[P4A] Labrys - Gameplay Discussion

[FlyingVe]

I'm pretty sure they didn't care that 5B existed.

[iora]

possibly. but japan is japan, so who fucking knows what they are thinking half the time.

[FlyingVe]

Well, look at it analytically then

5B is one of the slowest moves in the game at it's range, and doesn't have any particularly special rewards for landing it. In addition, it has massive recovery, so if they jump or backdash between when you hit the button and the move comes out you are dead.

2B forces them to respect our AA to some extent (it's also slow), this means we are basically left with 5A and 2A on the ground, which isn't much.

jB is very good, but because of the way this game handles AA, any attack like that is naturally limited.

[Siefer]

I agree with Flying Ve, 5B and 2B aren't good as general neutral tools. 5Bs best application is in footsies and punishes, and 2Bs best application is to catch telegraphed (or predicted) air approaches, as well as predicted cross-up attempts from certain characters in the game (in that way, it functions similarly to Kanji's 2B). 2B isn't necessarily bad, but really serves as a defensive tool rather than a general neutral one.

EDIT: @Flying Ve: 5B offers your best damage options at green axe on CH. It is your best general punish option at green axe and can be used in footsies as well.

[toanenadiz]

Umm...I'm a scrub so I have no idea what the difference is between neutral and footsies. Care to explain or send me to the place that explains the difference?

[Siefer]

Neutral is simply what it sounds like, it's whatever you decide to do when you're in a neutral state.

Footsies, in the most simplistic sense, is simply moving just outside of your opponent's range and baiting a whiff to punish appropriately. In SF, it involves a lot of walking back and forth, using fast recovering normals with decent hitboxes to bait a response from your opponent. While the ground game isn't as strong in games like BB/P4A, you can still utilize a footsies in these games. A common example would be say, going up to your opponent pretending to throw them, backdashing, and then punishing their throw whiff appropriately. Labrys can do this with 5B.

[edollarports]

Well, look at it analytically then

5B is one of the slowest moves in the game at it's range, and doesn't have any particularly special rewards for landing it. In addition, it has massive recovery, so if they jump or backdash between when you hit the button and the move comes out you are dead.

2B forces them to respect our AA to some extent (it's also slow), this means we are basically left with 5A and 2A on the ground, which isn't much.

jB is very good, but because of the way this game handles AA, any attack like that is naturally limited.

5B is also like one of the few moves in the game that actually HAS that range. At that range, short of projectiles, not many normals or characters can challenge the battleaxe. You can't mash it, but it stops people I'd also like to point out that 5B partial charge's recovery is virtually nonexistent, and it's mad +++++++ on block.

2B functions much the same way, and like 5B, has no recovery on charge.

j.B is amazing, as long as you don't mash it like a moron and try to IAD fullscreen with it all day. You can also use air guillotines to bait 2B, as it's safe froma good height (EX is +).

As to toenadiz's questions, footsies and neutral kind of blend together for me. It's kind of a risk-reward thing, and for most people the risk of trying to punish 5B isn't worth eating partial charge 5B, and charge 5B is really hard to punish, etc.

The amount you get to use these moves depends on the matchup, but in a lot of them, most characters have to respect the massive battle-axe. I don't feel Labrys's neutral is weak, but just like her pressure, against a real opponent, you have to actually do work instead of asking the game for some hold-my-hand option.

[Tari]

j.B still has its uses, even if anti-airs can beat it. The opponent has to guess correctly between you perform j.A, j.B, j.C, and j.214x, basically. If you do neutral jump j.B, the opponent also can't just run up and 2B you very effectively. It commands a lot of space while it's out.

5B is not a good spacing tool. I'd put it almost on par with ground guillotines in terms of spacing potential. That said, it's good for baiting and punishing certain moves. It's also arguably okay to do at the start of a round if you think the opponent will eat the hit.

2B is an anti-air, through and through. It's not good for ground footsies. Labrys has fairly weak ground presence, unfortunately. Almost everything she can do to force the opponent to exercise caution involves an aerial move, at least until the opponent shows a bit of respect and stops rushing in.

...I basically just spent a lot of words to agree with Siefer. Haha, oh well.

[susano]

How would Labrys get out of pressure if she was cornered? I'm trying to avoid using that auto DP because it could be easily baited.

