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pktazn

[P4A] Yukiko Amagi Gameplay Discussion

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So they took out the unblockable agydyne glitch *shrugs* never used it but it must suck for those who did. anyways any noticeable changes with the new patch, or is she still the same as she was. (haven't played it since i got my xbox fixed)

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So they took out the unblockable agydyne glitch *shrugs* never used it but it must suck for those who did. anyways any noticeable changes with the new patch, or is she still the same as she was. (haven't played it since i got my xbox fixed)

Damn I actually used this. Success was completely based on the ignorance of the opponent. Once they realized what was going on, they easily evasive actioned out of the flame's touch, but I was still able to shorten delays or use tech traps, and well, I guess thats gone

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Damn I actually used this. Success was completely based on the ignorance of the opponent. Once they realized what was going on, they easily evasive actioned out of the flame's touch, but I was still able to shorten delays or use tech traps, and well, I guess thats gone

Yeah, even though it was a great tool; the only way to get some success with it is to trick the opponent into thinking that they are going to block it the second time it comes out, other than that, it'd be useless to waste some meter if they are going to jump away from it.

I actually got over the loss of that thing anyway, so its really no big deal.

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Hey peeps. Just picked up Yukiko. Some questions:

After 236B knockdown into 3D ]B[ 6B stuff, what do you guys do against people letting themselves get hit by agi? I've been playing a bunch of people and they've been responding to me sending out 3D by letting the fireball hit them, mitigating the damage I can do and setting any kind of mixup attempt off that setup to 0. I've tried dashing up and using 5A to combo them after, but if they see me dash up to them, they choose not to let the agi hit them and instead block it. What do I do to punish this? And after 3D ]B[ 6B, what are my branching paths afterwards? What do they beat? Why does the opponent get hit?

What are good anti-roll setups in the corner? What is the optimal punish with these setups?

What are her branching points in pressure? Which ones are the most solid? What do her branching points beat? etc...

If you guys have the answers to this, it would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to experiment with this if someone else already has.

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After 236B knockdown into 3D ]B[ 6B stuff, what do you guys do against people letting themselves get hit by agi? I've been playing a bunch of people and they've been responding to me sending out 3D by letting the fireball hit them, mitigating the damage I can do and setting any kind of mixup attempt off that setup to 0.

Generally speaking, you're getting more damage by them eating the Agi than you would if they just blocked Yukiko's full screen game, which is, admittedly, not a difficult feat. 3D isn't so much about mixup (you really don't have any at that range; if the persona's in the air, block high; once it's on the ground, block low; everyone picks up on this really fast) as it is about maintaining momentum; being sandwiched between you and your persona, and sometimes not being able to see what your persona's doing, creates the chance to get extra hits that can convert into bigger damage than usual (reversed 236B is amazing). Against people who're playing extra safe when you're at that distance, there really isn't a whole lot you can do to open them up; Yukiko isn't that ridiculous of a character. Let them try to come to you while working around your game, capitalize on any mistakes.

I've tried dashing up and using 5A to combo them after, but if they see me dash up to them, they choose not to let the agi hit them and instead block it. What do I do to punish this?

How do you punish blocking? Try throwing, I suppose. Yukiko running in from full screen isn't particularly scary; her better options require setting things up in advance, which you aren't getting if you're running from that distance. Her mixup at neutral (which is essentially the situation being created here) is pretty basic; very limited high/low mixup (AOA is easy to react to, 2D takes forever if not set in advance, no other ground overheads), no special throws. Unless they're sitting under Agi the entire time you're dashing at them, you don't have any particularly good options to open them up; if they are sitting there without you popping it, you can use it for a crossup, but that seems like a very unlikely situation.

More importantly, what characters make you want to go to them at full screen? SLabrys is the only one that really comes to mind. For pretty much everyone else, you can let them come to you while working around being wedged between you and your persona, while you're free to dance around and make their life hell.

What are good anti-roll setups in the corner? What is the optimal punish with these setups?

Depends on how you're spaced. You can try jumping back and coming down with jA if they roll, jB if they don't. If you have an Agi set, rolling isn't a problem if you pop it meaty. If you're setting up an unblockable, you have a bit of a conundrum since an Agi isn't enough to cover the full delay between wakeup and 2D hitting; you can have a gap when they get up or before 2D hits. I prefer the former, as it's safer for the unblockable (by the time you have to commit with a low, they're firmly locked down), letting you freely block/punish wakeup reversals or rolls. You probably won't get much more than a standard combo here.

If you're spaced further out, you have different options, again, depending on the spacing. Maragi can work; either detonate D early where their roll will leave them, or sometimes just throwing out C will tag them due to its slower startup (also works really well with people who like to roll at the gaps in Yukiko's blockstrings). You can also drop 2D so that it'll catch a roll; nice fatal counter with a 5BB SB Agi into whatever for a pickup.

