[P4A] Labrys - Critique Thread

[donkatsu]

Nothing reallly wrong with mashing A (Labrys has one of the best auto-combos in the game) but if you have 25 meter you should try hitconfirming 5AA into 214AB instead of 236B -> AB followup. I'm pretty sure the latter gives you high yellow from green vs guaranteed red if you just hitconfirm one less A. Well my playstyle doesn't push red axe at all so I save my meter hahaha (if I get it, I use it, otherwise w.e)

When I have youtube access... I'll do a real critique lolwork

Yea, what I meant is that I don't want to do 236B > AB, but I end up doing it often because I already did 5AAA by mashing A too much. It's a habit that I'm trying to rid of. I'm making efforts to do the SP guillotine combo instead when I can instead of autocombo or the 236B > AB

[Surf]

That combo route prorate alot too. Better to do sb guillotine. Should take my own advice though. Im never doing it.

Ill improve on my combos and will have more videos for you guys to review by the end of the week

[edollarports]

I watched the Akihiko vid and smidgens of the others so I'll go off that.

Your use of 22B is fine. Lyth is right, though. Labrys's main requirement is that you need to convert every hit into as much as possible, off of any starter (except like FC 5AAA. Who the fuck gets hit by 5AAA?). This extends to using meter only when there's something to be gained for it. For example, if you go for a red axe setup but you won't have meter for a super assuming you land another combo, the red axe setup is worthless. Same for RCing 5AAAA, if you dont have meter for the super after, don't bother. It's only there for the green to red combos.

Edit: I agree with Transient. There's no real reason to use meter unless you either have 75+ meter minimum or you can instantly end their lives. Autocombo is great. 5AAAA gets you meaties on characters with bad defense and 5AAA 236B A gets you carry, and the choice between tech chase or just going back to sitting on your axe, where Lab is happy and notably not dying.

I can't say much on mixups because I didn't really see any given that no one felt like blocking anything, but remember that 5C after 214A can be wakeup superjumped and you can die for it, though.

Against Akihiko, I'd say respect more and to not...DP on wakeup against an IAD. Dangerous stuff. Also pressing buttons against Aki on the ground is dangerous. In the air, you can mash 2B any time he's anywhere except for the one spot where j.C beats 2B. This spot is so small it's pretty much only found accidentally.

I watched a bit of the Yukiko vids, and...you just blew up the mashing. Good job, although I really don't understand what the whole not blocking deal is. 5C in neutral is incredibly dangerous and probably get you killed since it's a free roll.

Also antiair 2A based godtech

But yeah, combos! Past that, you're pretty much set. Everything else for you to improve on is general gameplay and as long as you're hitting people, nothing needs to change.

[TransientFaith]

Looks like I'm beating the dead horse by saying combos. Though I'm sure you know, some sub-"optimal" hints

1. In red axe close to corner, if your 5AA juggling them just end in 5AAA 22X instead of doing autocombo ender for corner oki (labrys's favorite)

2. In red axe fatal j.B if you're too far for a 5AA 5AA 2C B+D setup, you can either dash or go for lv2 land girokasu combos

General gameplay notes:

My gawd you spend meter like crazy (not just for EX moves either)! Naturally the answer is IB!! In the yukiko vids, you were clearly at meter loss and that player made better decisions (sometimes) and had better combos, it would have been brutal

You really love that 5c in these matchups...whatever works for you but like E$ports said, you can get blown up for it off a good read

Not really feeling your use of guard cancel in the yukiko matchup, its a necessity in the akihiko one tho, just my personal opinion (I think you should just let yukiko keep chipping you and IBing for meter)

If you're Labrys and you are the first to DP, and your opponent reversal DPs, you can spend 50 meter to C mojuu and beat the reversal DP (assuming you have it)

That's all I got haha

[Surf]

Edit: I agree with Transient. There's no real reason to use meter unless you either have 75+ meter minimum or you can instantly end their lives. Autocombo is great. 5AAAA gets you meaties on characters with bad defense and 5AAA 236B A gets you carry, and the choice between tech chase or just going back to sitting on your axe, where Lab is happy and notably not dying.

I dont like that ender. I'll use it extremely rarely. Like in the Yukiko match where I used it and locked him down in the corner with the j.D's. But thats about as far as I go. The other Labrys was doing it alot and after our set I just told him to stick to getting a knockdown instead. Its good carry, but Im not willing to let them get a chance to get away if I manage to get a confirm.

