[CP] News & Gameplay Discussion (Old)

[zeth07]

No. From what I could see it works exactly the same as before, though opponent was hit during the first "swing" so I can't say whether you can control it better now.

What happens when you are hit have an entirely new animation though! Opponent is trapped in a spider web that covers the whole screen, then eyes appears, from those eyes black spiders start to crawl out all over the screen... until everything is black. Astral Finish! and a rain of blood continues until the screen fades.

Incoming nightmares.

[SolxBaiken]

No. From what I could see it works exactly the same as before, though opponent was hit during the first "swing" so I can't say whether you can control it better now.

What happens when you are hit have an entirely new animation though! Opponent is trapped in a spider web that covers the whole screen, then eyes appears, from those eyes black spiders start to crawl out all over the screen... until everything is black. Astral Finish! and a rain of blood continues until the screen fades.

Damn, that sounds scarily awesome (and I have arachnophobia D: )

[SoWL]

That's what his AH should've been from the beginning. Took them long enough.

[Alex073088]

Nope. Makoto sucks, she have hard time getting stable wins despite her tier

Her viability matches that of tager jin tsubaki and rachel. She does not suck compared to those characters. She isnt a bad character, its the fact the game has many characters that are to strong like rag, carl, mu-12, arak, valk, tao etc. All of those stronger characters are getting addressed.

Hopefully you know that Arakune's j.B will beat atomic collider with any timing. You knew that right? If Arakune gets caught by a collider, they'e downright dumbasses. Seriously... I even did yomi colliders a good amount of times and all Arakune had to do was press j.B as he was trying to jump out :/

The high level tournaments I have seen no arakune wins simply by j.b spam. If you yomi'd an arakune doing j.b you should have 2c(i think thats the command for his double fisted anti air.) Now mind you if arakune can simply j.b everytime tager atomic collider. that fine but no other characters has a jump normal that good god like for the most part. So when tager AC's after whiffing a normal or a command grab and you jumped to avoid he can easily atomic collider most characters regardless of distance really easily even if they back air dash. Its espically retarded on rachel who is extremely floaty.

[SolarMisae]

"Damn you auto-correct!"

Why doesn't my dictionary has such an important word as "loli"!? >_<

Amane astral confirmed, babalities.

Loli Makoto is probably adorable.

[Alex073088]

I'm not concerned about the strength of the pull in, I'm concerned that the only thing you can chain from Collider is 2D or Sparkryuuken midscreen, because of the new bouncing direction.

Though, I must say Tager looks pretty solid today. Seems like they're trying to make him combo without Collider. Collider works wonder into corner though.

I will only go into this discussion, if you don't mind discussing it with me who has played very little. I can only base my opinions on whatever the Japanese pros does in the videos Jourdal and Pktazn uploads, as I have very little experience myself. If you are okay with that, I will explain how I view it.

Fuumajin is only active three in game seconds. You barely have the time to do anything with it anyway. But according to JBBS Fuumajin lost active time last Loketest.

I never mind discussing anything regarding player opinions of the game ^_^. Sometimes though I can be a bit aggressive when I feel as though people just say things and never back them up(give examples) Or, who dont seem to see examples I posted and try to object them. Fuumajin losing its active frames is fine, even if hakumen getting hit doesnt make the void disappear. Ever since cs1, having one of those there and actually hitting hakumen forces players to cut combos short or get hit while comboing hakumen. I just feel as though its no point of it still being there if he is being combo.

As far as hakumen drive being blocked. There are a few characters where this mechanic completely alters that way they play. Those characters from the top of my head being rachel(frog oki), litchi(super oki), carl( anything puppet), relius(anything puppet) these characters use there tools to set-up there oppurtunities to force blocking on wake-up(litchi and rachel) since hakumen do D on wake-up this allows him to either jump out, tech roll, or something advantages to him while the character who scored that knockdown has very little options into baiting 5d besides grabbing or backing off. I for one just got use to the mechanic but if they are making it he does have to block on wakeup in those situations like every other character, or use a risky reversal still punishable if attempt is baited then I feel like its fine. It will in no way break hakumen.

