[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Combo Thread "My skills have been honed!" (Updated 1/20/2013)

[ludwig van]

Naoto Combo Recommendations!

This is a list to help people starting to learn Naoto a starting point for combos instead of having to go through a long list of different combos and SMPs.

Notes:

1. Every combo that ends with 236A~D is so you can set up trap oki.

2.For information on the SMP loop, look here.

Combos will be shown as:

Combo input:damage/meter gain/misc. notes (if any)

Combos are listed from least damaging to most damaging in their sections.

Midscreen:

Meterless

1. 2AB > 236A~D:973/7
   
   
2. 5AAA:980/18/sets up a safe jump-in or gives you space to zone and lay down traps, good meter gain.
   
   
3. 5AAAAAAAAA(A):1458/26/Auto-Combo, good meter gain, super usage optional but useful if it'll kill or on Persona reliant opponents (Yukiko, SLab, Liz, Kanji, Naoto)
   
   
4. 5AA > 5B > 5C > sj AD j.A > j.B > j.C > land dash 2A > 5AAA:1784/28/harder version of combo 2, but pushes the opponent farther into the corner and gives more meter, sj and AD must be done in quick succession yet separately.
   
   
5. AoA~C > j.B > j.C > dj.B > j.C > j.D:2349/26/can end w/ 236236A to silence + extra damage, can leave out j.D to try to hit opponent w/ j.214C/j.214D
   
   
6. (Trap hits) 5C > IAD j.A > j.C > land 5C > 236B~Cx5:2645/23/for players who might be having trouble landing the next combo on certain characters (mostly Chie)
   
   
7. (Trap hits) 5C > IAD j.A > j.C > land 5C > 236B~D > dash 5C > IAD j.A > j.C >land 5C >236A~D:3533/27
   
   
8. (D trap hits/C trap CH) 5B > 5C > IAD j.A> j.C> land 5C > 236A~B > OMB > dash 2[C] > dash 2B > SMPx13 > 236A~D:9205/16 pre-burst/OMB meterless SMP, if you're having trouble w/ the OMB try assigning it on an unused button.
   

With Meter

1. CD~C > delay 236236B:878/6 pre-super/excellent for reducing the opponent's Fate Gauge (takes off 8), in the corner you don't have to delay the 236236B.
   
   
2. j.CD > OMC > j.C > land dash 5C > 236B~D > dash 5C > 236A~D:3326/6 pre-OMC/air-throw combo 1
   
   
3. j.CD > OMC >j.C >land 5C > IAD j.A > j.C >land 5C > 236B~Cx5:3683/6 pre-OMC/air-throw combo 2
   
   
4. CD~C > 23236D > dash 214D > 2A > 2B> 236A~B~D(214D hits) > 5B > 5C > SMPx7 > 236A~D:5337/6 pre-Mudoon/for Teddie, must be done 1/2 of the way or closer to the corner.
   
   
5. CD~C > 236236D > 214C(hits) > 214D > 236A~B~D(214D hits) > 2[C] > 2B> 5C > SMPx7 > 236A~D:5713/6 pre-Mudoon/doesn't work on Teddie, must be done 1/2 of the way or closer to the corner.
   
   
6. 5D~D > 2C > 236236D > dash 214D > 236A~B~D (trap hits) > 2[C] > 5AA > 5C > SMPx14 > 236A~D:10331/7 pre-Mudoon/dashing forward while the opponent is being hit by 5D~D is recommended especially if you're farther from the corner, must be done 1/2 of the way or closer to the corner.
   
   
7. (214D hits) 5C > IAD j.A > j.C > land 5C >214A~Cx5 > Mudoon >214C (it hits) > 5D(s) > 236A~D > 5D(a) > SMPxN:Death/23 pre-Mudoon/must be done 1/2 of the way or closer to the corner.
   

Near Corner:

Meterless

1. AoA~D > 5B > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > IAD j.A > j.C> land 5C > 236A~D:2898/35/must be done 3/5 of the way or closer to the corner, great for building meter.
   
   
2. AoA~D > 2AB > 236A~B > OMB > 2[C] > 2B > 5C > SMPx9 > 236A~D:5764/21 pre-burst/OMB meterless SMP, must be done 3/5 of the way or closer to the corner.
   
