[P4A] Labrys - Gameplay Discussion

[Tari]

Some new crud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUSPhjA38kg

Useless stuff and sorta useful stuff all mixed together in one messy package.

edit:

Copy-pasted part of the vid description. It covers these things:

- corner air tech reset

- 5A fatal counter combo

- Tsurugi resets

- unburstable super punish against Teddie's unblockable super

- fuzzy guard and setups for it

- 5A anti-air counterhit and more Tsurugi resets

- pointless 5A CH super combo

- 5A fatal counter anti-air combo

- (125 meter + burst) AOA reset into another combo for 9k+ damage total and a variation that starts with only 100 meter.

[iora]

thoughts:

"tsurugi reset" = i have already been using j.a on block, and j.a after tsurugi to get tick throw setups. i dont like it resetting becauses they are grounded. they should be holding back while holding a tech button. granted its a mixup chance, but smart money just blocks high after getting hit with a j.a/j.b anyway. i fear AoA/214x resets kinda hard, while who gives a shit about 2a ^^

though the one at 0:54 is fucking sick.

"teddie punish" = stolen. ill hafta practice that ^^

"236x-6-a into OMC into mixup" = never even thought about that. sick. that alone was worth the video.

@2:27, theres a punish on mitsuru blocked dp. i think someone asked about that every thing in the mitsuru thread. hope he watches the video for an example.

in general i dont like resets on grounded opponents. especially if they are unsafe on block. why wouldnt you be blocking while on the ground. its not like a possible bad air tech, theres literally no reason not to block while you get hit. good to see examples, but i wont be using them

tari da god, thanks for the find. you do too much for us <3

[edollarports]

It's true that resets on the ground are more easily blocked, but the fact that tsurugi forces someone into standing hitstun means that the reset is a lot more ambiguous--techs kind throw away most reset options.

I just noticed that all your resets off blocked Mitsuru DP were green, too--godlike. And like Iora said, the teddie punishes and chain follow up OMC mixups were great.

But yeah, good shit, Tari, you're a hero.

[toanenadiz]

Not quite sure why it irks me not being able to get a B move to punish Mitsuru's DP but at least the 5A punish does good damage.

And nice video Tari. Is the AoA's launcher unblockable? Is that why that reset works?

[edollarports]

The reset is completely blockable, it's just that they drop out of the combo before hand. Also, some people try to tech forward out of AOA, especially in the corner, so it'll catch that.

...that's a legitimate explanation. Although realistically, a great deal of netplay hasn't found their block button, so yeah.

[Tari]

That reset is safe on block, but it's mostly a one-use gimmick that should only be done with 50 meter. It's legit only if you can enrage the opponent. You also don't have to actually reset there, you can just end the AOA as a legitimate combo by inputting the final hit slightly faster. If you launch them upwards, they tech immediately at the top, so you can try for an air-throw reset or something if you want.

Also, the standing resets are basically a form of ambiguous oki. It's not much different from knockdown for Labrys. The swords and their flashing dispersal animation help hide mixups a bit, too.

[iora]

i just dont like it because you are doing a reset instead of a combo with knockdown. seems like you are losing damage/axe meter for no gain

but i get your point. hell i have done AoA OMC AoA OMC AoA before. i cant say shit

[Tari]

If Labrys had really good oki, I'd totally agree that standing resets would be a huge loss. As it is, though, we're losing about 2 hits worth of axe meter and knockdown for a somewhat hard to see mixup. It's not really an amazing trade to make, still, but it's just something else to have in your bag of tricks if you ever need it.

I sorta like the reset option for Labrys, actually, since you can opt to end the same combos with actual knockdown. Some characters can't turn their normal combos into resets as easily. xD

edit: The idea behind the Teddie super punish comes from apologyman. Figure I'd mention that, since you guys seem pretty hyped about it. :P

[iora]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-C0Fo0ScWg&feature=plcp

start at 0:48

sweep, 214a, OMC, 2a 5b, reset into 236a

kinda clever. i like it

[Tari]

Some new notes:

- Labrys can do 5A > j.A as a gapless blockstring on the taller standing opponents. Even if the opponent IBs, most characters can't DP or 2B Labrys there, because she's jumping forward and they'll whiff behind her.

- Following on that, rising j.A > (delay) j.C > j.214A is actually an ambiguous crossup. It's pretty hard for a lot of characters to DP this, as well. Narukami, for example, has to time his DP at the right time, or he'll either whiff the wrong way, or simply go around Labrys as she's doing j.C and get sucked into the swords. 2B has similar problems, but is a bit more reliable than DPs. On characters who can't be hit by rising j.A, a rising or falling j.C works fine as well, it's just a bit more dangerous.

An example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0eZvpCAru0

[Setsuna]

Hi your scumbag Labrys Moderator here lol Sorry for the lack of updates in the combo thread, I've been busy with work / meet ups /netplaying and such. I'm very hesitate about what combos should go in the main post of the combo thread, one thing I never liked about other combo threads is how it lists about every damn combo imaginable. Combo thread will also be updated with the "tech" discovered over the past couple of days thanks to Tari in due time.

