?"

Also, I'd be very careful doing anything after a blocked chain. The A follow up might be plus on block, but there's usually a large enough gap between it and the blocked chain to eat a free DP to the face. Unless I'm overlooking/misunderstanding something?

Edit: and yeah, moves with plus on block tend to be rarer in anime games since you have so many options for each move (special/super cancel, Gatling, jump cancel, etc), compared to something more traditional like SF, where usually the only thing you can when a move gets blocked is special/super cancel it.

Throw protection: there are 5 frames upon exiting blockstun where you cannot be thrown.

DPing after blocking a chain is stupid. Yes, there is a gap. But you can either use the stop dash drop a distance, simply do nothing up close, or, against counter-type DPs, you can dash up to them without pressing a button and punish from there. The risk of DPing out during this gap is massive because labrys has access to a large of options that end in her punishing the DP. DPing the initial chain hit would be far smarter...assuming labrys doesn't space properly to avoid that.

DPing the A followup on reaction is a different story, however.

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Sadly I don't think it can. The brake has a "skidding" recovery animation at the end, and I believe the opponent recovers before you do since the hitstun from a blocked chain is shorter.

Not sure though, needs testing.

Edit: Thanks for the definition. I knew that feature existed, but didn't know that's what it was termed.

Also reactionary DPs seem to be the problem. A follow up is slow enough to DP on reaction, while the B version is unsafe anyways. If I throw out a chain and it gets blocked, I usually consider that effort a wash and do nothing. It would be nice if they allowed you to choose when to draw in on the chain be blocked instead of the window for pressing 6 being tiny and predictable; I think if you could vary the draw in timing it would be harder to predict, if only slightly.

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if you are too close to complete a stop outside the range of their DP, you can simply not input a followup to the chain. The punish is character specific, since some will recover fast enough to block or DP again.

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Basically it's spacing dependent. Up close, you have enough blockstun to make the A followup a clean blockstring putting you at plus. At a distance, you MAY not have enough blockstun to make it clean, but you will be able to break -> block to try to bait reversals. Then again, if you are using chain at a distance, you have more worries than your opponent DPing the blocked chain like...rolled chain whiff into CH punish...

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If someone tries to DP after blocking your chain, I'm fairly sure it's always punishable if you simply don't do a chain followup, as not doing a followup basically puts both you and your opponent back into a neutral state.

As far as the A followup > throw thing goes, I just checked. It'll work on any character with slow enough normals (Mitsuru, Labrys, etc.), but only if they don't IB the A followup.

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Depending on range, you can throw the 236X~6~A earlier in the winch dash. It will hit meaty and give you more frame advantage than usual.

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I remember having someone on IRC test for me, winch dash brake does recover in time, even point blank, to block mashed DP (specifically Narukami's).

With that in mind, you can blow someone up for mashing DP after blocking a chain and seeing you dash towards them, although it's still not something you should use too often. If they can block A followup, they can DP it, so yeah.

I'll test later, unless someone gets to it first- does mashing throw after A followup work, or does throw protection kick in?

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Chain Knuckle's frame advantage on block is based on your distance to the other player. At close range it is -1 SD (no idea where the frame data got 0, it's never that good), typical distance usually more like -3 or -5.

Chain-Pull if done at close enough range will leave you at -1. You can also do Chain-Pull-Brake at any distance and get a guaranteed -1.

236P-6-A is never a solid block string under any situation on the ground. 236P-6-B can be though, but that's guaranteed punish on block. 236P-6-A+B is a solid string but you wasted 25SP just to be at disadvantage. :/

You can't throw after the follow up A even if they are mashing. You don't lose throw invuln because you did something in this game.

Most of Labs tools with Chain Knuckle would be way more useful if her 5A and 2A normals weren't slow as hell. I don't know what other characters have nothing faster than a 7F startup normal but it would be a good thing to know.

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Well I wouldn't say you CAN'T throw per se. You can throw, but not immediately. Mashing throw after a blocked A followup will never work. Grounded 236A/B -> 6 -> A really is never a clean blockstring so scrap what I said earlier. Delayed throw after A followup will not work on characters with fast jabs like Aki or Yu

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Non strategy related, but Im curious

As parts of the labrys army, what is your favorite matchup to play as her?

I know for me its Yukiko. Ive been thru worse zoning (guile v sagat in vanilla sf4, tsubaki v lambda in cs1, ragna v nu in ct, s-akiha v scumbag nero in mbcc) so i can understand how to be patient. And its just an enjoyable fight, even if i lose, i feel like i got outplayed, not some fradulent bullshit happened. Plus if you earn your way in, its easy to keep hold of it if your not being silly as shit.

Main motive in asking this is that if someone says they really enjoy a matchup that maybe i dislike, i can ask them questions to help me not hate it as much. ^^ Get it? Eh? Ehhh?

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When I actually think about it, I hate everything in this world, especially labrys matchups.

Least hated matchup is probably Aki. I've played it a lot, and I've started to understand how to bait his DP without being overly obvious about it(all I do in this game is bait DPs) and I don't really feel what he does is overly annoying the way some other people are. When I lose it's because I clearly messed up and gave him the momentum, and then failed on my escape attempts.

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I kind of dislike the Liz match-up. I feel like I just get impatient against her, and make really dumb mistakes. However, I've only played one decent Liz ever, so...

I like playing against Shabby, as rare as they are. It's a good challenge.

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Mitsuru. Teddie and Chie are close seconds for my favorite characters to fight against.

not sure if serious, or trolling

if serious, why? i feel like i constantly cant do anything vs good mitsurus besides like take risks.

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It isn't as though I have some amazing strategy that beats her. I just like the struggle. Having to be on the top of my game and then some to win is fun for me. My favorite match-ups in BB is Tao/Bang vs Lambda. My favorite match-ups in SF4 was my Zangief vs the waves of Seth/Sagats. It's sort of hard to explain.

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ahh no i get that then.

i love rising to the challenge (though fuck tao, thats annoying forever lol) so i get it entirely. just that every mitsuru i play is either

-average player, so they dont poke smart enough or block well enough and i just steam roll it, or

-good/great player, and i get to enjoy mostly blocking and making guesses to get out of pressure

its one of the matchups i really feel the limitations of labrys, so was hoping for insight, but i get ya ^^

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It isn't as though I have some amazing strategy that beats her. I just like the struggle. Having to be on the top of my game and then some to win is fun for me. My favorite match-ups in BB is Tao/Bang vs Lambda. My favorite match-ups in SF4 was my Zangief vs the waves of Seth/Sagats. It's sort of hard to explain.

You play gief now??

My favorite matchup is probably vs Chie and Yosuke. jB is hilarious in those matchups.

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You play gief now??

I played Gief in Vanilla. I've switched mains a lot in the SF4 series. Since the last time we played, I've mained Hakan, Cody, Dan and Rose. Now I am back on Dee Jay permanently now probably, unless I get in the Gief mode again, which I doubt.

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I played Gief in Vanilla. I've switched mains a lot in the SF4 series. Since the last time we played, I've mained Hakan, Cody, Dan and Rose. Now I am back on Dee Jay permanently now probably, unless I get in the Gief mode again, which I doubt.

Well, I pretty much just use ONI now.

I play a bunch of characters very competently in SFxT, but everyone decided they hate that game for some dumb reason.

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