   
3. 5C standing CH > 2[C] > 5B > 5C > sj AD j.A > j.B > j.C > land dash 2A > 5AA > 2B > 5C > SMPx6 > 236236D > SMPx6 > 236A~D:7507/53 pre-Mudoon/doesn't work on Teddie, SLab, Lab, Yosuke, must be done 3/5 of the way or closer to the corner, sj and AD must be done in quick succession yet separately, can be started meterless.
   

With Meter

1. 2AB > 236A~Bx5 > 236236D > 214D > 2A > 2B > 236A~D(214D hits) > 2[C] > 5C > SMPx6 > 236A~D:5326/11 pre-Mudoon/for Teddie,must be done 3/5 of the way or closer to the corner.
   
   
2. 2AB > 236A~Bx5 > 236236D > 214C(hits) > 214D > 236A~D(214D hits) > 2[C] > 2B> 5C > SMPx6 > 236A~D:5622 /11 pre-Mudoon/doesn't work on Teddie, must be done 3/5 of the way or closer to the corner.
   
   
3. AoA~D > 5B > 236236D > 214D > 236A~B~D(214D hits) > 2B > 5C > SMPx13 > 236A~D:7942/17 pre-Mudoon/must be done 3/5 of the way or closer to the corner.
   

For more regarding near-corner SMPs, scroll down for Jason D's notes.

Corner

Meterless

1. CD~C > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > 236A~D:2121/20
   
   
2. 5AA > 5B > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > IAD j.A > j.C > land 5C > 236A~D:2405/23
   

With Meter

1. (When cornered) 214AB~Ax5 > 236236D > 214D > 236A~D(214D hits) > 214C > 2A(214C hits) > 5AA > 5C > SMPx11 > 236A~D:7370/0 pre-Mudoon
   

Jason D's SMP Notes: (note: these are for any starter that isn't already listed, full pastebin doc here)

Jason SMP notes:

Omit the last 2A whenever possible. Never do it period if you did a 2A earlier. Horrible proration.

Watch the number on the combo counter right after the wallstick. Works for all combos with a 5C before the Mudoon. If 5C was not used, mentally add 1 to the counter.

If it is "7"+, super easy. D trap, 236A~B~D, go.

If it is "6", easy mode. D trap, 236A~B~D, 2B, 5C, go.

If it is "5", D trap, 2AB, 236A~B~D, 2B, 5C, go.

If it is "4", D trap, 2AB, 236A~B~D, 2A, 2B, 5C, go.

If it is "3", D trap, 5AA, 236A~B~D, 2A, 2B, 5C, go.

The combo counter will actually be the same number as the number of SMP moves you've already used. Therefore, the lower the number, the more SMP stuff you still need to do before the loop.

Simple notes: If it is 5 or less, sweep first. It it's 4, add the 2A. If less than that, do the long one.

Thanks to Bond, Mynus, Diarmuid, Jason D, and Kyle for their contributions to this!

[ludwig van]

The above will be worked into the opening posts (as well as a small update to the SMP section) tomorrow, got other stuff I need to do tonight lol. :X

[Xtra_Zero]

Hey for this combo (listed above): (214D hits) 5C > IAD j.A > j.C > land 5C >214A~Cx5 > Mudoon >214C (it hits) > 5D(s) > 236A~D > 5D(a) > SMPxN:Death/23

Can someone explain the timing of the first 236B to me? You can't catch them on the way down after the last slash, so the second hit of the kick must have to hit after the slash but before they fly up? Does it matter if the first hit of 236B hits before or after the last slash?

[ludwig van]

You have to hit the opponent w/ the 1st hit of 236B right as they get hit by the last hit of 5D(a). Be sure that the first hit of 5D(a) is practically hitting OTG from the 236A so it doesn't send the opponent too high.

[Xtra_Zero]

Okay so I can do the combo up to the loop now, but it keeps dropping after about the 5th or 6th rep. I'm PRETTY sure I'm doing the loop as tight as I can (I can generally do other one-shot loops okay). What could I be doing wrong?

