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ludwig van

[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Combo Thread "My skills have been honed!" (Updated 1/20/2013)

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Just a note about the Fear Fuzzy follow up. You don't have to do rising j.A into j.AxN like you do against Narukami, you can do one rising j.A and go into a slightly delayed j.C after the deep j.C. Since its a fatal starter, you'll have enough time after the j.C to land and do whatever you want like 5B etc. You'll get a better combo off that than having so many j.As scaling the combo hard.

EDIT: If you have 50 meter at the start of a 236B FC in the corner, then doing 236B FC C shots (first couple of shots should whiff, last 2 should connect) Mudoon, D trap, 2B 5B 5C IAD j.C j.D land 236A~D (D trap, 236A~D) xN should kill the majority of the cast. Might not kill Kanji, don't remember too well. Your 236B fatal is better if you need to build the meter to get a Mudoon I believe, but does less damage in the end.

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Oh I know about the 236B ToD with 50 meter, this version was just for meter gain. I didn't know about the jC connection after fear fuzzy guard though; I'll have to update that combo to squeeze out some more damage.

EDIT: Using jC helped the damage out a lot, upped it to 5.5k:

rising jA (FC) > delayed jC > land 5B > 5C > 236B~D > 2B > 5C > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214D > sweep > 236A~D > [214D, 236A~D]xN (5.5k, 6.5K with OMB (omit the Sweep))

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OK I got something pretty funny. Corner to corner SMP using only 50% and its starter is either 5AA or 5B. It goes like this:

Close 5AA/5B 5C 236B~D dash 5C delay IAD j.A/j.B j.C land 66 5C 214A~CxN Mudoon dash up D trap, 5AA or 5b/Sweep, 236A~D (214D, 236A~D)xN

If you start with 5AA, then use 5B or Sweep after Mudoon. If you start with 5B, just do the opposite. This only works on Yosuke, Yukiko, Liz, and Aigis unfortunately. Getting the proper height for the IAD string to connect in such a way that you can land 5C afterwards is kinda tricky. The 66 5C is very important to do because without it you won't be close enough for Mudoon to connect and have it send the opponent fly far enough to wallstick in the corner. And as you can see this is simply the SMP listed a couple posts back so the same damage values and stuff apply. You can also just cut this combo short at the IAD portion by simply landing, 5C, 236A~D for knockdown.

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^Those combos will still work universally on airborne opponents, so good to know in case you get an anti-air 5AA or 5B, or catch someone chicken jumping or whatever. They work from just behind the player starting position to the opposite corner; dat corner carry.

EDIT: Also Ludwig do you think you could update the front page of the combo thread eventually? There's been a lot of new stuff discovered with all the 25 meter + OMB, meter gain > Mudoon, and Silence > OMB routes. I think it would be helpful if they were all in one spot so anyone looking for combos doesn't have to dig around the thread.

I need to find a capture device and make videos of some of the stuff we've made; I think that would help make a good reference too.

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Yeah, I think its best that the OP gets updated. Compiling all the new SMPs and organizing them is going to be a pain in the butt lol. Might have to use spoiler tags as since theres that many SMPs now lol.

Here is an anti air 2B corner to corner SMP lol: 2B 5C delay 236B~D dash 5C j.A/j.B j.C land 66 5C 214A~Cx5 dash D Trap, 5AA, 236A~D, go to town. Should be about 6k.

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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21103371

Air counter hit 5D~D combos, courtesy of Denpa. Big thanks to Ichipoo for linking this to me earlier today.

Notation, near the corner:

5D~D CH AA, dash up C-trap, D trap, 236A~Bx1~D, 2[C], 5AA, 5C 236BxN. You'll build 50 meter to add a Mudoon if you'd like.

My version (or at least what i find is easier than the above):

Same start, dash up D trap, 5AA 236A~Bx1~D, 2A/2B/5B 5C j.A j.C land 5C 236BxN. This one also works if you land 5D~D CH on a grounded opponent, but the timing is tighter.

EDIT: Meterless SMP off AOA~D in the corner:

AOA~D FC, 5B 2B 5C jump airdash j.C delay j.D land 5AA 236BxN. Can tack on Mudoons to this for added damage.

