[P4A] Labrys - Gameplay Discussion

[M19Kamikaze]

I should abuse the Critique thread more. I really should.

Question: Labrys baits an air burst. What do you do?

Maybe it's just my dumb luck but I can never get 2B to hit (if it does, it's too high to combo) and going for 5A leaves me in tears when I can't even auto-combo.

[Tecta1Eastside]

You should always be able to auto-combo after the burst bait.

If 5AA whiffs then try 5A>2B>jc>etc.

2B works but I believe that's height dependent. 2B>jc>j.B>jc>j.B>j.C>j.214B

I guess that's something I'll test out in training room 2morrow.

I know you can 236236C/D or [b+D] after the burst bait.

I wanna say that's height dependent as well.

[Sharakonta]

Looking at the optimal combo thread made me curious, what's the timing to do 5AA > 5AA > [b+D] in some of the combo's I get it with 5AA>5AA>2C>[b+D] but not with out the 2C any pointers for it?

[Surf]

Im not 100% sure but I think Tech may have omitted the 2C's on accident. Because I know that doesn't work

[Sharakonta]

Thank you Surf, I KNEW it seemed off cause there is no way you have the hitstun to do that.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Sorry about that.

If I made any errors when writing down combos let me know.

Edit: I fixed the combo I wrote down wrong.

I'll add some more today.

Edit:

Each burst bait starter depends on each height.

Some heights you can only 5A.

Some heights you can use 2B or even [2B] or [5B]

Its something I can only show if I had good recording equipment.

Record the CPU to burst at certain points and test it for each height for your combos.

[Sharakonta]

Tecta when you're talking bout [5B] you mean the level 2 one not the unblockable right?

[Surf]

Im sure he means the level 2 version.

Also Tech, I see there's no combos listed for Tsurugi confirms in the corner in the optimal thread right. Remember in the oki thread I listed some I found. Throw, Overhead, and a meaty 2A (for low/upbacks/quick escapes) one I didn't list before. Those three pretty much cover the 3 Tsurugi confirms you'll be getting. Since this post has to do with oki options and combos Ill just post it in general. Remember you have to be yellow axe or above for these.

2A

Imo doing 22A~[D] > 2A~Release D~A is more consistent than say 22[A]~2A. The first choice is actually a gapless string. So even if they guess correctly and block low your safe to continue pressure since the Tsurugi will have you + on block. And like I mentioned earlier they cannot up back or quick escape this setup. Quick escape punishing is a bit harder to time. Simply link the 2A's right after Labrys recovers from the Tsurugi and you should be fine. Try practicing with the training dummy on record and see if you can quick escape out of the setup. If you can, time the 2A's earlier.

22A~[D] > 2A~Release D~A > Tsurugi hits > dash in [5B] > 5D > 2B > 5DD > AoA > Tsurugi/walk back slightly 5D (Same as a 214A confirm)

(1635 DMG (1710 in Red)/10 SP)

Throw

Throw > Tsurugi hits > [5B] > 5D > dash 5A > 5DD > AoA > Tsurugi/walk back slightly 5D

(2748 DMG (2908 in Red)/20 SP)

214A

214A > Tsurugi hits > dash in [5B] > 5D > 2B > 5DD > AoA > Tsurugi/walk back slightly 5D

(2662 DMG (2854 in Red)/26 SP)

But there's another route is you want 214A > ~DD pressure or you want to finish a round with D Moujuu.

Confirm > 214A > ~DD

Here's an example of the route.

Throw > Tsurugi hits > dash up delay [5B] > 2C > 5D > 214A > 5DD oki

Make sure your extremely close with the charged 5B hit. And that you hit them right before they escape Tsurugi hitstun. Hitting them too early makes Labrys fly backwards and makes much of 2C whiff, which in turn makes 5D whiff. This route is also more damaging than the above. Usually by about 150-250 DMG. Works on all 3 starters

Moujuu Ender

Is simple, and here's an example. This route is for Yellow Axe. Theres a Red Axe route thats slightly better.

214A > Tsurugi hits > dash up delay [5B] > 2C > delay 214B > D Moujuu

And it's good damage (2AA is 4.6k/Throw is 6k/214A is 5.7k if your in Red Axe by the end).