[Random Naoto]

Okay so I can do the combo up to the loop now, but it keeps dropping after about the 5th or 6th rep. I'm PRETTY sure I'm doing the loop as tight as I can (I can generally do other one-shot loops okay). What could I be doing wrong?

Dropping as in the counter turns yellow/the dummy techs, or dropping as in the double fang doesn't connect?

Make sure you're taking advantage of advanced input. You should be doing 236B, and holding the B button until the double fang actually comes out making sure that it actually comes out and comes out on the first frame. Other than that, double check the notation and make sure you're doing the combo correctly; if you're doing anything wrong it might be messing with the proration you've accumulated and not letting you do as many double fangs as you should.

[DaVinci678]

Just out of curiousity, has the advanced input ever been known to slip? It tends to work kind of on and off when I try to loop Naoto, although i suppose i may actually have abused my controller too much (Sorry for the stupid question I'm new xD and am worries I wore out my controller)

[Random Naoto]

Just out of curiousity, has the advanced input ever been known to slip? It tends to work kind of on and off when I try to loop Naoto, although i suppose i may actually have abused my controller too much (Sorry for the stupid question I'm new xD and am worries I wore out my controller)

I doubt it, just for the fact that human error is much more likely than random machine code error. The advanced input in P4 is apparently only three frames, so it's not super lenient in the first place, and it doesn't seem to work with charge moves, like 2[C]. But it definitely does help with the double fang. If you're worried about your buttons, turn input display on in training mode and do the combo until you drop one and see if the game engine registered the B.

[DaVinci678]

Oh I had no idea there was a three frame limit. That might be it, and thanks for the tip. It turns out it was my fault xD But i'm adjusting timing accordingly.

[Ichipoo]

http://youtu.be/oE1zbB_FTvY

Thanks to James Xie and ludwig for sharing this on twitter.

[ludwig van]

lol I was just about to post that. But yeah, that video is too funny.

[SgtFunShinebear]

http://youtu.be/oE1zbB_FTvY

Can we get some guys working on a C trap SMP? For troll purposes of course.

[SgtFunShinebear]

Can we get some guys working on a C trap SMP? For troll purposes of course.

I've been working on this for awhile now, and I'm not sure why I can't get it to work. As far as I know, I'm meeting all the SMP requirements. in the corner it's 2A>5AA>2B>5B>5C>236B>236AB>236236D>214D>236A>(214D hits)> GO with C traps. Ideas anyone?

[Dances w Ninjas]

I'm pretty sure it only works off of Fatal Counters.

[Doonpa]

OMB SMP Combo dump. Note: You can always tack on Mudoons to the end of these to boost the damage. I don't know whether you get more damage by using it as soon as you get the 10 hits or after the max reps of 236B so its up to you when you do Mudoon to get the most damage if given sufficient meter. As for all SMPs and their slight alternatives, rearranging the order of normals used and/or changing certain moves for more damaging normals will often yield better SMPs of course. What i listed is what I feel are the easiest variations to remember/do mid match. Outside of throw/2a starters, the damage off these SMPs should be pretty good (I dont remember/haven't checked all the damage values of these) considering that no Mudoon is being used in these combos.

Anything that works midscreen or 3/4s to the corner also works while in the corner.

OMB Only, midscreen going into the corner:

5AA 5B 2AB 236A~B(1) OMB IAD J.A J.C 5C 236B XN ~6.4-6.7k?

5C CH 2[C] 5B 5C SJ. AD J.ABC 2A5AA 2AB OMB 236B XN 5.6-6k?

C TRAP CH/D TRAP 2A/2B 5C IAD J.A J.C 5C 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5B 236B XN 8.6k?

J.A J.B 5AA 5B 2AB 236A~B(1) OMB 5C 236B XN almost 6k?

J.C 5AA 5B 2AB 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C 236B XN 7k+?

AOA-C FC J.ABC OMB 2[C] 5B 5C 236B XN 5k?

5D CH 2A/2B 5C J.A J.C 5C 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5B 236B XN 9k?

2A 5A(A) 5B 2AB 236A~B(1) OMB IAD J.A J.C 5C 236B XN ??

