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ludwig van

[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Combo Thread "My skills have been honed!" (Updated 1/20/2013)

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So, i'm dicking around in the lab right now looking for C trap loops, and it's pretty fun. It requires a fatal counter, the corner, and 75 meter, so obviously it would only be used for swaging purposes, but if someone smarter than me wants to play with it, heres what I have so far.

Off a fatal:

236B~D>236AB~D>236236D>214D>5B>5C>2[C]>5AA>236A~D>(d trap hits)>J.214C x9

It's important to make sure you're jumping off the ground each time, if you do a double jump and place a trap too high, the next one wont connect. I'm not sure how many times you can do it because my executions shotty, but I think it will kill if done right. I hope I wrote the executions correctly, have fun bros!

EDIT: Ok, you can actually double jump as long as you place the trap in like the exact same spot as usual, but it may fuck up your rhythm, so i'd recommend you just try to land each time.

EDIT 2: I was able to do it 9 times and got 6.6k damage in all

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Im new to the game and have a horribly hard time to connect C in a juggle after jB, jC. The C either connects to late so the opponent could tech before it or the jC relaunches the opponent too high making C whiff. Has anyony some tips for me on how to time this?

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Can you list the full combo in particular please? I probably know what you're talking about but it would be helpful so I can have a more complete picture.

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Can you list the full combo in particular please? I probably know what you're talking about but it would be helpful so I can have a more complete picture.

236B, OMC, 66, 5C, IAD, jB, jC, 5C would be the combo im having trouble with. The 5C when im back on the ground mostly whiffs because the jC relaunches too high. If i then try to delay the jB to get to the ground faster after jC it just cancels the jC since im too near to the ground already. Funny thing is i dont have that problem with the 5C after jC in a combo like 5B, 2AB, 236AB, 236236D, 214D, 236A~D, 2[C], 5C, IAD, jB, jC, 5C, 236B~D. That works pretty much all the time. Its only the jB, jC, 5C after either the OMC combo off of 236B or the traps.

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Landing 5C in the IAD combos is height dependent on when it will combo. It's hard to say for sure what exactly you should be doing without a video example, but here are some tips to keep in mind:

-Make sure to get the dash far enough after cancelling the 236B. Sometimes if you don't dash far enough, you won't get at the right height.

-Delay the jB after the IAD, but not so much that your jC won't come out. You can also replace jB with jA for easier timing and similar damage.

-With the combo you listed in particular, 236B~D, dash 5C won't connect on grounded opponents midscreen, outside of a couple characters and isn't very practical. It will however, work on airborne opponents due to extra hitstun. Try practicing 5B >5C >236B~D >dash 5C >IAD delay jA > jC >5C > 236A~D with the training dummy on Jump.

Also practice 214D (hit) dash 5C > IAD delay jA > jC > 5C > 236B~D > dash 5C > IAD > jA > jC > 5C > 236A~D

as well as 214C (hit) > 5C > 236B~D > dash 5C > IAD > jA > jC > 5C > 236A~D

To get the hang of the timing for IAD combos.

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Thanks for the help guys. Im trying the combos you mentioned now until i get the timing down. Thanks again!

Edit: Ok, dont ask me how or why but now that im using jA instead of jB it works all the time. Thanks a ton not just for the tips but how quick you replied aswell!

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j.A is usually easier to use because of its downward hit box so you can get the combo to connect even if they are pretty low. j.B's hitbox makes it so that you have to have the opponent above Naoto's head to make it work as opposed to j.A where you can have the opponent at the same height as Naoto's standing animation.

Corner: short hop j.A j.B j.D land 5AA 5C 236B~D 236A~D. Almost 2k if I remember correctly. Timing to get the 5A link is weird, I dont really know how to describe it. A lot of the times I get it, but sometimes it just drops on me. Probably has a lot do with how low your j.D hits. If you can hit this, its a nice combo to get some decent damage off of corner oki. If its too hard or you just aren't getting it consistently mid match then consider switching to j.A j.B 236A or j.A j.B j.D 236A, whichever you may find easier. Adding the j.D makes it real easy to confirm whether you hit your opponent or not, the problem with it is that it wont combo on standing though.