I can't say much on mixups because I didn't really see any given that no one felt like blocking anything, but remember that 5C after 214A can be wakeup superjumped and you can die for it, though.

I know, but they dont. And as long as they dont, Ill keep using it.

Against Akihiko, I'd say respect more and to not...DP on wakeup against an IAD. Dangerous stuff. Also pressing buttons against Aki on the ground is dangerous. In the air, you can mash 2B any time he's anywhere except for the one spot where j.C beats 2B. This spot is so small it's pretty much only found accidentally.

This particular Aki player plays like a psychopath and I know him well so sometimes I screw around with him. Those FC CB Hooks were just me mashing. But against someone else I dont know I wouldnt do that.

Also antiair 2A based godtech

lol Your the only one that saw that

I watched a bit of the Yukiko vids, and...you just blew up the mashing. Good job, although I really don't understand what the whole not blocking deal is. 5C in neutral is incredibly dangerous and probably get you killed since it's a free roll.

Those 5C's were pretty much just instinct coming in as Yukiko, Ariadne should never be called in neutral against her. I was always wincing when I pressed C or D by accident against her.

Looks like I'm beating the dead horse by saying combos. Though I'm sure you know, some sub-"optimal" hints

1. In red axe close to corner, if your 5AA juggling them just end in 5AAA 22X instead of doing autocombo ender for corner oki (labrys's favorite)

2. In red axe fatal j.B if you're too far for a 5AA 5AA 2C B+D setup, you can either dash or go for lv2 land girokasu combos

Well, the thing is I know the combos. Like the ones you just mentioned. But Im not confirming into them. When I stopped playing the game I knew a good about of bnbs and optimal confirms. Then I didnt play for about 6 months. Then I just went back into it without practicing those combos again. So I need to grind them back into my play. Didnt notice how bad it was until you guys pointed it out though.

My gawd you spend meter like crazy (not just for EX moves either)!

Really? Didnt think it spend meter that much. Didnt really use EX movs often either. Its mostly me just rapid canceling things, but even then I dont think it was that much.

Naturally the answer is IB!!

My defense is bad so I dont attempt to IB.

You really love that 5c in these matchups...whatever works for you but like E$ports said, you can get blown up for it off a good read

Yes I do, j.D as well. And some 5B here and there. I get blown up for it sometimes but not often enough for me to just not use them anymore

[Setsuna]

Definitely not my best play considering I haven't played since FR16 but I'm always having trouble with the Aigis match up regardless (my opponent is pretty much the only Aigis experience I ever get), aside my difficulty to deal with Origia mixups does anyone have any input on this match ?

[Surf]

Hmm. You were way too agressive in the matchup. Saw you CH countless times, way too much air apporaches and j.B. Like Yukiko just be patient during neutral. Aigis's keepaway isnt as good as Yukikos but Aigis but she can end the round 10x as fast. Whenever shes not in Orgia just stay on the ground. And when she is in Orgia run away, dont even allow her to get you blocking. Labrys's DP is completely useless on Orgia. The only thing it would blow up is a Sweep attempt. If they jB'd its a free punish. If you do end up blocking, the only thing i can suggest to you is to pick a God and pray.

I think chain knuckle is effective against 2B but I dont know, may seem too risky. I forgot if her bullets disappear if shes hit during the active frames.

I know we spoke about it earlier but if your opponent keeps disrespecting you after they block 5AA, frametrap them with 5AAA given that they didnt IB. If they did, go into 214B to frametrap instead. It means the end of your pressure if they didnt press anything and blocked it, but its better than them gaining the momentum.

Like me, your combos could use alot of work. Neutral shouldnt be as telegraphed either. You react the same way in alot of situations. And why the C moujuu after DP. Why not Gears

All i can say for now

[edollarports]

As with most Lab's matchups, you want this match to be played at neutral. The optimal range is just close enough that you can stuff Orgia support missiles (214C/D?) before they come out. Running at Aigis is incredibly risky, but her approach here is limited too. No need to go in, just sit on your axe.

Once you're at optimal range, there's not too much Aigis can do. Aerial approaches lose to 2B, megido is slow and punishable via IB throw. Nothing else. On the ground, Aigis's ground options are nothing spectacular other than 2B, which aside from being faster and bigger than Lab 5C, shares its weaknesses, mostly that you can roll it and murder Aigis for it. If you see 2B, rolling it will get you a punish of your choice if you react quickly enough. Try not to yomi it unless it's on autopilot because the whore hits as hard as you do and actually can keep momentum going. If Aigis randomly uses bullets, you have to respect those unless you can EX chain through--this is fairly risky, but it's on you. If you find yourself at fullscreen, either because pushed out by bullets or she's out of Orgia trying to get it back, you can throw down a spike and block bullets for it, giving you a way slightly in.