In anycase the first thing I decided to work on was Match Up Threads, I completed Yosuke and Kanji so far (if you guys feel information should omitted or added please feel free to let me know within the thread), not sure who I want work on next I don't feel as if I have a firm grasp of the Mitsuru match up but I really want hers broken down ASAP. I may work on Yu next or possibly fill out Akihiko a bit, everyone else I haven't fought any notable players of that character (or I may have but not enough to really figure solid things out to post and have everyone follow).

[VGJunky]

Any matchup advice at all is appreciated and desperately needed so anything will do

Addendum: Yeah I spent a pretty decent amount of last night getting mixed up or rushed down by Akihiko and Kanji, put some tricks to good use but those guys were more solid. Once they're in there I'm pretty toasted. Finding the gaps in pressure is pretty rough

[Darkside937]

The combo thread definitely needs an overhaul. There are a lot of "filler" combos that have superior variants, sometimes posted right under them. We need to weed those out in favor of optimal ones.

There are also a few minor errors and omissions (e.g., ###A instead of ###B, neglecting to mention when Tsurugi should be delayed or when the sword should hit in the combo, etc).

[iora]

suggestion for combo thread

whatever you end up doing maybe have like

(in whatever situation/axe level/whatever)

1 or 2 'beginner friendly' non-optimal combos [color em blue or something]

1 or 2 good combos that are reliable and close to optimal [bold em or something]

then the swag shit for max damage/max swag

just so its easy a glance to look up shit like 'i dont know a AA 2b FC combo, ill learn the bold one first' or something like that.

just a thought

[AchedSphinx]

Any Labrys player interested in a FT10? This seems to be a poor match up for me.

[VGJunky]

I was gonna say yes but every matchup is a poor matchup for me haha

Probably wouldn't be much help. Location could also be an issue

[Tari]

For Labrys' red axe combos, at the least, a lot of them use similar combo paths and have the same variable enders, so it's possible to list the loops and enders either as separate parts or as shortened/abbreviated combo parts.

Using a random fancy combo as an example...:

---

Combo fillers:

FC Loop:

• ...dash 5A > 2C > FC B+D...
  
  FC Loop Enders:
  
  
  1. ...2A > 2B > hj.B > j.214B (> 236236C/D) - optimal ender for most max FC loop combos
     
  2. ...2A > 2B > 2C > 214B (> 236236C/D) - midscreen ender if combo is less prorated (fewer FC loops performed)
     
  3. ...2A > 2B > hj.BB > j.C > j.214B (> 236236C/D) - corner ender if combo is less prorated (fewer FC loops performed)
     

  ---

  Combos:

  • (red axe, start midscreen) j.A > j.214A (2 hits) > OMC > 5B > 2C > FC B+D > FC Loop * 1-2 > FC Loop Ender 1-3
  
  
  • If starting fully cornered, combo changes to
    ...FC B+D > dash 5AA > 2C > FC B+D > FC Loop Ender 2
    
    
  • If starting from j.214A instead of j.A, you can only do one FC loop. FC Loop Ender 2 is most optimal in that situation.
    
    

  ---

  ...

  Badly written example, but I think you guys get what I'm trying to say. ><

  Any Labrys player interested in a FT10? This seems to be a poor match up for me.

  Labrys mirrors are very momentum based. Whoever gets going tends to win. There are very few reversals of momentum, but they do happen every now and then, and when they do, it tends to shift dramatically in the other players favour suddenly.

[VGJunky]

Yeah the mirror match can be pretty volatile. Jockeying for axe levels so you can win every counter hit trade

I don't think that guy plays Labrys though

[Tari]

Oh, true enough. Wasn't paying attention to his signature, whoops.

[toanenadiz]

Any Labrys player interested in a FT10? This seems to be a poor match up for me.

Depends on when you are normally online.

I don't think that guy plays Labrys though

Yeah, he's Aigis. He was a Lambda player in BB and 95% of those dudes play Aigis.

[iora]

I played Lambs, Plat, and Ragna in BB and Fuck Aigis.

I am the 5%. ^^

[AchedSphinx]

Oh, true enough. Wasn't paying attention to his signature, whoops.

It's cool dude, I should have mentioned it before.

Depends on when you are normally online.

I am normally online evenings, or all the time if I'm really trying to practice this or that. Usually that.

Yeah, he's Aigis. He was a Lambda player in BB and 95% of those dudes play Aigis.

It's probably lower than that. I only know like two people that played Lambda as main and went to Aigis. Well, there's a few more, but they gave up because she plays nothing like Lambda.

I played Lambs, Plat, and Ragna in BB and Fuck Aigis.

I am the 5%. ^^

Aigis is awesome, she wishes everyone a good morning before battle. Few have such swag.

Anyways, still looking for Labrys to do FT10 with.

edit: I should mention I'm on PSN. I tend to forget.

[Beatrice]

I'll gladly play with you. I'm certainly not top tier, but if you just need some exposure, I'd gladly throw down for a handful of fights with you =D

Go ahead and friend me or whatever, my PSN is on the side~

[AchedSphinx]

I'll gladly play with you. I'm certainly not top tier, but if you just need some exposure, I'd gladly throw down for a handful of fights with you =D

Go ahead and friend me or whatever, my PSN is on the side~

Alright, I will do that.

[VGJunky]

General discussion is pretty quiet around here. Can't think of anything to talk about though

Just thought some of you Labby folk might be interested in this

Just saw this. Really cool.