What are her branching points in pressure? Which ones are the most solid? What do her branching points beat? etc...

Yukiko's airtight pressure ends at 5AA. Depending on the opponent, going any further can mean a free reversal, but 5B, 5C, and 2C can be used to create space if you don't expect to/can't be punished for it. What you do from there depends on your opponent. Agi cuts off the pressure, but keeps you safe. 5D can create a lot of space, but can be stuffed/rolled if the opponent's looking for it. 2D is not safe at all. Fire Boost/Break is always an option if you don't have anything else you need to be doing. Maragi is a bit riskier depending on the situation, but an interesting option; as previously mentioned, C will tag attempts to roll through whatever you might've tried to end a blockstring with, whereas D is may catch some maneuvers by surprise (loses to roll though); mixing them up and manual detonations are recommended. For everything else, peruse the various threads and watch more videos; it's a bit unreasonable to ask for a complete breakdown of everything the character can do. Also, fix your character ADD already. And spend more time in training mode =p

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I'll throw my hat into the mix ---

After 236B knockdown into 3D ]B[ 6B stuff, what do you guys do against people letting themselves get hit by agi? I've been playing a bunch of people and they've been responding to me sending out 3D by letting the fireball hit them, mitigating the damage I can do and setting any kind of mixup attempt off that setup to 0. I've tried dashing up and using 5A to combo them after, but if they see me dash up to them, they choose not to let the agi hit them and instead block it. What do I do to punish this?

I'm a little confused by this situation. Normally, you use ]B[ on their wakeup to pin them and force them to block 3D. So even if they let themselves get hit, 3D is coming out. The ]B[ is supposed to stop them from pushing buttons on wakeup, catching them in jump recovery if they wakeup-jump, or catch them in pre-invuln frames if they try to wakeup roll.

Regardless, they're letting themselves get hit by an Agi, which is damage. They're probably taking some damage from the 3D and 6B too. If they're doing this kinda stuff, you can just do another (3D, 6B) to put them in the exact same situation, only this time they're up on their feet and forced to block. You can also opt to start charging fire stocks to actually make them respect Agi's damage if they're gonna let themselves get hit by it intentionally all day. Don't feel inclined to rush up to them and try to combo off of stuff if they're letting you get free damage.

And after 3D ]B[ 6B, what are my branching paths afterwards? What do they beat? Why does the opponent get hit?

You get more 'branching paths' if you talk more about what you can do after the 236B.

3D -> one or two fans: one fan gives you some time to run up a bit and gain a bit of ground to avoid being cornered. Two fans (especially 4B) can catch rolls, which will let you tag them most of the time with 5C, 2C with your Persona on the other side of the screen, into whatever followup you want.

3D -> run up: if you wanna just get in their face or go for a throw.

236C, 3D, run up: A little slower to come out, but can be confusing to some players. 236C hits low, while 3D is the overhead. Opponent avoids this by either rolling (you can catch them on recovery when you run up) or jumping up-back (usually a clean getaway)

6D, 4/5/6BB: Tiny bait for minimum damage if they decide to try and hit your Persona during 6D recovery.

6D, run up: Test if they'll hit your Persona, aim for a counterhit 5A into combo. Sometimes can be worth losing a primer due to OMB combos or other high-damaging stuff.

---

Random stuff to do after fullscreen 3D is blocked:

(2C, 5C) or (5C, 2C). The first option is kind of awkward since 2C hits opponent from behind and 5C will appear in front of the opponent.

Post (2C, 5C) or (5C, 2C) -> 236A, release for chip or trap with delayed release. After 236A, Persona lingers for a moment. Can press more buttons if you want.

-> 236A+B, hold for traps (release one button as you run up or jump at them, then go for a mixup)

-> 4/5/6D (push opponent towards you at varying ranges. Can force a sideswitch or go for more pressure)

What are good anti-roll setups in the corner? What is the optimal punish with these setups?

Depends how deep you are in the corner. If you're all the way in, it's pretty hard to punish with Yuki's normals in my experience.

If you're baiting a roll, however, from about sweep distance, you can jump back, j.1D and try to catch them. Airdash back fan can do the same. 236C/D is also nice, since the pillar lingers and you can detonate it precisely where the opponent will roll into. Just go for a standard combo until you get comfortable with pulling off Maragi loops (off of CH j.1D or CH/non-CH 236C/D).

What are her branching points in pressure? Which ones are the most solid? What do her branching points beat? etc...

I'd say major branching points are like ...