On offense, don't get overzealous. A DP from Aigis that switches her into Orgia will probably make her dead. Use anti-mash setups and see if you can bait anything- if the Aigis player respects those (any player really) it's hard to hit them if they know the matchup, which is why hitting her in neutral is so important.

Surf is right on defense. Knocked down by Aigis? You're probably just dead. You can IB sweep and mash 5A on the j.B, or you can just block the entire goddamn string. Anything she does will lead to 4.5k+ if she's got 25 meter so just be ready to have a terrible day.

[redsilversnake]

If you do end up blocking, the only thing i can suggest to you is to pick a God and pray.

Well, as an atheist, I prefer just trying to yomi them. :P

Seriously, though, it seems that a lot of Aegis players online tend to follow rote blockstrings in Orgia mode, so it's not too hard to block their mix-up as long as you know what pattern they prefer. Better ones will try to, well, mix it up, but the average one will typically just blow their Orgia meter, so they either won't get as good a combo if they do manage to hit you or will try to back off to deactivate, and neither is as bad as the alternative.

I know we spoke about it earlier but if your opponent keeps disrespecting you after they block 5AA, frametrap them with 5AAA given that they didnt IB.

lolwut? 5AAA is no frametrap. Most of the cast can DP or even just use 5A to hit Labrys in the start-up, even without IB.

[Surf]

lolwut? 5AAA is no frametrap. Most of the cast can DP or even just use 5A to hit Labrys in the start-up, even without IB.

Could you, not do that. A simple statment is fine

They can dp it on normal block. But they cant A it unless they IB. Which isnt too hard to do. And if they do IB 214B blows them up. And if they DP. You can just block depending on what dp it is.

[TransientFaith]

"can DP" is not really much of an argument. It's as strong as saying "can bait DPs" because as a Labrys player you WANT them to DP and you want even more to bait said DPs cuz that's easy damage and a braindead punish. But yes, 5AAA is a legit frametrap. It just doesn't give you anything.

On topic, you really did get blown up a lot with 5AA dash... might be a good idea to switch up to 5A dash cancel (rising j.A, rising j.C, cross-up j.B, blah blah blah) will watch more later when time allows

[donkatsu]

Is 2A > 5B not safe? I kept getting DPed last night against an Aigis player between 2AA > 5B. I think guillotine can be DPed in the block string, but didn't think I can get DPed going from 2A to 5B. Maybe I got DPed on the Sweep instead. Maybe it was a netplay lag thing? I should have recorded that match.

[Surf]

Theres a gap between 2A > 5B. Its a frametrap but very dp'able

[toanenadiz]

2A (and 5A as well) has 14 frames of blockstun. 5B has 15 frames of start-up. Labrys doesn't have very many tight gatlings.

[donkatsu]

I guess I have to start conditioning myself to not do 5B after blocked 5A/2A... well at least when I start getting DPed for it. After 1k+ matches online, I'm still finding out something new. I'm such a scrub

[Surf]

Its effective if you go into 5A > 5B at the tip of the 5A. Most DP attempts would fail at that range

[Tecta1Eastside]

Definitely not my best play considering I haven't played since FR16 but I'm always having trouble with the Aigis match up regardless (my opponent is pretty much the only Aigis experience I ever get), aside my difficulty to deal with Origia mixups does anyone have any input on this match ?

@9:10 You could have won the match but you did the wrong combo.

You can do [Tsurugi]> Grab > release Tsurugi> charged 5B > 2B>jc>j.BB>j.C etc into Super for the win.

[Tsurugi]> Grab > release Tsurugi> charged 5B > 2C> 214B>236236D if you felt like Mystic's burst gauge was going to be filled up all the way.

@6:24

You can can do DP>awakening Gears>2B>sj>j.B>j.C>j.214B for a safer/easier combo.

If you are trying to hitconfirm into the CH DP then delay the 236236C/D.

Each super has their own timing though for this to work though.

@1:37

2A>2A>5A>EX Mode change into ect isnt a blockstring after the EX Mode Change. Just 5A Aigis out of EX mode change so you dont have to block the additional orgia mix-ups.