[StarGazer]

Her viability matches that of tager jin tsubaki and rachel. She does not suck compared to those characters. She isnt a bad character, its the fact the game has many characters that are to strong like rag, carl, mu-12, arak, valk, tao etc. All of those stronger characters are getting addressed.

She is on bar with Tsubaki but not with the others. What i meant is that her design sucks, she go through a lot of guessing stuff to win in neutral which makes her wins unstable. You can see Kuresu going on a 30 winstreak rampage with Tsubaki while Goro is having a hard time getting a 10 winstreak.

Amane astral confirmed, babalities.

Loli Makoto is probably adorable.

I want to see loli Makoto soo bad now :3

[Airk]

As far as hakumen drive being blocked. There are a few characters where this mechanic completely alters that way they play. Those characters from the top of my head being rachel(frog oki), litchi(super oki), carl( anything puppet), relius(anything puppet) these characters use there tools to set-up there oppurtunities to force blocking on wake-up(litchi and rachel) since hakumen do D on wake-up this allows him to either jump out, tech roll, or something advantages to him while the character who scored that knockdown has very little options into baiting 5d besides grabbing or backing off. I for one just got use to the mechanic but if they are making it he does have to block on wakeup in those situations like every other character, or use a risky reversal still punishable if attempt is baited then I feel like its fine. It will in no way break hakumen.

Here's the thing; How is this a problem? Essentially, what you are saying is "Hakumen's drive is bad because it means that some characters can't do the same thing they do against the rest of the cast." That same logic can be applied to Inferno Divider, Noel's Drive, Tager's GETB, pretty much Arakune's entire character, etc. The game is about having diverse characters, where you can't fight the same way against character X as you do against character Y. It's not Litchi's god-given right to be able to do stickman oki on the entire cast, anymore than it's Tager's right to fight his opponent at close range. Some characters just have tools that work better against certain opponents than against others.

I don't think it's right or valuable to remove something that makes a character unique like this, particularly when the situations it generates are actually more interesting than "You MUST sit there and try to block my mixup that you can barely see because my attack is blocking your view of my character". It's not a question of whether making Hakumen have to block on wakeup "just like the rest of the cast" will "break" him, and more a question of "Why -shouldn't- there be a character who doesn't have to just suck it up and deal with brutal oki mixups?"

There's really no reason I can understand that Hakumen shouldn't be able to do what he does. The only reason thus far provided is the extremely subjective "I don't like that I can't do my oki on Hakumen" complaint, and truthfully "I don't like that I can do X to character Y" is one of the worst game design arguments imaginable.

[Isuna]

Amane astral confirmed, babalities.

Loli Makoto is probably adorable.

I miss the boobies... T_T

[regarding blockable Zanshin]

[total impression based opinion] Even though Zanshin is very good against the characters you mentioned, and let us not forget Lambda and Mu. But for what I have seen, it's not like this match-ups are 80-20 for Hakumen. If they are going to nerf Hakumens most important (?) tool vs Carl/Relius which I would say is a 50/50 match-ups, they should nerf Hazamas/Valkenhayns/Taokakas movement as well, as they are at least 60/40 (probably 70/30) match-ups for Tager. [/total impression based opinion]

And I will still claim that ID > Zanshin.

Though, regarding the Zanshin nerfes, I think the 6D is the worst. I just don't understand it, especially as 5D seems to be delayable in some fashion.

[Lord Pwnge18]

Amane astral confirmed, babalities.

Loli Makoto is probably adorable.

I'm putting money down that Platinum will turn into the older Trinity.

[zdravc]

Her viability matches that of tager jin tsubaki and rachel. She does not suck compared to those characters. She isnt a bad character, its the fact the game has many characters that are to strong like rag, carl, mu-12, arak, valk, tao etc. All of those stronger characters are getting addressed.

The high level tournaments I have seen no arakune wins simply by j.b spam. If you yomi'd an arakune doing j.b you should have 2c(i think thats the command for his double fisted anti air.) Now mind you if arakune can simply j.b everytime tager atomic collider. that fine but no other characters has a jump normal that good god like for the most part. So when tager AC's after whiffing a normal or a command grab and you jumped to avoid he can easily atomic collider most characters regardless of distance really easily even if they back air dash. Its espically retarded on rachel who is extremely floaty.