1. Opponent blocks a 1/2/3D. --> lots of examples I gave above.

2. Opponent blocks a 2A --> another 2A? transition to 5A? go for a sweep?

3. Opponent blocks a 5A --> go for a sweep? jump-turnaround-backdash-j.A crossup? airbackdash j.B?

And if you can force an opponent to block or get hit by 236A+B while you're close, you get a lot of nice options.

i.e., 2+AB, 236[A+B], jump, ]A[ on their wakeup, ]B[ as you're about to land and use the explosion to mask either j.A, airdash j.A or (land, 2A).

. . . . 236[A+B], ]A[ on their wakeup, roll or airdash forward, ]B[ as you crossup, 5AA . . .

Just a few things to consider.

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Something else to note for Synthesis; there really is no single way to play Yukiko. You can be more aggressive (kind of high-risk), or you can play it safe and put more emphasis on zoning/being lame. Generally speaking a mix between the two is good because it makes you hard to predict if you balance things right, and Yukiko already has a hard time opening up patient/safe players in neutral without being predictable on top of everything else. While she has a scary pressure game (primarily in the corner), it really isn't absolute; holes will appear, and it's important to learn to recognize when you may lose control of a situation. Yukiko is very momentum-based; her close range game is pretty bad compared to just about everyone else if she doesn't have other things set up to cover her or intimidate the opponent, so if you have a hunch that things may go sour, it's almost never a bad idea to back out and go back to zoning before anything unfortunate happens. In some matchups, the smarter thing to do is be on a perma-lame status and let your opponent kill himself trying to get to you. You've generally been on the aggressive side in other games, so you might find yourself needing to curb those tendences with Yukiko; going in too often can get you in trouble, and Yukiko's defenses are pretty lackluster on the whole.

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Thanks! I'm just considering what can be done in certain situations. And I'm done with my character ADD in this game: Liz is god awful and I can't play her anymore. Yukiko is pretty much everything I want in a character, but I was just trying to get some information so I don't need to spend a million hours experimenting. xD I'm pretty sure I'm just going to do lame shit when I play her. Seems to be the best way to land hits. And Fire Boost.

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What's the general game plan when using Yukiko? From what I can tell, you're just supposed to combo into 236X (unless you're trying to kill the opponent) and play keep-away the whole game. Is this somewhat accurate? Trying to learn this character, and I dunno what I'm doing lol.

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Mostly lots of zoning with some rushdown if you can establish pressure in/close to the corner; how much aggression you can get away with depends on the matchup. Knowing when to back off is important. Covert anti-air hits and Maragi into bigger damage, learn how to set up and make the most of your unblockables. And don't get caught, because you will die.

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With Yukiko you just establish your space with fans and persona placement. Once you let your opponent know you own certain spaces you can play around with hi-low since they should be defending at that point.

Generally I zone and end with Agi B corner push if I feel like I can carry a life lead to victory. Otherwise ending in sweep is very good when combined with certain mix-up.

I don't think Yukiko is weak, but she certainly isn't the strongest character. When everything clicks you will have one annoying character to bother people with. Often times your opponent will defeat themselves through impatience.

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Hi, can anyone here give me a really quick rundown and summary/rating of Yukiko's matchups? Thanks~

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One set up I started doing more is fake unblockable

After the typical knockdown into 2D unblockable usually people expect a 2A after they block 2D so I started doing IAD J.A to catch them off guard and is a nice fuzzy guard. I think it's a effective mix up just in case you mess up your unblockable set up or if people try to jump out of it.

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what should i use as the typical pressure after a typical bnb ending with agi? i'm starting to realize that 3d is getting pretty useless against people with any yukiko knowledge. can't really decide whether b agi or a agi is better anymore.

also anyone know any tips for blocked 5aa agi OMC roll? i want to learn this but its so hard to roll and still hold the agi

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For me I go for sweep oki or after a A agi I do 4D pressure it really depends on the spacing or where my opponent is at on the screen but that's what I usually do. AS for B agi I use IAD, empty jump 2A or grab for a mix up after I let go of the B agi.

For the OMC agi roll you have to let go of the button then hold it again so pretty much a double tap I can't really explain it well lol

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So there's this cool thing that I've been doing in training mode recently, but unfortunately I think it's specific to vs. Narukami.

Midscreen, after a sweep or air hit 5AAA, you jump, air turn, j.6D (not really sure how to notate this since you're technically turned around, but it's the jD option that sends Sakuya out the shortest distance), and either airdash over and let the jD hit, or falling jA. Great, it's a left/right; this part works on everyone.

The Narukami specific mixup is after the crossup option, you can either land 2A -> combo, or land, jump, jA, A Agi -> combo for what seems to be a fuzzy. Though, it seems that you can't really get much damage off of the overhead without spending 50 meter for an OMC or using an OMB. Meterless best I've been able to do is B Agi after the A release :X

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Yeah that was a nice find I saw in your video about it but I just made everything lead into sweep ender so I reset into another mix-up.

I think it's strong enough to be a psuedo-vortex.

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