3/4 TO CORNER

FC 236B DASH 2A/2B 5B 5C J.A J.C LAND J.B OMB D-TRAP 5AA 236A D TRAP HITS, (236A, D TRAP)XN 7.4-8k?

CORNER

AOA-D FC 5B 5C J.BCD OMB 2B 236B XN 5k?

AOA-D FC 5B 5C OMB D TRAP 2AB 236A~B(1) 236B XN 6k?

5B 5C 2AB/2C OMB D TRAP 5AA 236A~B(1) 2B 236B XN 6k+?

THROW+FOLLOWUP, 5B 5C J.B J.C OMB D TRAP 236A~B(1) 236B XN 4k?

2A 5AA 5B 2AB/2C OMB D TRAP 236A~B(1) 5C 236B XN ??

(CROUCHING ONLY) SHORT HOP/NORMAL JUMP J.A J.B J.D OMB D TRAP 5B/2AB 236A~B(1) 2B 5C 236B XN 5k?

5AA 5B 5C 2C/2AB OMB D TRAP 236A~B(1) 2B 236B XN

J.C 5AA 5B 5C 2AB/2C OMB D TRAP 236A~B(1) 236B XN

25% + OMB Notes: So basically, any combo above can be tweaked by simply adding a SP Fangs towards the end of the combo. Usually, there is a normal at the end before you go into B fangs. All you have to do is just do SP Fangs at that point instead of the normal to achieve the same result. Also works by omitting 2[C] and going into the normal after it then into SP Fangs as well.

25%, NO BURST 3/4 TO CORNER

236B FC DASH 2A 2B 5C IAD J.C J.D J.EX TRAP J.A/J.B C TRAP CONNECTS, LAND 5B DELAY 236A, ( D-TRAP, 236A)XN. Note: Can replace 5b with 5AA towards the end but the timing and height is tighter to do it than 5B. Also yields a more damaging SMP as 236A does not become the 10th move in the SMP so it does not get destroyed by the scaling.

25% CORNER

AOA-D FC 5B 5C J.D EX TRAP J.B C TRAP CONNECTS, LAND 236A D TRAP CONNECTS, 236B XN

25% + OMB notes: Basically, just tweak the combos above for them. An easy example would be like 5AA 5B 2AB 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C 236AB 236B xN from midscreen going into the corner. These do more damage in general, so its not bad to go for them. Some can do up to 1k+ more damage than their meterless or burstless counterparts so play around with them. I am too lazy to write these out because there are a lot of possibilities with them.

[Zeromus_X]

Nice list Diarmud, practicing those now.

EDIT: For anyone practicing the 25 meter > OMB combos, or really any of the combos with 236A~B(1) > OMB, I find that doing 236A~B(3) and then a OMB is a lot easier to time without sacrificing damage. 5AA 5B sweep 236A~B(3) OMB 2[C] 5C 236A+B 236BxN still does 6k at any rate.

Btw, the Naoto in Arc Revo qualifiers used a sweet burst-safe SMP setup against a Shlabrys:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2QRuOmElDst=12m35s

There were some Silence Shot + OMB combos listed earlier in the thread, but to reiterate, tweaking the combo used in a vid a bit is a touch of death on the whole cast:

5AA > 5C > 236A+B > Mudoon > 214D > 236236A (first couple hits only) > OMB > dash 5C > 236A~D (214d hit) > 2[C]> 5B > 5C > 236B~D... (Death)

Will kill everyone, but if Kanji is at full health, need to use C shots after the last rep of 236B to make that 10.5k. Also, the silence status effect will actually wear off around 6.5k damage, but at the point in the round where you have 125 meter and a Burst, that will probably be enough damage to run it back anyway.