If Aigis whiffs a DP, then you can CH 5B her for over 3k on green axe/4k yellow axe starter and etc with no meter cost.

Thats better than 5A CH combo hit punish.

You played really jumpy which gets you hit by 2B and makes you predictable alot. You can use Labrys's Persona to stop Aigis' orgia movement as long you space it out right and make a correct read on her movement. 2B also helps if they dash straight in. Instead of going for tsurugi oki on yellow axe just combo into chain knuckle for dmg. You can end the match alot quicker that way if they dont burst since you build more meter and do more dmg. If someone ever does run into 5AAA (the 3rd hit) you can pick up the hit with chain knuckle>A+B followup for about 3k on higher depending on the axe gauge. On Green starter you get 2.7k. On yellow its 3k and etc. It becomes worse with a burst but 5AAA frametrap situation wont happen often sadly.

I wish you play the game more Setsuna.

[TransientFaith]

You played really jumpy which gets you hit by 2B and makes you predictable alot.

This.

It looks like you were second guessing yourself a lot with those DP > C mojuu cancels

As Tecta said, 5B CH is optimal but you have to wait until they land. 5A is more of a safe option (jump cancel to bait bursts, against aigis run up 5a with let you react to super if they do it earlier since you don't have to commit to it quite as early)

[Lythium]

Setsuna, it seems like you were really impatient in those matches.

I'd say you need to work on your defense. I'm guessing Aigis had you scared, but I'd practice blocking some Orgia mixups in training mode, just to get a feel for them and what she can do. You also got caught pressing buttons a lot. Your hitconfirming could use some work as well, I didn't see much outside of autocombo and the occasional air combo.

[Setsuna]

Thank you for all the feedback guys:

• As most of you have mentioned my combos are really lacking and was something I was going to work on, luckily Tect posted his Optimal Combo thread so once I have time I'm going to be going over all of those for future use.
  
• I am pretty telegraph and ALOT of people have told me this when I asked for feedback and in all honesty I just don't know what to do so I do what I'm used to and force my way in.
  
• Alot of you mentioned me getting CH alot and pushing buttons, as I mentioned I have very low Aigis experience (probably the less amount of experience against her along with Yukiko and Naoto). I didn't know when I could poke out or if I could poke out so I just tried when I thought I could and got blown up.
  
• My defense is pretty bad, DC was commenting on it as well on stream but Origia mixups blow me up even at just the initial starter. I don't know how I should go about practicing my defense against the mix up and on alot of occasions it feels like my arms aren't reacting along with what my eyes see.

Like me, your combos could use alot of work. Neutral shouldnt be as telegraphed either. You react the same way in alot of situations. And why the C moujuu after DP. Why not Gears

In my match before this I fought a Kanji and did DP into C Moujuu alot during the match when they would react to my DP with their own, it was probably still in my system. You probably saw it alot because I thought he would react to the DP with his own and I tried to counter is right after with Moujuu. Also my mind completely forgot about Gears at the time, alot of the time nowadays I find myself getting blown up using it lol

@9:10 You could have won the match but you did the wrong combo.

You can do [Tsurugi]> Grab > release Tsurugi> charged 5B > 2B>jc>j.BB>j.C etc into Super for the win.

[Tsurugi]> Grab > release Tsurugi> charged 5B > 2C> 214B>236236D if you felt like Mystic's burst gauge was going to be filled up all the way.

@6:24

You can can do DP>awakening Gears>2B>sj>j.B>j.C>j.214B for a safer/easier combo.

If you are trying to hitconfirm into the CH DP then delay the 236236C/D.

Each super has their own timing though for this to work though.

@1:37

2A>2A>5A>EX Mode change into ect isnt a blockstring after the EX Mode Change. Just 5A Aigis out of EX mode change so you dont have to block the additional orgia mix-ups.

If Aigis whiffs a DP, then you can CH 5B her for over 3k on green axe/4k yellow axe starter and etc with no meter cost.

Thats better than 5A CH combo hit punish.

I wish you play the game more Setsuna.

@9:10

That was a misinput actually I had intended to do the combo you have listed out lol

@6:24

See Surfs reply

@1:37

I had no idea we can punish that safely, thanks for the heads up.

I do need to play more I've just been doing other things lately taking a break from FGs and trying to situation myself irl. In the coming weeks I should be playing alot more.

