[CP] News & Gameplay Discussion (Old)

[Myoro]

not Kokonoe, according to Errol Bullet has 11K health. I suppose I should have been clearer.

[drzero7]

My first impression.

Kagura is SLOW. But that's expected. He have a huge hitbox of an attack, if he had a fast walk/run speed with that, he'll be broke.

Terumi looks broken in first impression. I hope I'm wrong but he seems to gain meter WAY TOO FAST. I know his Drive system is meter drain, (And he have like only 3 special and load of DD moves) but his meter drain system should be toned down like how Ragna's health drain system is.

Kokonoe looks very fun, and also seems to be a high learning curve char. Reminds me of Carl and Rachel style because of alot of potential set-up plays.

[Solless]

Sorry for going off topic again, but why is the game running that silky smooth at TGS? Is it the monitors (and where can I get one?), the systems the game is being run on, or am I just watching really high quality nicovideo? And most others up til now haven't been able to catch that smoothness?

[Kurushii]

Sorry for going off topic again, but why is the game running that silky smooth at TGS? Is it the monitors (and where can I get one?), the systems the game is being run on, or am I just watching really high quality nicovideo? And most others up til now haven't been able to catch that smoothness?

The 4gamer demonstration video was recorded at 60fps (59.94fps to be exact). Not every video is uploaded to nico is at that framerate. Youtube caps at 29.97fps, so if you are only watching reuploads then you are missing out. 4gamer is a media company that has access to higher filesizes than normal/premium users on nico. The game is only on PS3 so that's what it's being run on at TGS. Different monitors won't make a different on fps and how smooth it is. They'll only help with color/brightness and input delay.

[SuperOast]

Terumi only steals meter in OD.His drive just makes him get loads of heat (lol 14 heat with one D) And one of his supers uses up all the meter you have after the first 50 to make the attack stronger. Before Tgs I thought he was gonna be broken too, but if all his supers worked like this, he would seem pretty balanced to me.

[TekkamanArk]

Terumi only steals meter in OD.His drive just makes him get loads of heat (lol 14 heat with one D) And one of his supers uses up all the meter you have after the first 50 to make the attack stronger. Before Tgs I thought he was gonna be broken too, but if all his supers worked like this, he would seem pretty balanced to me.

It's only the 1 super, the rest are 50 as per usual.

[Starlight777]

not Kokonoe, according to Errol Bullet has 11K health. I suppose I should have been clearer.

Well I was totally mistaken. Coulda sworn she had less than that.

[SoWL]

Well I was totally mistaken. Coulda sworn she had less than that.

That's just the info we had from the initial jBBS impresions, it has been proven wrong ever since the frame data came out (and apparently, some people still missed it).

[BlackYakuzu94]

Did they change the intros for the console release? I don't recall Azrael drinking as one of his neutral intros.

[Starlight777]

Did they change the intros for the console release? I don't recall Azrael drinking as one of his neutral intros.

That one was always there.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Really? I've never seen it.

[stickystaines]

High Dan players playing on twitch.tv/adastream

Edit: Nevermind i think it just ended haha. Unless they are going to play casuals

[Luminos564]

Really? I've never seen it.

In most match videos I see, the players tend to skip the intros so it isn't much of a wonder why you may not have seen it until recently. But Azrael drinking something and then shattering the glass in his bare hand has always been there.

[mAc Chaos]

Are there any high quality versions of the new trailers?

[Solless]

Hell, are there any videos of Terumi's AF? oh, and Kokonoe's too.

[Kurushii]

Alright, I went back over all the footage of Kokonoe. This is the last report of her data from me till some more footage comes out.

-------------------

The Banishing Ray and Flame Cage stock restorations are directly tied to the same frame the move is no longer visible on the screen. Not active like I originally stated. The flying embers left around the opponent on Flame Cage hit/block don't count toward it, only the fireball itself.

-------------------

Backdash

Duration ~24f

Invul ~1-8

Airbrone ~6-16f

-------------------

Watching the footage and seeing these show up shocked me. I wasn't expecting this many positions. Seeing 3D show up to where I originally thought was 2D made me laugh. At this point i'm just going to assume she has one for every direction. Most likely won't know all the possibilities till release.

3D = Summons a Graviton near the opponents feet. Shown to have homing from half screen to full screen range.

j.6D = Summons a Graviton near the opponents head. Shown to have homing from half screen to full screen range.

j.4D = Summons a Graviton behind Kokonoe at waist level, about one body distance away.

j.3D = Summons a Graviton near the opponents feet. Shown to have homing from half screen to full screen range.