I don't understand why most people want to see good characters nerfed instead of bad characters buffed.

And Makoto isn't comparable to Rachel, Tsubaki, Tager and Jin all of these have strong ranged or midranged moves or more or less safe approach and don't have to take as much risk to approach like Makoto for basically the same or greater reward in most cases. If you want to win with her you have to greatly outplay the opponent on all fronts for most characters excluding mirrors.

[zeth07]

There's really no reason I can understand that Hakumen shouldn't be able to do what he does. The only reason thus far provided is the extremely subjective "I don't like that I can't do my oki on Hakumen" complaint, and truthfully "I don't like that I can do X to character Y" is one of the worst game design arguments imaginable.

It is basically an argument between either characters not being able to autopilot something against one another, lol.

[Isuna]

It is basically an argument between either characters not being able to autopilot something against one another, lol.

But can you really autopilot 2D against anything, except Sickle Storm/Comet Cannon oki?

[YoYoCheese]

These videos are awesome Isuna! Azrael's Astral is all kinds of awesome. It easily one of my favorites even though it's so new.

[Zeron_X25]

Her viability matches that of tager jin tsubaki and rachel. She does not suck compared to those characters. She isnt a bad character, its the fact the game has many characters that are to strong like rag, carl, mu-12, arak, valk, tao etc. All of those stronger characters are getting addressed.

The high level tournaments I have seen no arakune wins simply by j.b spam. If you yomi'd an arakune doing j.b you should have 2c(i think thats the command for his double fisted anti air.) Now mind you if arakune can simply j.b everytime tager atomic collider. that fine but no other characters has a jump normal that good god like for the most part. So when tager AC's after whiffing a normal or a command grab and you jumped to avoid he can easily atomic collider most characters regardless of distance really easily even if they back air dash. Its espically retarded on rachel who is extremely floaty.

You mentioned Arakune and I told you about Arakune. Actually Arakune does j.B all the time on Tager and there is no reason not to so yeah they will be able to get far by just doing j.B jc j.B jc etc. 2C is so slow and even if you called out a j.B it still loses to it lmao. In CSE the pull on GF was really retarded since you could bring someone right beside you after you did a 5D and pushed them to the other side of the screen so if there's a nerf for pull, it should have been GF. Although I don't mind if they nerf AC and give him other combos.

[Alex073088]

[total impression based opinion] Even though Zanshin is very good against the characters you mentioned, and let us not forget Lambda and Mu. But for what I have seen, it's not like this match-ups are 80-20 for Hakumen. If they are going to nerf Hakumens most important (?) tool vs Carl/Relius which I would say is a 50/50 match-ups, they should nerf Hazamas/Valkenhayns/Taokakas movement as well, as they are at least 60/40 (probably 70/30) match-ups for Tager. [/total impression based opinion]

And I will still claim that ID > Zanshin.

Though, regarding the Zanshin nerfes, I think the 6D is the worst. I just don't understand it, especially as 5D seems to be delayable in some fashion.

No matches arent 80/20 but, hakumen last time I checked, is still s tier in extend simply because of his mix-up with stars and damage output overall. Aided with his ablility to use drive and combo off it when its successfully used.(execpt jump.d which is 2000 dmg alone). They before anything regarding any other character need to fix carl. Nirvanna, she doesnt use enough meter for actions, and hitting her doesnt take a respectable amount of her gauge away when she is being abused by carl players.

tao drive should most definitley have much more landing recovery, and im sure they are headed in that direction since many characters in p4u have landing recovery on certain air movement type moves(teddies drills, yosuke's aerial daggers.) Valkenhayn has already received a nerf in his drive from previous loketest though im not aware of how it factors into his movement. I definitley feel as though his wolf form shouldnt recharge right away.

hazama I can agree with as well, they definitely need to add landing recovery to his drive movement so that as soon as he lands, hes gets spark bolt or punished. But its up to you since you there to give these types of considerations to the devolopment team in terms of those particular three characters move options which are available to them for an overwhelemingly large portion of the match.

She is on bar with Tsubaki but not with the others. What i meant is that her design sucks, she go through a lot of guessing stuff to win in neutral which makes her wins unstable. You can see Kuresu going on a 30 winstreak rampage with Tsubaki while Goro is having a hard time getting a 10 winstreak.