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^These are all great to know. That AoA combo is awesome. It's superior to the 18 meter version I posted a while back, as long as you're close enough to the corner. Only need just 1 meter to start, does 3.5k, 5.4k with Mudoon, 6.2k with OMB, add 400 to either with C shots like always. So even after using your meter on stuff like Counter Assaults in Yu/Chie matchups, you can still potentially run it back with an overhead.

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Denpa da gawd, he improved my D Megido SMP:

D Megido, 2AB, 236A~Bx1 OMB C Megido 2A 2[C] 5B 5C 236BxN, C Shots ender, 10,191k. Now only Kanji survives this. Thank you based SMP god Denpa ;~;

EDIT: I botched the notation for the 5D CH combo. It should be 5D~D CH Air Hit, wait, C trap, Sweep D-Trap, 236A~B(1), 2[C] 5AA 5C. My variation of this combo is fine though, but with this correction Denpa's SMP becomes way better lol. Builds 89 meter and does 7.7k without a mudoon!

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Not too sure if it was posted somewhere since it's just a mix of two known combo but I didn't see it so... (EDIT: It totally was already posted previously.):

(ground-hit, 18 meter) 5D~D > 66 (can change side) > 5C > 236B~D > 66 > 5C > IAD > J.A > J.C > 5C > (delay?) 214A~C x 5 > Mudoon > 214D > 5AA > (236A~D > 214D) x N (~7.4k)

Reasons to use it instead of the deadly 5D~D > 5C > Mudoon is that it works anywhere since it carries farther and can change side. Moreover need less starting meter.

Sometimes the C shots make the Mudoon whiff when the character is too high up. if delaying the C shots does not solve the problem, you can use A shots instead to make the Mudoon connect for sure, although that will cut the damage to around 5.9k~

an easier but more costly variation:

(ground-hit, 55 meter) 5D~D > 66 (can change side) > 5C > 236B~D > 66 > 5C > IAD > J.A > J.C > 5C > 236AB > Mudoon > 214D > 5AA > (236A~D > 214D) x N (~7.4k)

For fun/trivia:

(cornered, 150 meter) 214214A~C > RC > 5D > 5AA/2B/5B > ~D > 6 > (5C) > Mudoon > 214D > 2B/5B/5AA > 236A~D > 2[C] > 66 > 5B/5AA/2B > (5C) > (236B~D) x N (death)

(cornered, 150 meter) 214214A~C > RC > 5D > 5AAA > (wall bounce) ~D > Mudoon > 214D > 2B > 236A~D > 2[C] > 66 > 5B > 5C > (236B~D) x N (~7k?)

(cornered, 150 meter) 214214A~C > RC > 5D > 2B > 236B > D (D) > Mudoon > 66 > 214D > 5AA > IAD > J.A > J.C > 5C > (236A~D > 214D) x N (~8k?)

(cornered, 100 meter) 214214A~C > RC > 5D > 2B > 236A > D (D) > 236B~C x 5 (~5.3k)

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^Is that D trap combo near the corner only? Do you have a video link? Denpa died for our sins. ;_;

Nah, it's possible mid screen but its kinda tricky to get the timings at first. Basically you want to do the Sweep as close as possible, then go into 236A~B(1) OMB. From there you have to microdash then do C-trap and hit 2A as soon as you recover so that the opponent gets hit into the C trap above your foot. From there slightly delay the 2[C] (walking forward is best) and then microdash 5B 5C 236BxN. It took me a while to get the timing but its totally possible with practice. I would use this against Kanji, Akihiko, MAYBE Mitsuru and Chie as well if I'm desperate to kill them off asap and don't want to risk dropping the 2A 5B off the original easy modo combo. Of course, in the corner this combo is really easy to hit so you can go for it instead and not have to worry about the tricky timings as much.

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More Denpa tech. Hamaon SMPs. Hamaon is guaranteed if you super cancel it off the last hit of A shots, Sweep, and 236A. Also possible if you do it late after 5AAA as well so that it doesn't combo.