Graviton Activation

Damage is ~200 but the hitbox is very small

~38f of hitstun

-------------------

6A

~12f startup

6B

~28f startup

Chargable, holding B makes her continue to twirl the wrench

j.B

~8f startup

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Broken Bunker

Bunker i'm having a problem figuring out what's an A or B Bunker. Also sometimes I see the bomb explode in combo, and sometimes it's ~22f or so after the opponent air techs. I don't know if it's a charge, where you release the button to make it explode, or does A Bunker explode in combo and B doesn't? I've also noticed distance traveled for the uppercut be different in multiple uses. Sometimes it's about 2 body lengths forward, and others it's like more than half a screen forward.

Bomb Explosion ~32f of blockstun

Bomb Explosion is ~225 damage

Flame Cage

Flame Cage stock is recovered ~15f before opponent is out of hitstun. Same as blockstun as I previously stated.

Banishing Ray-A

Kokonoe total duration ~34f

~24f startup machine will set and the ray hits on the same frame

~26f of ray animation

~44f hitstun

~44f blockstun

~Causes float on hit

~106f after the ray is gone the machine will disappear and the stock is restored

Banishing Ray-B

Kokonoe total duration ~34f

~40f startup machine will set

~240f after set the machine will flash, or when an opponent is one body distance away

For ~20f the machine flashes then the ray hits

~36f of ray animation

~44f hitstun

~44f blockstun

~Causes float on hit

~76f after the ray is gone the machine will disappear and the stock is restored

-------------------

Golden Tager

~220f startup

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Combos:

5A > 5B > 5C > 3C > Bunker-A [2142/8%]

CH 2A > 2B > 3C [738/9%]

CH 2Ax2 > 2BB > 5B > 5C > 2C > Bunker-B [1714/13%]

2A > 2BB > 5B > 5C > 3C > Flame Belborg > Absolute Zero [2919/12%(-50%)3%]

5B > 6A > 5C > 2C > 3C [1705]

CH 5B > 5C > 3C > Bunker-A [2492/10%]

5B > 5C > 2C > Bunker-B [2536/11%]

CH 5B > 6A > 5B > 5C > 3C > Bunker-A [2776/20%]

CH 2BB > 5B > 5C > 3C [1621/12%]

Fire Cage Oki, Liar Haze > CH 2BB > (Flame Cage Hits) > 5B > 6A > 5C > 2C > (Bunker-A Whiffs) [2002]

Fire Cage Hit-Confirm, 2BB > 5B > 5C > 6A > 5C > Bunker-A [2028]

2BB > 5B > 5C > 3C > Bunker-A [2195/16%]

2BB > 5B > 6A > 5C > 3C > Flame Belborg > Absolute Zero [3402/13%(-50%)3%]

CH 6B, Absolute Zero [671+~2k chip]

6C > j.2C [1840/14%]

3C > Bunker-A [1745]

3C > Bunker-A > RC > Bunker-B [2254]

Fire Cage Oki, 3C > (Flame Cage Hits) > sj.BB > jc > j.BB > j.2C [2373/17%]

j.B > 5B > 6A > 5C > 2C > Bunker-B [2496/19%]

6B > Bunker-A [1515/11%]

-------------------

Blockstrings:

5B > 6A > 5B > 6B

2BB > 5B > 6A > 5C > 2C

5C > 3C > 5A > 5B > 5C

-------------------

Setups:

Some of these have been shown to work, but most are ideas with the knowledge I have so far of her move mechanics.

3C ender (Close Range)

Flame Cage, 66, Mixup (Standard option to keep pressure, shown works)

Flame Cage, Delay, 66, Liar Haze (Waiting for Flame Cage gets close before dashing in to crossup)

Absolute Zero (Opponent wakes up forcing to block a 2k+ chip)

Banishing Ray-A, Mixup (If they respect it and block then mixup. If you think they are going to wake up dp then bait them to and let them get hit by Ray-A, )

2D/5D/3D, 66, Crossup (Change up on graviton positions to confuse them what side they'll be pulled to, alternating your side the jump in will be)

5D > Activate (Use the graviton push to give some breathing room and setup the standard long range setups)

Bunker ender (Long Range)

6D > Flame Cage, Liar Haze (Standard crossup, shown works)

6D/3D > Banishing Ray, Activate (Push the opponent toward you into Banishing Ray, forcing them to block)

[-Seo]

I don't believe anyone has translated some of the info on Kagura, so I took a stab at some of the stuff on the jbbs. I'm a little unsure on some things, so feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

5A- Pretty standard 5A. Can be used as anti-air like Ragna/Hazama

6A- Overhead. Forces crouching state(?) Gattlings into 6B

5B- Short range. Hits low

6B- Big outwards kick(?) Gattlings into 5C

JB- Crosses up and is decent air-to-air(I'm unsure about this one honestly)

5C- Giant swing of the sword, Causes stagger on ground hit, can hit airbourne (again, unsure here)

2C- Sticks his sword straight out. Covers large area

6C- Takes a step forward and swings his sword upwards.