I want to see loli Makoto soo bad now :3

Thats solely based on one person using her, that shouldnt ever be used as a judgement of a characters viability(let alone streaks). Theres still many great things about her, mainly the fact that she has one of the best jump in normals in the game. characters is hard to anti air. And your really suggesting that tager is much better then makoto overall? They both have trouble in many of the exact same match-ups.

Here's the thing; How is this a problem? Essentially, what you are saying is "Hakumen's drive is bad because it means that some characters can't do the same thing they do against the rest of the cast." That same logic can be applied to Inferno Divider, Noel's Drive, Tager's GETB, pretty much Arakune's entire character, etc. The game is about having diverse characters, where you can't fight the same way against character X as you do against character Y. It's not Litchi's god-given right to be able to do stickman oki on the entire cast, anymore than it's Tager's right to fight his opponent at close range. Some characters just have tools that work better against certain opponents than against others.

I don't think it's right or valuable to remove something that makes a character unique like this, particularly when the situations it generates are actually more interesting than "You MUST sit there and try to block my mixup that you can barely see because my attack is blocking your view of my character". It's not a question of whether making Hakumen have to block on wakeup "just like the rest of the cast" will "break" him, and more a question of "Why -shouldn't- there be a character who doesn't have to just suck it up and deal with brutal oki mixups?"

There's really no reason I can understand that Hakumen shouldn't be able to do what he does. The only reason thus far provided is the extremely subjective "I don't like that I can't do my oki on Hakumen" complaint, and truthfully "I don't like that I can do X to character Y" is one of the worst game design arguments imaginable.

The problem is his drive cannot be punished if baited correctly, those other reversals you mentioned all are punishable when baited and go through projectile oki. Not hakumens. Secondly as I mentioned above releasing his drive is hard to deal with against projectile oki or pressure making players have to give him way to much respect on the knockdown they earned. He still very much can use his drive(its always avaiable) immediatley on wakeup to get out of pressure, but if the opponent is doing nothing and its guarded then he his punished like every other character using a risky option on wake-up. Not even the fact that he gets out of pressure with it, he gets a combo off it without using meter. And he has other ways out when stars are available to him. Tell me why it shouldnt be toned down? Dont compare it to other character abilities because many other characters lost tool effectiveness over iterations.

If no one else in the game has these kinda of options why should hakumen? That is the real question here. For the sake of being different? If thats the case why change rachels cat chair to 5 frame start-up so you dont have ever have to worry about her using it on any tech? why change it so haku cant mash j.d in pressure and get a combo off it? Why change daisheren so you cant combo off the last hit? Its for balance reasons. since the whole cast are diverse and there something one character can abuse on every single member they nerf it. That way every one is a happy camper, and no one feels cheated. It be right or valueable shouldnt be considered either its about making the overall game enjoyable to everyone overall. Also hakument doesnt have to sit there and block no more then ragna does with the drive nerfs.

[WolfCrimson]

WTF gadget finger pull so strong

Tager will have no problem pulling in opponents now!

[SolarMisae]

Oh my! 4 new Amane vids. It's like Christmas! That move where he drops the top from the air, so awesome. Actually seeing his drive and potential combo fodder. The seeds are being planted yes they are. He's looking like he's gonna be way fun.

ilu Isuna for doing this.

[mAc Chaos]

must resist urge to troll thread into being locked

[zeth07]

The high level tournaments I have seen no arakune wins simply by j.b spam.

j.B: The Game

Just watch the rest of the match from that point on. Of course it depends on what kinda context you want to give to it when you say "simply" but still.

EDIT: And I found that by typing in "souji arakune j.b" in Google and that was the 1st video listed, so it wasn't even like I had to look very hard to find an example of why that move is retarded the way it is now in Extend.

It really only brought it up because of "souji arakune" though, but that still says something when the 1st video provides enough of an example.

11 j.Bs in 16 secs just in case someone doesn't want to sit through the whole thing.

[MetalMaelstrom]

Woah woah woah, hold the phone, Hakumen can 2B > 2A > 3C? He couldn't do that before, right?