The Red Axe route is

Confirm > Tsurugi hits > dash up delay [5B] > 236A~6A > 2B > sj.BC > j.214B > D Moujuu

(2AA is 4.9k/Throw is 6.4k/214A is 5.9k)

In the 214A confirm, omit the j.B after the 2B. Just sj.C > j.214B > Moujuu

I think that's all for now. Sorry about the long post. And I'm very very sorry for pointing this out Tech but now that I look at the combos more there are a lot of omitted notations. I know what notation is missing but I get a bit confused at times. Like for chain knuckle you listed just 6~A sometimes and not the 236A first. I got confused and thought you meant dash 5A at first.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Sorry I havent checked this thread or updated the combo thread in almost 2 weeks with extra info.

Gonna spend some time updating stuff since I'm done with CEO now.

Just give me around a week and I'll should have some info in the forum I guess.

EVO is really soon so get hype.

Edit:

I managed to fix the combo thread. Hopefully all errors are gone.

If I make a mistake in the future when posting a combo then just PM the combo with the section its from and I'll fix it.

The 22x Tsurugi combos havent been posted yet due to me making sure its optimal and plus I've been bouncing around certain parts of the combo thread making sure I've posted combos that are optimal or good enough to the point where everyone can do them.

[5B] is lvl 2 or half-charged 5B.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

I'd be more hype for Evo if it wasn't on Friday. I'll have to watch the archives later ;.; Good luck to any Labrys players who might be going to Evo though!

[Tecta1Eastside]

Alright so I'm going to post the stream from CEO that happened this weekend in the video thread.

There were 50 players I believe that registered.

I'll timestamp it too. I know there were 3 Labrys players that placed well.

Setsuna and another Labrys called Mix-up Mercy made Top 16. Setsuna tied for 13th I believe.

I dont know the exact placement of the other Labrys. I managed to tie for 5th place.

Fun event overall for everyone that was there.

Edit: I got the ok from Setsuna so to post the CEO stream pools so I'll dig through some of the recent tournament footage and post some more NA Labrys footage that was solid. I know Lvl 5 chan Labrys had a good showing at the last tournament in Canada as well.

[iora]

how many charged 5b can you do in a tsurugi combo thats near corner before its impractical damage wise? i want to end in oki, not in super.

[TransientFaith]

I'm pretty sure charge 5b has different properties for air/ground. Air hit charge 5b (ie after OMB) will link into another charge 5b. But ground charge 5b (ie after sword chain lock) will NOT link into another charge 5b.

So it goes like:

Tsurugi hit in corner -> charge 5b (grounded) -> 22A -> 5AA (or whatever filler) -> charge 5b (grounded) -> 5b -> sweep -> oki

Tsurugi hit in corner -> charge 5b (grounded) -> charge 2b -> do something -> OMB -> charge 5b (air) -> charge 5b (grounded) -> 5b -> sweep -> oki

Can't remember this off the top of my head but something like:

Tsurugi hit in corner -> charge 5b (grounded) -> 5b -> sweep -> gear super -> charge 5b (air) -> charge 5b (grounded) -> 5b -> sweep -> oki

^ That's the general idea but probably won't work if you dont have an SMP starter

[Eshi]

^nevermind you know more than me lol

[edollarports]

It's because the time you go flailing before sliding after air charge 5B doesn't count towards the slide untech time, letting you do manlier links. As a rule though 5b SMPs really hard and it's really not an optimal route unless you set the smp up.

[iora]

alright. just looking for new things to try. was trying to learn a little naoto, but i just miss labby too much so far.

figure i can try to learn shit i never bothered with, but if you need a setup for it so badly... it prob isnt worth knowing then -_-

[Surf]

Derp. I completely forgot about making an optimal near corner tsurugi confirm. Sorry. Transient alrwady posted some but lemme experiment with it a bit too

[edollarports]

It's not really a setup. You just do 9 hits worth of no repeated moves on the corner, OMB, and do a loop. Hard part is realizing you have the resources. As for corner tsurugi, you can do your best starter off of raw tsurugi. Prolly charge 5b/2b in the corner or a jumpin

[Tari]

I'd say it's worth knowing, it's just not the most likely thing that you'll have a chance to land it. Sort of like Brutal Impact red axe combos.

The basic SMP combo is pretty easy to do, so it's not hard to learn.

Non-awakening SMP combo: 5AA > 2A > 2B > sjc j.B > j.BB > j.C > j.214B, OMB, [5B], dash [5B] > 22A, 5A > 5B, dash [5B], dash 5B > Sweep > 236236D

Practically speaking, you'll rarely have a chance to actually do it, of course, but it's still useful to know. It's actually pretty good damage from a non-fatal counter 5A starter without a super ender (it does 4.3~4.5k meterless). It gains 25-27 meter mid-combo (depends on axe level when you start), and if you do manage to hit 50 meter, you can still super cancel the ending into an extra 2.8k damage.