3C- Sweep. Shorter range than other C moves, but fairly quick. Causes a higher float than other sweeps(?)

JC- Huge downwards strike, staggers on ground hit, slams opponent to ground on air hit (Valk JC)

5D~A- Kagura throws his sword into the ground and punches it into the opponent. Has guard point and causes stagger on hit. Fatal counter.

5D~B- Command grab. Small range.

5D~C- Kagura swings the sword upwards twice. Throws the opponent behind Kagura if it hits. Second hit causes wall bound.

2D~A- Jumps up from a crouching posistion and slams the sword down. Overhead. Cannot be emergency teched.

2D~B- Sword surf. Two hits, first hit is low, second is mid. Emergency techable even on CH.

2D~C- Two downward strikes into the ground. Only the second hit is a low. Wallbounds.

6D~A- Dash forward and slash. Strikes at the opponents feet. Hits low, combo tool.

6D~B- Kagura slides under the opponent, and swaps sides with them. Hits low.

6D~C- Coats the sword in an aura and charges forwards. Forces knockdown on air hit(?)

Sonic Boom- A version is slow, but comes out quickly, 2 hits. B version comes out slower but lasts longer and picks up speed quicker(?). 3 hits.

Flash kick- Jumps upwards with his sword. Not as much invuln as other DP's(?). Hits multiple times. 1500 damage if all hits connect. Can be followed up on CH.

4(charge)41236+C- Causes pillas to raise from the ground, travels forward. Animation changes in OD. Around 2k raw damage + 800 for OD extension.

nD~28D- Slams sword into the ground and causes a huge pillar to raise veritcally. Possible in air. Around 2400 damage.

[FatalCounter]

I think I saw Kagura B fireball doing 5 hits. Yes, his 3C hit low, it is a sweep ans pretty good I should say, because you can cancel it to 2D and continue your combo.

I believe 5B and 5C don't combo unless your opponent is airbone. So his nomal combo is 5B > 6B > 5C >....

However 5B combo with 3C, so 5B > 3C > 2D(A/B/C) >.....

6C is hella slow but his range is amazing, at least we have a normal to use after 5C.

[Gespenst Ritter]

4(charge)41236+C- Causes pillas to raise from the ground, travels forward. Animation changes in OD.

Was there any indication of how this move performed in terms of frame advantage, blockstun, and/or damage? Any super-good properties to justify it requiring a charge?

[-Seo]

Was there any indication of how this move performed in terms of frame advantage, blockstun, and/or damage? Any super-good properties to justify it requiring a charge?

Around 2K damage raw (I think it hits 3 times max for this) and an extra 800 for the OD animation. I think someone was making a comparison to Sol's gunflame, but just animation wise. Odds are it's just used to add to the end of a combo, but it seems to have alright recovery, so maybe at the right distance it could put someone in blockstun long enough to get in again, but that's just my guess there.

[Surf]

Ive watched his videos a good number of times and heres a couple of things I can say for certain about him

- I know that only the 1st hit of 2D~B (the sword surf) is probably low but not the 2nd. In the demo matches the Kokonoe player blocked the 2nd attack while standing

- Regarding his stances, you can cancel a D normal into another stance but you cant repeat a stance twice in a chain. Stuff like 2D~A > 2D~C or 2D~C > 5D~C > 2D~A doesn't work. Looks like you have to go into a stance you haven't used. So in short, you can chain into all 3 but you cant repeat any stances. Seems like this stuff is allowed even on block. Showing the usefulness of 5D~A (guard point punch) since you can cancel into it if they try to punish an earlier blocked D normal and score a FC. 2D~A is his only D overhead but he has several lows.

- Reading his OD description, it sounds like it allows you to go into whatever you want as long as you didn't use the D normal in the chain beforehand. So the stuff i mentioned before actually becomes possible. As long as you didn't use the D normal yet you can go into whatever. Opening up new combo routes.