[FlyingVe]

5B is also like one of the few moves in the game that actually HAS that range. At that range, short of projectiles, not many normals or characters can challenge the battleaxe. You can't mash it, but it stops people I'd also like to point out that 5B partial charge's recovery is virtually nonexistent, and it's mad +++++++ on block.

Actually, it's so slow that dashing and hitting a button beats it. So you don't even need to match its range.

You bring up a good point about 5 though. However, I'd say that's more of a pressure trick than neutral.

Note: 5B is not a bad/useless move. Just not for neutral.

[WintySoSolo]

How would Labrys get out of pressure if she was cornered? I'm trying to avoid using that auto DP because it could be easily baited.

same way any character without a dp would - by making the proper choice, either by guessing or reacting. You have:

DP - not the best option

214214C/D - awakening only.

roll - not a reversal, more of a call-out option, and just as risky as DP, if not more so, but has to be baited differently.

jump - another call-out option, will get hit by meaty attacks.

mash - beats certain things

throw - NOT a good idea, but will beat certain things.

blocking - tends to be a good idea if you don't see anything else working. Or just a good idea in general. Sadly IB->DP is not a really good option for labrys because of how her DP works, so you should probably look more for jumping or doing a super if you think you can make a gap with IB.

[toanenadiz]

Thank you guys. I thought they were pretty much the same thing so I was talking about something different than you guys were. Sorry about that.

[Siefer]

If Labrys is cornered, you are in a really bad spot. Your best option is to block correctly and throw tech appropriately, giving you the window (eventually) to jump or roll out of the corner. If you're lucky, your opponent will do a really bad jump and you can 2B your way out (or just roll/run under him). Someone who knows how bad Labrys' DP is will constantly be looking for, and baiting it, so you have to be really careful in its applications. In awakening, yea, you have access to a legit reversal (and it can also be used to make your DP safer), but in any other situation...it's just blocking and throw teching mostly...

You can burst too, I've watched a lot of Labrys' do that just to reset to neutral and get the hell out of the corner. I've also seen some Labrys player use 236236C with a OMC. I'm not sure how effective that latter option is though.

EDIT: Oops, forgot about guard cancel, that is a viable option.

[redsilversnake]

I tend to guard cancel, especially if they have their Persona out.

[edollarports]

Guard cancel is the one system option Labrys has that's actually good...I hit DP once in a blue moon, since it's reactable unless it's something really slow or they're really really not used to it.

Mashing will get you out of gaps in minus strings (Mitsuru) or strings where characters have to run back in. I know roll is risky, but it's a lot harder to bait than DP, and you can do it on reaction to some things, such as IAD.

Throw is an important option to note because it is Labrys's fastest ground option, so it'll work where 5A won't sometimes (such as Chie's 5C dash cancel--5A will get stuffed, but you can throw her).

All in all, you just do a lot of blocking, preferably instant blocking. In the corner, 214214C will get you out of a lot of things (but is baitable midscreen by all characters and by some in the corner, especially with meter). But yeah, the one part of Labrys's game where she shows weakness (not just 'it's not amazing', but actually 'wow this is pretty bad) is her defense.

[Tari]

The only reason, other than a failed reversal, that 236236c > omc is even vaguely okay on block is because you can do some janky mixup off of it.

[iora]

236236c > omc > dumb mixup including!

> throw (the easy one)

> AoA (screen population covers it somewhat)

omc in the air > janky crossup shit

> 1 hit 214b

> 22x, then you go in and release (so weird that people dont know how to react sometimes)

> far range sweep

just some of the many stupid options.

god i love gimmicks lol.

[susano]

If Labrys is cornered, you are in a really bad spot. Your best option is to block correctly and throw tech appropriately, giving you the window (eventually) to jump or roll out of the corner. If you're lucky, your opponent will do a really bad jump and you can 2B your way out (or just roll/run under him). Someone who knows how bad Labrys' DP is will constantly be looking for, and baiting it, so you have to be really careful in its applications. In awakening, yea, you have access to a legit reversal (and it can also be used to make your DP safer), but in any other situation...it's just blocking and throw teching mostly...

You can burst too, I've watched a lot of Labrys' do that just to reset to neutral and get the hell out of the corner. I've also seen some Labrys player use 236236C with a OMC. I'm not sure how effective that latter option is though.