If you start from green axe (the axe gauge must turn yellow before the second hit), you gain 25 meter and do ~7100 damage with super.

If you start with yellow axe, you gain 26 meter and do ~7150 damage with super.

If you start with red axe, you gain 27 meter and do ~7300 damage with super.

It's not really a setup. You just do 9 hits worth of no repeated moves on the corner, OMB, and do a loop. Hard part is realizing you have the resources. As for corner tsurugi, you can do your best starter off of raw tsurugi. Prolly charge 5b/2b in the corner or a jumpin

It's 10 moves prior to the OMB, not 9. There's actually a proration limit before the OMB, as well. If you use moves with too much proration (ie: 2A starter, for example), the SMP combo will still fail.

The typical SMP combo starter is this one: 5AA > 2A > 2B > sjc j.B > j.BB > j.C > j.214B > OMB > etc.

The 10 hits are 5A, 5AA, 2A, 2B, j.B, j.BB, j.C, j.214B (3 hits).

Multi-hit projectiles, ala j.C, only count as one move.

[TransientFaith]

Oh here's an interesting thought. If you do corner charge 5b -> 22A. Can you actually get the chain to hit meaty? Effectively setting up a jump in high/low mixup on their wakeup? Obviously there's the options of chain set > 5a meaty that we have a nice thread about. But since people are talking haha

[Tari]

Oh here's an interesting thought. If you do corner charge 5b -> 22A. Can you actually get the chain to hit meaty? Effectively setting up a jump in high/low mixup on their wakeup? Obviously there's the options of chain set > 5a meaty that we have a nice thread about. But since people are talking haha

If you mean the 22x swords, then yeah, I believe you can make them meaty. It's not the most common thing to get a good [5B] in the corner for that, though.

If you mean the 236x chains, then... I guess you can make them meaty? But if you mistime it, you're pretty much boned, hahaha. I guess you could try to bait the opponent into a punish by chain whiffing and then letting go of the 22x sword when they try to move?

[TransientFaith]

If you mean the 22x swords, then yeah, I believe you can make them meaty. It's not the most common thing to get a good [5B] in the corner for that, though.

Yeah...if you're going to end it like that you really better make that next mixup count.

If you mean the 236x chains, then... I guess you can make them meaty? But if you mistime it, you're pretty much boned, hahaha. I guess you could try to bait the opponent into a punish by chain whiffing and then letting go of the 22x sword when they try to move?

Haha yes. That's as silly as whiffing DP to bait a button and catching them with chain.

[Vvvv]

Yeah charged 5B > 22A is meaty. It's a free safe jump and you can't really late tech it since it's active so long. Not many things can go into a charged 5B ender though. Atleast you can do it for 25 meter midscreen :V

[edollarports]

snip

It's 10 moves prior to the OMB, not 9. There's actually a proration limit before the OMB, as well. If you use moves with too much proration (ie: 2A starter, for example), the SMP combo will still fail.

The typical SMP combo starter is this one: 5AA > 2A > 2B > sjc j.B > j.BB > j.C > j.214B > OMB > etc.

The 10 hits are 5A, 5AA, 2A, 2B, j.B, j.BB, j.C, j.214B (3 hits).

Multi-hit projectiles, ala j.C, only count as one move.

I'm not sure. I think that j.214B only counts as two moves after some old experiments I did (and the mook listing two P2 values). OMB itself counts as a move, which is why I said 9.

Proration affects the follow up SMP, but you should still always be able to do 5 5 5B sweep super.

[Tari]

I'm not sure. I think that j.214B only counts as two moves after some old experiments I did (and the mook listing two P2 values). OMB itself counts as a move, which is why I said 9.

Proration affects the follow up SMP, but you should still always be able to do 5 5 5B sweep super.

The triple 5B > Sweep > Super will usually work, unless you used way too many high proration moves in the pre-burst part of the combo. It's possible to make it fail at the sweep, lol.

OMB is indeed one hit, forgot about that. "It takes 10 hits for SMP detection to fail" is more along the lines of what I was thinking.

You could be right about the j.214A/B only counting as two hits. Haven't had a reason to test that before, honestly. It does only have two active hitboxes, apparently.