- His j.D's are pretty interesting. I almost missed when they were demonstrated by Pachi. Near the end of the video it shows that Kagura can, like it was mentioned before, maneuver himself with his j.xD's.

j.3/6D has him go downforward

j.2D has him go directly down to the ground

j.1/4D has him go down back, away from the opponent.

But the most interesting thing about this is that hes in his 5D stance upon landing. So things like j.2D~B(upon landing) will actually have 5D~B come out. j.D gats from j.C, so things like j.C j.2D~A (FC sword punch) or B (command grab) are possible.

But remember since hes in a stance he can immediately cancel into other stances upon landing as well. Evidence of this is in his BB Radio demonstration. One part shows him use command grab, which leaves him airborne, and go into j.2D. After he lands he goes straight into 6D~C to combo the opponent. So 5D~B > j.2D~6D~C for 2.4k. You can see it here.

- It looks like the most he can do without meter from 5C is just 2D~B (sword surf) for a knockdown. But with meter and corner he can RC the first hit of 2D~B and go into 6C. Granting him a full combo. Not sure what he can do from it midscreen. His meterless combo extender route like Fatalcounter said seems to be 5B > 3C > 2D~C > Combo. 3C gats from 5B and combos even on standing but I don't think it gats from 6B. From the jbbs info on 6A, his overhead, it says he can go into 6B specifically after it. And it specifically says he can do 5C after 6B. Probably meaning all he can do from a meterless midscreen overhead is 6A > 6B > 5C > 2D~B for 2k. That combo is also shown in the BB Radio here.

- 6D~A is a dash forward and a slash and can allow you to transition from D normals to regular normals. You can link 5B after it recovers. stuff like 2D~A (overhead) > 6D~A > 5B > 6B > 5C > 6D~C (thurst forward) or 6B > sj j.BC are possible. This combo route is used several times in the demo match videos

- It was said and shown that his drives are special cancelable. Ive seen his D normals special canceled into [2]8C but not [4]6A/B. It was also said that [4]6B is good oki, even stopping rolls (shits huge). Makes me wonder about the effectiveness of using certain drive enders to allow for enough untech time to [4]6A/B for oki.

- On the topic of [4]6A/B, they suck in the opponent on hit or block. Meaning it can also suck them out of the corner, similar to Jin 5B.

All I got from watching all his footage over and over again. He looks really really gdlk.

[-Seo]

- I know that only the 1st hit of 2D~B (the sword surf) is probably low but not the 2nd. In the demo matches the Kokonoe player blocked the 2nd attack while standing

Ahh right you are, that's my mistake there! There was a post on jbbs, but I believe it was just someone estimating his health to be 11.5k. Take that as you will.

It'd be nice to get some info on his 2B. He's already got like 6 lows, haha.

[FatalCounter]

@Surfeit, I agree with most of what you said, but I believe you are limiting his combo and damage possibility. Let me say this, I am sure Kagura will be between the most damaging character in game. When I think about the possibility of switching between stances and followups, I am confident even for midscreen combos.

For instance, If you switch between untechable, juggling and corner carrying followups, you can do some crazy stuffs. The only things I am analysing right now are frames of his followups, if they are a bit fast, we gonna do some works, believe me. lol

His 2B is pretty good, low profiling, something I noticed was the recovery. It seems to have a good one when I watched it for frames I would say at least 9 frames.

[Surf]

@Surfeit, I agree with most of what you said, but I believe you are limiting his combo and damage possibility. Let me say this, I am sure Kagura will be between the most damaging character in game. When I think about the possibility of switching between stances and followups, I am confident even for midscreen combos.

For instance, If you switch between untechable, juggling and corner carrying followups, you can do some crazy stuffs. The only things I am analysing right now are frames of his followups, if they are a bit fast, we gonna do some works, believe me.

Im just stating what I saw. You cant really go off what his average or max damage will be from this footage.

It'd be nice to get some info on his 2B. He's already got like 6 lows, haha.

I saw it a couple times. The range on it doesn't look very good. But I really like his 5B. Reminds me a lot of Ky 5K, and I think its the only standing low normal in the game besides Arakunes 4B. Wondering on info for his 2A as well. I saw it a couple times but Id just like to know if its a low or is self chainable.

I remember reading someone saying they saw a jp player say that the duration on his stance cancel (4D) is really slow. I dont think I saw any 4D in any of the footage out for him.

[Errol]

? there are tons of standing low normals in BB?