MAJOR EDIT: I went to training mode and optimized everything and figured out why I was screwing this up today over netplay. Here is the real stuff to use. Sorry guys lol. I was going strictly on what I saw Denpa doing and I didn't realize this stuff was quite character specific. I'm sure he mentioned that on his stream but my Japanese is terrible >.<

Midscreen Hamaon +OMB: These do 7-8k

Hamaon (blocked) j.B, Hamaon hits, wait, 5B/Sweep, 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C IAD j.A j.C land 5C 236BxN

Hamaon (blocked) Sweep, Hamaon hits, wait, 5B, 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C IAD j.B j.C land 5C 236BxN

Corner, Hamaon: These do 6k

Hamaon (blocked) j.B, Hamaon hits, slightly delayed C trap, D trap, 236A~B(1)~D, 2[C] 5C IAD j.A j.C land 5C 236BxN

Hamaon (blocked) Sweep, Hamaon hits, slighly delayed C trap, D trap, 236`B(1)~D 2[C] 5C IAD j.B j.C land 5C 236BxN

These two corner combos above work on Labrys, S. Labrys, Aigis, Naoto, Yukiko, Chie, Kanji, Akihiko.

Hamaon (blocked) j.B, Hamaon hits, slightly delayed C trap, 2A/5B/Sweep, D trap, 236A~B(1)~D 2[C] 2B 5C 236BxN

Hamaon (blocked) Sweep, Hamaon hits, slightly delayed C trap, 2A/5B, D trap, 236A~B(1)~D 2[C] 2B 5C 236BxN

These only work on Mitsuru, Narukami, Elizabeth, and Yosuke. You need to use a 2A/5B/whatever at the point where C trap would usually connect to hit the opponent into them. A note, you can't use this combo on the characters that you can combo straight into C trap because the 2A/5B/whatever will hit AFTER the C trap and screw you over.

For Teddie: These do 5-6k

Hamaon (blocked) j.B, Hamaon hits, slightly delayed D-trap, wait, 5AA 236A~B(1)~D, 2[C] 2B/5B 5C 236BxN

Hamaon (blocked) Sweep, Hamaon hits, slightly delayed D trap, wait, 5AA 236~B(1)~D, 2[C] 2B/5B 5C 236BxN

Note: You can do 2A 5B instead of 5AA for more damage. Whatever is easier for you. These Teddie variation also works on the entire cast if you don't want to learn the above. You'll be sacrificing damage for simplicity. You can essentially change a lot of parts to any of these combos, like you could go for the IAD route before 236B, or you can do something like 2A 5AA 5C 236B instead, etc. Its whatever you are most comfortable.

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Some more throw > OMB combos. This time the focus is using only OMB, or 25 meter + OMB, to squeeze out that last bit of throw damage to end the round instead of just doing throw followup or vanilla corner combo without 50 meter. Doesn't happen too often, but good to know if it'll win you the match, or get them to their last pixel:

Throw (no followup) > OMB > (dash) 2[C] > 5C > IAD > jB > jC > 5C > 236B~D > (dash) 236A~D (2.4k, 2.7k with B shots)

(corner) Throw (no followup) > OMB > immediate 214D > 5AA > 236A~B(1)~D > 2A > 2B > 5C > 236B~Dx3 > 236A~D (3.4k) OR additional 236B~C shots ender (3.7k). If you have 25 meter, you can EX Fangs afterwards for 3.9k, but I think it would be better to end in oki with EX trap for guaranteed lockdown + heavy chip damage (about the same amount if you had just combo'd them with EX fang) unless it will kill in that situation.

Also Guard Cancel > OMB, so you can pretend you're :lordknight:

Counter Assault > OMB > (dash) 2[C] > 5B > 5C > 236B~Cx5 (1.6k, cannot kill)

You cannot combo into Mudoon after CA > OMB, as the opponent techs out immediately before the Mudoon even connects, so no Guard Cancel SMPs. At least Arcsys thought that far ahead lol. Also keep in mind that you can never kill of a guard cancel combo, so this usually isn't worth the resources unless you get knocked down and are going to die after the next mixup, or you can get them to their last bit of health and are confident you can keep them out.