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Oh cool I didn't know you could actually combo off of a short hop. The timing for the 5AA link isn't too hard after some practice. I will have to incorporate that into my game.

On the subject of jD, I was messing around with it earlier and you can actually get a full combo off a lowest possible jD. EX: IAD back jD, land 5D, IAD jA, jC, 5C, 236B~D, 5C, 236A~D, etc. Could be useful to get people to respect your IAD strings, IAD'ing back to neutral after like a 5C or something, or maybe attempt a jD CH throw bait.

EDIT: It seems like microdashing before the short hop helps make the 5AA timing more lenient. Also, SMP off of short hop setup:

50 meter: 2A+C jA, jB , jD, land 5AA, 5C, Mudoon, 214D, 236A~B(1)~D, 236B~Dx11, 236A~D (7.2k)...or end with 236B~Dx11, 236B~Cx5 for 7.7k.

25 meter and OMB: 2A+C jB, jD, land 5AA, 236A~B(1) > OMB, 2[C], 2B, 236A+B, 236B~D xN (7.2k, 7.7k with C-shots)

Also it's important to note that all of these short hop combos work on crouching opponents only, so make sure the dummy is set to Crouch while practicing.

EDIT: Wow, forgot to put the 2 for short hop and jB instead of jA. I am the notation master. :v:

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50 meter: 2A+C jA, jC , jD, land 5AA, 5C, Mudoon, 214D, 236A~B(1)~D, 236B~Dx11, 236A~D (7.2k)...or end with 236B~Dx11, 236B~Cx5 for 7.7k.

And wait, you can combo j.A into j.C off the short hop? I thought you'd be too low to the ground for j.C to come out in time. Did you mean j.B after j.A or am I missing out on something amazing?

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Naoto in the corner, 214214A~C FC starter:

walk forward a pixel, 2A 2B 5C 2[C] slight delay 5B 5C IAD j.C delay j.D land 5AA 236BxN ~7.8k, 50% bar

2B 5C IAD j.C j.D EX Trap, j.B, (C trap hits), land, 236A~B(1)-D, (D Trap hits), 236BxN, ~9.5k, 75%

2B 5C IAD j.A j.C land j.B OMB D-Trap, 236A~B(1)-D, 5B 236BxN, over 8K for sure, don't remember the damage on this. 50% + OMB

Midscreen: 214214A~C FC, OMB, 2A 2B 5C 2[C] 5B 5C IAD j.B j.C land 236AB, 236BxN 75% + OMB

A little past midscreen or at least 3/4s to the corner: 214214A~C FC, OMB (2A) 2B 5C 2[C] 5B 5C IAD j.C delay j.D land 5AA 236BxN. You can omit the 2A if you'd like. Its just meant to keep the height somewhat consistent and doesn't really hurt the damage much. 50%+ OMB

Basically, just the same combos that i've posted before, just with the Houtenjin starter. Great confirms for when you kick someone for trying to safe jump you since its so fast that unless they do a almost frame perfect safe jump, the kick will be fast enough to hit them out of their normal.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRxLoyu1qgo

Footage of Silence SMPs from Denpa.

First combo goes as follows:

D Trap, dash 5C, IAD j.A/j.B j.C land 66 5C 214A~Cx5 Mudoon, dash up C trap, 5D set, wait, 236A(first hit only) 236236A, wait until Naoto starts falling from the super, 5D, dash 236BxN. Does 8k before silence wears off. Doing 66 5C makes it more consistent for your Mudoon to hit.

Second silence SMP only works on Teddie:

(j.C) 5B 5C 2C Mudoon D trap, (2B) 236A~D, C trap, 5D set, 236A(first hit only) 236236A, wait until Naoto starts falling from the super, 5D, dash 236BxN

Heres a video of the SMP meterless punish vs Narukami DP Random Naoto was talking about a couple posts back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBuLCqaP3T8

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AoA~C (FC) > HJC jB > OMB > dash 2[C] > 5C > IAD jA > jC > land EX Fangs > 236B~DxN (4.6k, 4.95k with shots)

-AoA launcher into 25%/OMB route. Thought of this today when I landed an AoA midscreen when an opponent was lower on health, but not quite close enough to the corner for D followup. Only need 5 meter and a burst to start.