[Sadeyo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6BnFhAESqI&feature=youtu.be

My performance after a day or two of practice. Not the best of actions but enough for me to be slightly happy about how it came out, I know there's much to work with but I'll take any to all advice I can get. Sorry for being late to the party, I had to reach my goal on BB before I could focus on this game.

[Surf]

Forgot to ask if you actually started playing or not.

Maybe a critique video was a bit too early since you said you just started playing her but Ill try to mention a couple things. The first thing you couldve noticed was his obvious and refusal to be on the defensive on wakeup. Wither it was wakeup throw, dp, roll, mash, etc. He didnt respect any of your wakeup options. And being directly near him on wakeup didnt help that fact and showed him you werent willing to respect his either. Spacing out or using 5C oki wouldve stopped most of his disrespect. His oki was very weak and wasnt being implemented properly so you couldve delayed teched and got away from him. You did it one of the first times and avoided the setups but then didn't do it again. It seemed like whenever you lost neutral or an advantageous situation you were unsure how to react and let him do as he pleased. His play was pretty wild and once he got the offensive he didnt stop, nor did he stop his offensive even when he was supposed to be on the defensive. In cases like these just take the passive aggressive approach. Stop his wild offense by controlling space on the screen with hitboxes of your own. 5C is good for this when used correctly. j.B's low to the ground and out of his 2B range would be effective as well. 5B and j.D get some honorable mentions but I wouldnt use that them much at all in this matchup during neutral.

Working on your confirms should be paramount before going back on netplay. At least have her bnbs down to memory. And there are a lot of videos and Techs combo thread to help you out with that. Things that would great to learn first are

5AA loop in Yellow and Red

Air combo into D Moujuu, it takes some practice to get the feeling down

CH DP combo (CH DP > 5A > 2B > sj j.B > j.C > j.214B)

CH 5B confirm (CH 5B > 5C > 2C > Full charge DP > 5AAA > 214B)

[Shion]

Hey guys, would like some feedback or tips on how to up my game. Played in this local tourney yesterday and placed 2nd.. But the guy who won still seems several levels above me.

I know I did a lot of stupid DPs, this is mainly because I do not know the Kanji matchup at all. Simply no-one plays him in EU netplay, and I don't know anyone offline either. I mostly did it to try and stop his command grab.

The commentary is in Dutch, so feel free to mute the videos. Keep in mind that we've only had the game for a few months in Europe, so the general level of play is much lower. Thanks!

Winner finals (me vs Kanji): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awMGVzE7bls

Loser finals (me vs Liz): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBmR2RyrpvY

Grand finals (me vs Kanji again): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5TWyg1HtM0

[MotokoChill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6BnFhAESqI&feature=youtu.be

My performance after a day or two of practice. Not the best of actions but enough for me to be slightly happy about how it came out, I know there's much to work with but I'll take any to all advice I can get. Sorry for being late to the party, I had to reach my goal on BB before I could focus on this game.

You did well by trying to stay in the air. I'd say just work on trying to guess mixups a lot more.

Would you like to fight sometime?

[Tecta1Eastside]

Hey guys, would like some feedback or tips on how to up my game. Played in this local tourney yesterday and placed 2nd.. But the guy who won still seems several levels above me.

I know I did a lot of stupid DPs, this is mainly because I do not know the Kanji matchup at all. Simply no-one plays him in EU netplay, and I don't know anyone offline either. I mostly did it to try and stop his command grab.

The commentary is in Dutch, so feel free to mute the videos. Keep in mind that we've only had the game for a few months in Europe, so the general level of play is much lower. Thanks!

Winner finals (me vs Kanji): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awMGVzE7bls

Loser finals (me vs Liz): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBmR2RyrpvY

Grand finals (me vs Kanji again): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5TWyg1HtM0

Good job at getting 2nd place. It was fun to watch.

If you feel Kanji is gonna command grab you, its safer to jump instead of DPing.

If you get paralyzed, hops avoid his command grab.

Kanji's Aerial command grab can be ducked for a CH 5B punish.

Kanji's j.C is unsafe on IB. 5A punish works on IB.

Kanji's j.C is can FC Labrys doing 2B though.

Avoid IADing alot to avoid his persona command grabs.

Most of Labrys Corner FC are 5AA>5AA>2C times X into 214B>236236C if you wanna keep axe meter.

FC 5A>5B>2C loop works. FC J.B>2B>2C loops also.

Its best to keep Kanji out of close range with Labrys 5A/2A spacing.

If Kanji gets in, its a guessing game between command grabs.

You can try to carry over more axe meter when you have a huge life lead.