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Air to Air CH confirms. These are very much height/spacing dependant but I feel like they can be broke down into 3 categories. Rising CH, standard air to air, and sj height confirms.

Rising j.A/j.B CH: wait, airdash j.A/j.B j.C land, whatever.

Standard air to air (roughly the same height as your opponent, more or less) j.A/j.B CH: land, 5A/2A/5B/5C/whatever, into whatever combo path you like.

Super jump height: j.A/j.B CH straight into j.C/j.D. Can set up a trap in mid air and try to air throw their tech.

Getting the air dash combo to work can be tricky at times. Sometimes you are better off landing and going straight into 236A instead of trying for a 5A or 5C. The "standard" air to air height gives you a lot of time to do whatever you like. It's also possible to just go for a delayed j.C after the first air normal and land, then go for a combo too. It's honestly whatever is most comfortable for the player. I like landing first and going for a 2A pick up since it puts the opponent at a very specific height that is easy to combo off of, as well as giving me the option to go for a OMB SMP or standard IAD string into Mudoon. SJ height is pretty straight forward, just free style something into j.D or j.C into trap and play the tech chase game. This info should be pretty obvious to any accomplished Naoto player, but I feel like this should be stressed since I know personally my air confirms need work, and I was impressed at how naturally JP players convert random air hits into decent damage.

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More combos courtesy of Denpa.

5D~D (hits) sj j.B j.C OMB land 2[C] dash 5AA 5C delay 5B 236AB 236BxN. Should be about 8k. You'll probably have an easier time if you add a j.A and omit the 5B. Changing 2[C] into a 2A also makes this easier but does less damage.

D trap, 2A 5C IAD j.B j.C land (5C) 236A 236236A OMB 2[C] 5B (5C) 236BxN

(Corner) Throw OMB at the chop portion, C trap, Sweep, D trap, 236A~B(1)~D, 2A 5B 5C 236BxN, ~4k.

j.B j.A j.C OMB 2[C] 5AA 5C delay 5B 236AB 236BxN (This is stupid hard to hit imo)

I think there were more, but nothing else that really left an impression on me too much. Very simple stream session from him today. It seemed he was just testing out stuff and getting use to these confirms.

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Why do all these improved confirms have to come out right before EVO lol. Burst-safe SMP off D trap with 50 meter + burst, and 25 meter + Burst SMPs off air-to-air, must grind.

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Not sure if it's been posted already, but here's a "practical" corner OMB SMP

5B > 5C > 2C > OMB > dash 214C > 5A (214C hits) > 214D > 236A~B(1)~D > 2[C] > 5C > SMP until 4.9k

Pretty useful if you get burst'd out of a Mudoon SMP but manages to land a random hit in corner.

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Not sure if it's been posted already, but here's a "practical" corner OMB SMP

5B > 5C > 2C > OMB > dash 214C > 5A (214C hits) > 214D > 236A~B(1)~D > 2[C] > 5C > SMP until 4.9k

Pretty useful if you get burst'd out of a Mudoon SMP but manages to land a random hit in corner.

5B 5C 2C OMB dash 214C, 2A, 214D, 236A~B(1)~D, 2B, 236BxN is over 5k and is a lot easier.

Doing 5A instead of 2A, and repeating 5C hurts your damage (you might even be able to do Sweep instead of 2A here, but 2A is easy enough). You also don't really have to worry about getting the timing/height perfect so that the 2[C] connects after the 236A if you do this instead.

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In the corner:

Throw, OMB (at the neck chop portion), microdash C trap, 2A/Sweep, D trap, 236A~B(1)~D, 2[C] 5B 5C 236BxN, 4.1k

Oddly enough, I think this combo does more damage if you don't use Sweep, but 2A instead. I dunno. This one is weird. You can also do 5AA 5C as the ender if you don't want to bother with getting the 2[C] link.