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Heres a video of the SMP meterless punish vs Narukami DP Random Naoto was talking about a couple posts back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBuLCqaP3T8

Double post, but this shit is godly. You can even do it midscreen:

(DP blocked) 214C (CH) > step/dash 214D > dash under 5AA (should turn around) > 236A~B(1)~D > dash 2A/2B > 5C > IAD jB > jC > land 236B~D (may need to dash 5C afterward), 236B~DxN (6k, 6.5 w/shots, 39 meter gain)

...but it will "only" build 39 meter before hitstun deteriorates, so you need at least 11 meter to add the Mudoon at the end.

EDIT: The Teddie silence combo can be changed just a bit for a 50 meter only version:

:ballTD: only: 5B >5C > 2C > Mudoon > 214D > 236A~D > 214C > 5D > 236A~D > 5DD > immediate 5AA > 236B~DxN (8.5k, 9k with shots, just under 9.5k with Silence shot, and kills with Awakening super, A, D)

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Hit the lab and came up with some more stuff; let's keep killing people off retarded confirms.

236A~B(1)> OMB > Mudoon

So after grinding the Yu DP punish, I began thinking, "what other ways can I build enough meter for Mudoon?". Using regular confirms into 236A~B(1) > OMB > loop grants about 4-6k with just OMB. But, if you have at least 35 meter, you can build enough meter for Mudoon off simple high/low confirms:

High mixup, need at least 28 meter to start:

(low airdash) jB, jA, (dash) 5AA, Sweep, 236A~B(1) > OMB, (dash) charge 2[C], 5B, 5C, 236B~D xN (6.1k, 6.6 w/Shots)

(at 6.1k)...Mudoon, 236B~DxN (8.5k, 9k w/Shots)

(Awakening w/50 more meter)...after 8.5k, Awakening super > (immediate) A...A...A...C/D (10.2k)

Low mixup, need at least 35 meter to start:

(low) 2A, 5AA, Sweep, 236A~B(1) > OMB, (dash) charge 2[C], 5B, 5C, 236B~D xN (4.7k, 5.2 w/Shots)

(at 4.7k)...Mudoon, 236B~DxN (7.1k, 7.5k w/Shots)

(Awakening w/50 more meter)...after 7.1k, Awakening super > (immediate) A...A...A...C/D (8.3k)

You can interchange 5B before or after the OMB for a better hitconfirm, but be careful pushing them too far back for 236A to connect fully. These combos require you to be somewhat close to the corner.

The main point of this is that even after a simple Autocombo into Safejump/mixup near the start of the round (maybe after zoning them with bullets for some meter), you'll already have enough resources to almost kill a character, or at least get them to use their Burst. You'll have to judge depending on how much meter you have, and if they have their burst/how long it will take to refill (like always), but I think these will make Naoto's pressure a bit more threatening along with her standard setups.

Maxing out Throw damage with OMB

Dunno if anyone has messed around with this much, but you can actually OMB Naoto's throw on the first hit (no followup), for much better damage off a throw. With OMB > Mudoon, you can get 7-9k off a throw, but it is quite a commitment of resources, so I would only use these if the opponent has no burst and you want to make sure they're dead.

(universal) Throw (no followup) > OMB > Mudoon > daash > 214D > Sweep > 236A~B(1)~D > 5AA > 5C > 236B~D xN (7.3k, 7.8k w/C-shots)

(Awakening w/50 more meter)...after 7.3k, Awakening super > (immediate) A...A...A...C/D (8.5k)

(everyone but Teddie, but harder to time) Throw (no followup) > OMB > Mudoon > daash > 214C > 214D > 236A~B(1)~D > immediate 2[C] > 2B > 5C > 236B~D xN (8.3k, 8.7k w/Shots)

(Awakening w/50 more meter)...Awakening super > immediate A...A...A...C/D (9,990, absolute max damage off a Throw?)