[Doonpa]

Silence SMPs, Corner (or at least close to the corner):

5B 5C 2C Mudoon D-Trap 2B Silence Shots (all hits), OMB, either (dash 236A~B(1), 236BxN) or (dash Sweep 236A~D 236BxN)

AOA~D FC, 5B 5C Mudoon D trap Silence Shots (all) OMB dash 236A~D 236BxN

236B FC, dash 2A 2B 5C IAD j.C j.D Ex Trap, j.B, Silence Shots, OMB, dash 236A~D, (214D, 236A~D) xN

D trap, 5C, j.A j.C 5C 214A~Cx5 Mudoon 2B, Silence Shots, OMB dash 236BxN

5AA 5B 5C 2C Mudoon, D trap, Silence Shots OMB, dash 236A~D 236BxN

5D CH, dash 5C j.A j.C 5C Mudoon D trap, (2B) Silence Shots, OMB, dash 236A~D, 236BxN

5D, 5C, Mudoon, D trap, 2B, Silence Shots, OMB, dash 2AB 236A~B(1)~D 236BxN

2AB, Ex Fangs, Mudoon, D-Trap, 2B, Silence Shots, OMB, dash 5B 236A~B(1)~D, 236BxN

AOA-C FC, j.b j.c Silence Shots OMB land Mudoon, 5B 5C 236BxN

j.C, 5B 5C 2C Mudoon, D trap, 2B Silence Shots, OMB, dash 236A~D, 236BxN

Throw+Follow up, Mudoon, D trap, 2B, Silence Shots, OMB, dash 2AB 236A~B(1)~D, 236BxN

Naoto in corner, 214214A~C FC, 2B, 5C Mudoon, D trap, 5B, Silence Shots, OMB, dash 2AB 236A~D, 236BxN

Notes: These are just some examples mainly focused on using 100 meter and an OMB. These are very costly, but the reward for these should be pretty high. Biggest perk about using these SMPs is that your opponent won't be able to burst untill the bulk of the damage has already been dealt. Most people don't immediately burst Naoto's combos because there is no reason to unless it kills or involves Mudoon, right? What happens here is that the 2B into Silence super serves as a pseudo burst bait for those who burst immediately after Mudoon as the invul from the super plus Naoto backflipping away makes it so that their burst doesn't do a thing to you. If they do burst that spot, you get a nice 4.5k combo from the Silence super if you OMB into 2[C] 5C IAD j.A j.C land 5C 236B~D 5C IAD j.A j.C 5C 236A~D or B shots follow up. If they don't burst, it all combos and you get a FAT SMP loop that should score you a kill. Most of the times on the more damaging SMPs listed above, the opponent's next chance to burst doesn't happen untill you are like 7k-8k into the combo lol. This is probably the safest and most ideal way of getting dat runback once you get put into awakening while still having your burst. Basically, if anyone has lost half their health, this situation guarantees that they are dead regardless of their burst. If they have 80% life and decide to hold the combo, they will be in for a real rude awakening as they won't be able to do burst even if they decide mid SMP that they could be dead if hit with a decent starter. Unless the opponent has kept all their life, then this isn't a guarenteed kill unless they do not have their burst to begin with for most of these combos.

Dumb combos, 150 Meter, OMB, Corner:

5AAA Smp: 236B FC, dash 2A 2B 5C IAD j.C delay j.D land 5B 236A~B(1) OMB, Mudoon, 5AAA, 5AAA OMC dash behind opponent, 5AAA Mudoon, D trap, 236A~D, 236A~D or AOA Bounce ender. 6k?

5D SMP: Same as above up until Mudoon. Then you do [C Trap, 5D set, C trap explodes, wait, 236A~D, 5D hits, 5C Mudoon] x 3. On the last rep, you do 236A~D 5D hits, 236B (just like the usual SMP) straight into 236A~D for the final knockdown.

Ex Fang SMP: Same as above up until the OMB. Then its 236ABxN.

These 3 combos are bad except for the 5D SMP as it actually does a lot of damage (10k if its ended right I believe, but its still too costly). Ultimately, these are just combo vid material.

[RoanYagyu]

Not sure whether its more appropriate to ask this here or the Q&A thread but I decided to work on midscreen 236B~D dash 5C IAD stuff. Does this work on everyone and does it matter whether or not you get it off of an airborne opponent? I was practicing it on Naoto and I cant seem to get it off unless I hit her while shes airborne such as a D trap followup.

[Ichipoo]

D trap, CH C trap, CH 2B are your main starters for her double IAD combos since they start with the opponent in the air, and yes it works on everybody, some easier than others. Also, to make your life easier, after you do the j.A > j.C part of the combo, actually input 66 quickly before 5C in order to let your opponent drop a bit so that when you perform 236B~D, you won't launch them too far for your dash in 5C to miss.