Also, Tager j.D looks like it corner bounces based off the Tager v Amane video.

[Alex073088]

I don't understand why most people want to see good characters nerfed instead of bad characters buffed.

And Makoto isn't comparable to Rachel, Tsubaki, Tager and Jin all of these have strong ranged or midranged moves or more or less safe approach and don't have to take as much risk to approach like Makoto for basically the same or greater reward in most cases. If you want to win with her you have to greatly outplay the opponent on all fronts for most characters excluding mirrors.

Im trying to understand whats so bad about being able to properly bait a drive mashing hakumen, if there is projectile oki being used? And its about making the game balanced. Are you not happy they nerfed litchi's retarded oki from cs2? If what you stay stands, they we would still have ct rachel nu-13 and arakune. And I know its been a long time but dude playing against though characters was not fun at all. Lets say they did in fact only remotely buff, that still wont stop certain characters from abusing this that and the third against this characters. Making it so the person on the other end of the rape stick just has to deal with it. tager would never be truly viable if they only buffed. There so many things I cant tell you right now that mu-12 can abuse on rachel currently in extend, and I couldnt imagine having these issues everywhere.

You mentioned Arakune and I told you about Arakune. Actually Arakune does j.B all the time on Tager and there is no reason not to so yeah they will be able to get far by just doing j.B jc j.B jc etc. 2C is so slow and even if you called out a j.B it still loses to it lmao. In CSE the pull on GF was really retarded since you could bring someone right beside you after you did a 5D and pushed them to the other side of the screen so if there's a nerf for pull, it should have been GF. Although I don't mind if they nerf AC and give him other combos.

Your right, and you also seem to know what your talking about. Im glad we are having intellectual conversations on blazblue gameplay =). Gf im cool with, atleast you not put in a combo right away. even if they pull is the same, with it being hard to combo makes its pull fine. In general I think arakune's J.b should be tone down just a bit most characters have a hard time dealing with that normals.

[KayEff]

must resist urge to troll thread into being locked

i'm watching you you fucker

[Airk]

The problem is his drive cannot be punished if baited correctly, those other reversals you mentioned all are punishable when baited and go through projectile oki. Not hakumens.

I'm not a Hakumen expert here, but how is a move with 26 (6D) or 34 (2D) frames of recovery not punishable if baited? Certainly, I have never had trouble punishing these moves when I bait them, and I'm not exactly a high tier player. Or are you complaining that you can't "bait" these moves by autopiloting your projectile oki and then punishing by being too far away from him to hit you? Because that's a pretty bad definition of 'baiting'. Essentially, you are talking about hugely nerfing the functionality of a core portion of a character's gameplay because a small number of characters can't use one particular tool on him and are forced to play the wakeup game in the same way the rest of the cast does. That doesn't really breed sympathy from me. Those characters don't have some "right" to have tons stronger oki than the rest of the cast on every single character.

But yes, we should definitely nerf everyone in the whole game so that no one ever gets upset about their matches. I'm sorry, but the game you are pushing for would be terrible. The end.

Note: I'm not saying that the risk/reward on Hakumen's drive does or doesn't need adjusting (though I tend to lean towards "doesn't, because it really IS that punishable if you actually DO bait it.) but your proposal is excessive. Honestly, if you ask me, the only problem with Hakumen right now (i.e. "Why he is S tier") is just that he is too weighted on the reward side. His combos do tons of damage and tons of corner carry. Tone those down a bit and you have a perfectly fine character.

Edit: Long post made short. This is not the place for this.

[Alex073088]

j.B: The Game

Just watch the rest of the match from that point on. Of course it depends on what kinda context you want to give to it when you say "simply" but still.

EDIT: And I found that by typing in "souji arakune j.b" in Google and that was the 1st video listed, so it wasn't even like I had to look very hard to find an example of why that move is retarded the way it is now in Extend.

It really only brought it up because of "souji arakune" though, but that still says something when the 1st video provides enough of an example.

11 j.Bs in 16 secs just in case someone doesn't want to sit through the whole thing.

that was some ct looking crap honestly, j.b, or the casual j.c wouldnt be so bad if it didnt give 100% curse into death, or that getting curse was harder or lacking in dmg.