EX Trap SMPs

Just found this video on b1argh's channel, dunno if anyone has posted it already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BflSisDrNY

But it has several 25 meter EX trap SMP variations. Some of these are nice to tack on some damage to corner starters without Mudoon or Burst:

5AA > 5B > 5C > 236B~D > 2A > 5C > IAD jB > jC > EX trap > land 236A~D (C trap hits) > 214D > 236A~D (both D traps hit) > 236A~D (3.9k)

5B > 5C > 236B~D > 2A > 5C > 7jump airdash jB > jC > EX trap > land 236A~D (C trap hits) > 2[C] > 236A~D (d trap hits) > [214D, 236A~D]x2 > 214D, 236A~B(1)~D, 236A~D (5.4k)

:ballTD: only - 5B > 5C > 236B~D > 2A > 5C > IAD jA > jC > EX trap > land 5A > 5C (C trap hits) > 236A~D (D trap hits) > [214D, 236A~D]x2, 214D, 236A~B(1)~D, 236A~D (4.7k)

5D (CH) > dash 5B > 5C > 7jump airdash jB > jC > EX trap > land 236A~D (both traps hit) > 2B > 236B~Dx11 (8.3k, 8.5k w/Shots)

:ballMT: DP punish - (DP blocked) > 5A CH > 5C > 7jump airdash jB > jC > EX trap > land 236A~B(1)~D (both traps hit) > 2[C] > 5B/2B > 236B~Dx8, 236A~D (5.7k)

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Very nice combos there Zeromus, I really like the idea of the Throw OMB combos. I also really like the 214C CH starter SMP midscreen, I have to grind that out more because I'm not 100% with that yet.

So as of now I'm kinda burnt out in terms of finding Naoto tech (again lol), but here's one last thing I'll share before I go into a lab hiatus until something hits me randomly one day to tinker with:

Close confirm, near the corner/or in the corner: 5B 5C 236B~D dash 5C IAD j.A/j.B j.C land 5C 214A~Cx5 Mudoon D Trap, 5AA, 236A~D (D Trap, 236A~D)xN, 6.7k

Same situation: 5AA 5C 236B~D dash 5C 214A~Cx5 Mudoon D Trap, 5B/2A 5C IAD j.A/j.B j.C land 5C 236A~D (D trap, 236A~D) xN Probably close to 5k.

Basically these are SMPs for when you hit your opponent in such a way that you use 236B early, but still want to go into Mudoon anyway and get damage on them. This commonly comes up late in the rounds when you get a random punish/hit and need the 236B to get good carry and don't have 75% meter to do the job.

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Can't believe I never thought about doing 214D>236A... SMPs off 236B~D confirms before; gotta practice those. I always defaulted into a vanilla Mudoon combo lol.

EDIT: Adding a burst (C shots > OMB > Mudoon, or just Sweep > OMB after the Mudoon) increased damage to 8.3k, 8.5k with B shots at the end, so you can kill the 8.5k or less club at full health.

For the 5AA confirm, use 5AA > 5C > 236B~D > 2B > 5C > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214D > sweep > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (5.6k, 7k with Burst)

I'm really liking these because you only need 25 meter to start thanks to C shots, and if you still have a Burst, you can just run it back if they've already been hit a couple times.

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Hmm, that looks more stable then what I have so I'll try that one out instead. And yeah, thats the nice perk of those combos too. Anything that includes shots gives a nice chunk of meter. But yeah, with these SMPs random confirms into 236B can lead to more respectable damage than the usual 4-5k that the vanilla combo would scrape in.

Also I kinda tweaked the Teddie only combo you posted and came up with this:

5B 5C 2C Mudoon D-Trap, Sweep, 236A~D, C Trap, 5D, 236A~D, 5DD hits, 2B 236BxN. Does 9.1k, adding the C-shots kills him.

You can also tweak this combo to work off throw and other stuff too. This might become the new go to "hard" combo for him since you can't do the traditional 214C 214D 236A path off Mudoon that usually kills the cast.

Random AOA example: AOA-D FC 5B 5C Mudoon D trap, 236A~D, C trap, 5D, 236A~D, 5DD hits, 236BxN.

EDIT AGAIN: Never mind, this combo path isn't that hot and it doesn't work off throw unless you do Throw OMB path. AOA its best to just do a simple SMP combo to get the same if not more damage.

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That's too bad, but still, nice to be able to kill Teddie off a 5B hit at least. That character can die in a fire lol.