Midscreen to Corner:

Throw, OMB (at the neck chop), Mudoon, dash C trap, D trap, 236A~B(1)~D , 2[C]/2A 5B 5C 236BxN over 8k, 8.7k with C shots

Throw, OMB (at the neck chop), Mudoon, dash D trap, Sweep, 236A~B(1)~D , 2[C]/2A 5B 5C 236BxN over 8k as well. EASY MODO.

This combo carries from the match starting position, so it makes this really convenient. I use to OMB before the neck chop, and then realized that im just missing out on like 700 damage for leaving out the chop. Derpppppp. Oh well, now tick throws are really scary.

EDIT: because i dont wanna make a new post. A better variant of the D trap OMB SMP for Mitsuru and Chie:

D trap, 2A, 5B/2B, 5C, 236A~B(1) OMB dash C trap, 5AA, 236BxN, ~ about 8.6k, 9.2k with shots, roughly. This combo isn't as demanding as the one Denpa came up with since I feel the opponent winds up closer at the OMB portion, and because its easier to link the 5A after the C trap set than it is 2A.

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OK so I decided to go back and revise this old OMB SMP that I saw Denpa use back in his FT10 with Yu-sama and came to some nice conclusions about it.

Here's the combo that i'm sure you guys have seen before. It works on the entire cast:

D-trap/C trap CH, 2A 5C j.A j.C land (5C) 236A~B(1) OMB walk forward 2[C] dash 5B 236BxN. This does ~9.3k w/ shots. If you omit the 5C in parenthesis, the damage gets bumped up to 9.7k with shots instead.

Now here is the thing about this combo. Going by my AA j.B confirm which involves doing an airdash j.A j.C straight into 236A, I figured I could apply this to this combo as well to see what happens. And what we get is an amazing SMP that carries from past the round start position that kills everyone but Aki and Kanji from full health. The trick to getting the 236A to land straight after j.C is simply delay your airdash string and slightly delay the 236A itself. You can visually confirm if they will be too high/far for the 236A to connect, so you can always salvage it with land 5C beforehand. If you have at least 8-9 meter to start this combo, you'll build enough meter to do an EX Fang instead of 2[C] for an easier, more damaging variant (this only applies to the variant that does not omit the second 5C). If you have 11 meter to start and omit the second 5C, you'll build enough meter for an EX Fangs and you'll do enough damage to kill Akihiko. The other nice thing about this SMP is that even if you don't reach the corner by the time you do your first B fangs, you'll have enough time to do dash 5C after it and go for B fangs again, which by then you should be perfectly snug in the corner although the SMP damage will be less.

Fun note: you can link 2C off 236B anywhere. Midscreen you have to microdash. Its a nice alternative of a combo ender if you are aiming for their Fate counters and haven't used a move that takes any in the combo. So like 5AA 5C 236B~D dash 2C is a nice combo to go for if you need that last 2 skulls to get them to 0. Just don't be derp and do this if you can get an airdash extension via air hit or if you are close enough to the corner to get dash 5C to link and then get the airdash extension.

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^That 2C link has been amazingly helpful. Puts you in a much more advantageous position midscreen (instead of doing C-shots) and helps push them into the corner.

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5C>2AB>236A~Bx5>236236D>214D>5AA>236A~D (214D hits)>2[C]>dash 5C>SMPx6>236A~D (50 meter, 5.8k damage)

This combo seems silly?

Why would you put in the sweep so early? And ending the setup with 5C when you already started with 5C only hurts proration even more (not to mention only being necessary due to not being able to go straight into SMP from 2[C], even though 10 moves have been reached already by then)... Running 5B can reduce proration by a bit since you can combo into A bullets, or you can simply run a variant form of the 5B starter SMP combo (5C 5B 2C instead of 5B 5C 2C).

5C > 5B > 236A~Ax5 > 236236D > 214D > 2AB > 236A~D (214D hits) > 2[C] > 2B > SMPx9 > 236A~D (50 meter, 7.3k damage)

5C > 5B > 2C > 236236D > 214D > 5AA > 236A~D (214D hits) > 2[C] > 2B > SMPx13 > 236A~D (50 meter, 8.9k damage)

EDIT: nvm, was writing another combo but you have this one listed under (skip 5C starter) for some reason

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