EDIT: Oops, forgot about guard cancel, that is a viable option.

Was just curious, that's all. Thanks.

[VGJunky]

I wasn't really feeling Naoto or Aigis, so I started messing around in training mode with Labrys and lost track of time. I think I've found a new main. I'm already at that point where I'm watching her combo videos during breaks and filtering out what I want to use. Things I like about Labrys:

1) Red axe D super makes me chuckle

2) j.b hitbox = ambiguous crossups for days

3) Spikes remind me of F-Akiha flame pillars in mbaa so the whole "22a + hold any button to release" felt really natural to me

And most importantly, her accent is so endearing I can't help but smile. Ponytail, red eyes, seifuku-wearing seito kaichou, tragic past, humongous weapon, overly trusting and naive - it all checks out as vital components for the perfect robot girl. Atlus/Arcsys may be getting a little too good at this. They got me good, that's for sure.

Labrys is great

[Setsuna]

Akihiko Match Up Thread updated, I was pretty iffy about all his offensive and defensive options so if you can any input please let me know so I can update it ~ Mitsuru is going to be next (This one will take a while lol). Thank you btw Steelcoil for your summaries on both forums, I apply your input as well in the thread(s) (If I miss any of your info let me know as well)

[SteelCoil]

Don't worry, I'm a training mode monster. This shit is my specialty.

[Tari]

236236c > omc > dumb mixup including!

> throw (the easy one)

> AoA (screen population covers it somewhat)

omc in the air > janky crossup shit

> 1 hit 214b

> 22x, then you go in and release (so weird that people dont know how to react sometimes)

> far range sweep

just some of the many stupid options.

god i love gimmicks lol.

You can also late OMC for air-based mixups, including air dash cross-up j.B, air-turn backdash j.A, etc.

[iora]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0obKOMNgrs&feature=plcp

not letting this go un-noticed, this got uploaded to pktazn's youtube 3 days ago.

if you are anything below 'labrys based god' level, WATCH IT.

(also, if you can view nico vids, the sm######### codes at the end of the vid link to nico videos if you google them. who wants to be the based god that looks at what they contain and see whats going on? looks like vids for particular stuff, like this was a part 1 of 8 video series. or at least help me watch nico vids and i will do it myself. im a scrub at nico lol)

--------

You can also late OMC for air-based mixups, including air dash cross-up j.B, air-turn backdash j.A, etc.

3rd note, trust me, im the king of gimmicks. i know about janky omc mixups lol

[kro_]

Throw is an important option to note because it is Labrys's fastest ground option, so it'll work where 5A won't sometimes (such as Chie's 5C dash cancel--5A will get stuffed, but you can throw her).

How many frames is her throw startup? Actually, how fast are 5a and 2a?

[kro_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0obKOMNgrs&feature=plcp

not letting this go un-noticed, this got uploaded to pktazn's youtube 3 days ago.

if you are anything below 'labrys based god' level, WATCH IT.

(also, if you can view nico vids, the sm######### codes at the end of the vid link to nico videos if you google them. who wants to be the based god that looks at what they contain and see whats going on? looks like vids for particular stuff, like this was a part 1 of 8 video series. or at least help me watch nico vids and i will do it myself. im a scrub at nico lol)

In order to watch those Nico vids, you have to go to Nicovideo redirector. After that, copy this into the search bar http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/ followed by the 'sm' tag for the specific video you want to see. It will then generate a url that can link you directly to the vid without doing these steps. I'll list the ones in that Labrys video here:

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18577655 - This is that "Sakura" combo video. A bit longer than the previous one.

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18517560 - Chie specific combos, midscreen B+D loops after j.b and 2b FC starters, throw combos (all red axe)

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18612662 - 2c loop corner combos after various punishes (red axe combos, green -> red axe combos); also some random ToD combos from Chie, Mitsuru, and a ToD combo on Kanji for Labrys at the end

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18587638 - 2c loop corner combos involving OMB (both red and green axe)

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18718365 - Various green -> red axe combos that involve OMC, OMB, or EX Guillotine axe. This is a must watch imo.

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18517560 - This is a repeat. Guess that guy listed it twice :/

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18650719 - Non-FC corner red axe combos usually involving OMB and repeated 5; also lots of Chie-specific combos and a few crossup resets