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Hit the lab for more practical confirms to start the meter gain > 214D, 236A~D loops. This should be the last solution for those awkward situations where you get a hitconfirm near the end of the round, but can only do a meterless bnb into oki. Not good enough, I want people dead lol.

For the damage listed using OMB, you have to use C shots x5 > OMB, although you can add the burst in at other points for less damage. Adding a B shot at the end adds 200 damage to each of these. Meter required is listed before the combo, but when in doubt, these will all work if you have at least 25 meter beforehand. Also, you can make these Burst safe if you have at least 75 meter and a Burst, by doing C~Shots > Silence Shots > OMB. You can even use the same button priority trick for Mudoon to buffer in the Silence super (C, C, A+C, A+C, A+C...) without getting an accidental Hamaon. You won't get as much total damage as 100 meter + Silence OMB SMPs, but the Burst-safe damage is about the same (4-5k), so something worth noting.

(near corner, need 24 meter to start) low airdash jB > 5AA > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214D > sweep > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (5.5k, 6.9k with OMB)

(near corner, need 24 meter to start) 2A > 5AA > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214D > sweep > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (4.3k, 5k with OMB)

(near corner, crouching opponent only, need 21 meter to start) Short Hop jB > jD > land 5AA > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > 214A~C > Mudoon > 214D > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (5.6k, 6.9k with OMB)

(near corner, need 19 meter to start) AoA~D (FC) > 5B > 5C > IAD jA/B > jC > 5C > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214D > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (4.5k, 5k with OMB)

(near corner, need 19 meter to start) B+D > forward shot > 5B > 5C > 236B~D > dash 5C > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214D > 5AA > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (4.7k)

(near corner, need 19 meter to start) raw C trap hit > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > IAD jA/B > jC > 5C > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214D > sweep > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (7.5k, 9.1k with OMB, Burst safe up to 7k with Silence > OMB)

(corner C trap oki, low confirm) C trap hit > 2A > 5AA > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > 214A~C > Mudoon > 214D > sweep > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (7.2k)

(Player start position to corner, need 18 meter to start) 5DD hit > dash 5C > delay 236B~D > dash 5C > IAD jA/B > jC > 5C > 214A~C > Mudoon > 214D > sweep > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (7.7k)

Also I finally made a non-CH 5D combo that goes into EX Fangs/OMB route, it just doesn't have as much corner carry as the other ones (but still more than the above combo so it requires you to be somewhat near the player starting position to corner. Thankfully you can dash under them after the OMB if you need to carry them back to the opposite corner.

(at least 18 meter and Burst required) 5DD hit > dash 5C > 236A+B > dash 5C > 236A~B(1) > OMB > 5AA > 5C > IAD jA/B > jC > 5C > 236B~DxN (7.6k, 8k with C-shots)

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Aw geez, I don't check back here in like half a month and its an explosion of new tech.

Well gotta play catchup ;_;. Hopefully ill have something new to contribute as well.

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(near corner, need 18 meter to start) 236B~D FC, 2B, 5C, 2[C], 5C, IAD jA/B, jC, 5C, 214A~Cx5, Mudoon, 214D, sweep, 236A~D, [214D > 236A~DxN] (8.8k, 9k with shots)

Meter gain FC combo. So, practically, we can kill almost anyone near the corner with a raw 236B FC with only 18 meter. Add Gold Burst for corner carry if you're midscreen, or to ensure the kill on 9.5k or less chars.

(near corner, requires Fear and at least 21 meter) Throw (FC) > 5B > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214D > 5AA > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (3.4k)

(near corner fuzzy guard, requires Fear and at least 21 meter) (jC safejump) > rising jA (FC) > delayed jC > land 5B > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > 2B > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214D > sweep > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (5.5k, 6.5K with OMB (omit the Sweep))

Here are some meter gain Fear combos after ending a combo with Shotgun. These are for when it's better to go for Fate counters over SMP (usually the first round) and the opponent is at around 50-60% of their health bar before comboing into the Shotgun. Fuzzy guard version works on everyone thanks to Fear, but will not work on Narukami without Fear due to lack of FC (they will tech out of C shots > Mudoon)

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