It also helps ALOT if you play on a LAGLESS MONITOR and not some HDTV with Game Mode turned on.

[RoanYagyu]

What about on grounded opponents then? Like say 5AA 5C 236B~D dash 5C, Ive gotten it on a few chars, akihiko aigis yu mitsuru yosuke, but i cant seem to get it on some others such as shabrys. Is that one char specific or just me being bad :X?

Also thank you for the info

[Ichipoo]

5AA 5C 236B~D dash 5C etc etc is possible on everybody just as long as their back is somewhat close to the corner.

[Zeromus_X]

Ive gotten it on a few chars, akihiko aigis yu mitsuru yosuke, but i cant seem to get it on some others such as shabrys. Is that one char specific or just me being bad :X?

Midscreen, on grounded opponents, the IAD combos only work on the characters you listed (and even then it's kind of a bitch on everyone except Yosuke). But yeah, disregard this if you're 3/4s of the screen toward the corner.

[Zeromus_X]

So I can't remember who originally posted these, but I swear they were on here before.

Corner meter gain combos using 5AAA:

Throw© > 5C > 236B~D > step back 5AAA (2123 dmg, 31 MG)

5B > 5C > 236B~D > step back 5AAA > 5AA > 5C > 236A~D (2926 dmg, 36 MG)

5AA > 5C > 236B~D > step back 5AAA > 5AA > 236A~D (2329 dmg, 34 MG)

214D/214C hit > (dash) 5C > 236B~D > step back 5AAA > 5AA > 236A~D (3291 dmg, 35 MG)

AoA~D (FC) > 5B > 5C > 236B~D > step back 5AAA (1682 dmg, 42 MG)

The trick is to hold back for a second during the 236B~D cancel to step back just a bit (you won't really visually see Naoto move back). This way, when you attempt the 5AA > 236A, the opponent won't wallbounce out of the corner. Some starters have too much proration to finish with A fangs, so you have to settle for 5AAA and allow them to air tech instead. You can do some silly gimmicks with these enders like crossing under their air tech. Or set a C trap, then jump forward and air turn for corner trap crossups, then run back behind them to combo them back into the corner (lolol). But yeah, I really like to use these combos when I get the opponent to the corner, but don't have enough meter to really make my next mixup threatening.

Mudoon combos (non-SMP)

A lot of Naotos tend to neglect her non-SMP Mudoon combos. I think these are worth a mention off good starters in the corner. Sometimes you'll hit the opponent near the corner with a close 5B punish, or 5B air hit, then go into 5C > B fangs out of habit. Well if you have at least 25 meter to start with, you can still go into a regular 5k Mudoon combo instead of the IAD BnB:

5B > 5C > 236B~D > (dash) 5C > 214A > C shots > Mudoon > 214C > 236A~D(trap hits) > 214D > 236A~D (trap hits) > 2[C] > 5C > 236A~D (5.3k, need 25 meter to start)

It's not SMP, but only needing 25 meter for 5.3k is still pretty damn good all things considered. Only hard part is the C trap set, which has to be as fast as possible so you can 236A the opponent into it for the bounce (otherwise you hit them as they fall into it, and can't set a D trap fast enough). Otherwise, if you grasp Naoto's SMP combo theory pretty well, this is simple enough. You can also do this combo off of trap hits and 5AA > 5C starter, omitting the C trap hit part for C trap starter. It's also flexible that you can omit the shots if you have enough meter, or omit the C trap part if the timing is too awkward, and still get like 5k.

[Manukiru]

I'm not sure if this has been found out already, but it's possible to start an SMP loop with naoto in the corner using only 25 meter and no burst... (needs about 8 meter to start with)

214C (counter hit) > 214D > 5AA > 236A~B(1) (trap hits) > 5D (aim cancel) > 5B > 2B > 236AB > 5C > 236B (10) > 236A (7821 dmg total)

it's not too impractical, only hard part is hitting the 5B at the right time, and not waiting too long for the 5C. I like to use this after a sweep into 236a for obvious reasons.

[Ichipoo]

That looks good, although I would replace 5B with 2A just to make your life a bit easier IMO.