[CP] News & Gameplay Discussion (Old)

[Tokkan]

I don't even have a real answer to give you, Sol. To me they just look like they were added in "Just because". Other than that I genuinely have nothing else to back it up aside from my own opinion.

So what you're saying is, you think OD is a rushed untested mechanic "just because".

[BladeOfJustice7]

You get tsubaki, hotaru, zantetsu and yukikaze right off the bat if anything...

And his CT as well for extra damage or annoyance to keep an eye out for ...

Yes this is all assuming you can get in close to make use of that. IF you land zantetsu especially, your opponent will burst leaving you with one star, and without a burst. CT's don't play that but of a role defensively and in order to truly capitalize on CT in a combo with Hakumen you need about 5 stars anyways.

People will make it hard for you to get in to use those stars and if anything will try to make you waste it before they decide to attack.

EDIT: yuki, could you elaborate on your opinion on how it's rushed?

[YukiBlue]

So what you're saying is, you think OD is a rushed untested mechanic "just because".

Well done?

[Tokkan]

Well done?

You shouldn't really be going around claiming stuff were only added "just because" with your only reason for thinking that also being "just because". Baseless claims aren't constructive.

[C0R]

Neither is dissecting baseless claims.

Everyone please stay on topic.

[JokerAceX]

Team EXE is having some kind of tournament/ ranbat on twitch tv @ http://www.twitch.tv/team_exe and http://www.twitch.tv/team_exe2

[Nakkiel]

Yes this is all assuming you can get in close to make use of that. IF you land zantetsu especially, your opponent will burst leaving you with one star, and without a burst. CT's don't play that but of a role defensively and in order to truly capitalize on CT in a combo with Hakumen you need about 5 stars anyways.

People will make it hard for you to get in to use those stars and if anything will try to make you waste it before they decide to attack.

And they won't have a burst either so what's the big issue here? You're forcing a bigger defensive and offensive threat potential from your character by getting your options faster than normal. If they burst, so what? You dealt damage and made them blow their burst which also effectively reduces their offensive power.

[mitsuyoshi]

And they won't have a burst either so what's the big issue here? You're forcing a bigger defensive and offensive threat potential from your character by getting your options faster than normal. If they burst, so what? You dealt damage and made them blow their burst which also effectively reduces their offensive power.

Yeah,maybe their offensive power will reduces dramatically,but if you already using to many star,it will be difficult to keep attacking them.

[mAc Chaos]

I'd rather just save it for a 9k combo.

[Skye]

Is it so hard to fathom the simple rule that Hakumen will have more resources and thus better reward off of a hit?

Everything else is semantics and theory fighter. The fact of it is that in a usually neutral start, one starts off with more available options than usual.

Offensive and defensive.

[mAc Chaos]

It's different for Hakumen. We get free meter anyway, and faster than usual this time. You're basically saying to buy now what you can get for free a little while later. It could be more useful depending on the matchup but I still feel like it would be better spent later into the match. But it all depends, so yeah. I might rather even use the burst instead depending on if I'm fighting Mu or something with her huge damage.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Honestly with the rate Hakumen gets stars I'd likely stick to Burst/OD combo. I rarely ever lose on Hakumen because "I don't have enough stars!" I lose mainly just due to usual reasons like bad calls/being outplayed

[Nakkiel]

It's different for Hakumen. We get free meter anyway, and faster than usual this time. You're basically saying to buy now what you can get for free a little while later. It could be more useful depending on the matchup but I still feel like it would be better spent later into the match. But it all depends, so yeah. I might rather even use the burst instead depending on if I'm fighting Mu or something with her huge damage.

Obviously there are better uses but what I don't like seeing is how this option isn't good. It's a pretty scary thing to have Hakumen with 5+ stars a handful of seconds into a match.

[psycofang2]

its a good thing if played well but even then its weighing the out comes from your decision.

start of the match if you OD even if he has hotaru the chances of him not getting hit and losing the advantage isnt full proof, he'll have stars that he could have easily gained if he played it smart. now theres the possibilty that he could get hit from making the wrong call, which can happen all too easily, and get destroyed for it and put in a situation where a burst would have sufficed.

because a fact of the matter remains he only needs 2 to 3 stars to do really good damage (with ABSURD corner carry) and gain back what he uses anyway. people are playing it a little too much as a powerful starter, it is but it isnt.

the options he gains at the start of the round wont do him much, zantetsu is slow and reactable, renka is a low, tsubaki isnt that powerful unless in the corner now, and the only way for tsubaki>hotaru combo to work is if he pressures them close enough to the corner which would be tough, without using that meter.

by the time that happens, alot of time, hed have those stars anyway. alot of these are from the possibility of IF you can land those blows after blowing your OD. this situation puts more emphasis on makng the right call.

OD at the beginning of the round isnt necessarily bad, but its not necessarily good either, no matter what you say offensive choice vs defensive choice balances out via situation/ matchup. he could be scary at the start or he could be scary later on and keep the burst.

[Nakkiel]

Zantetsu is 21 frames, the same speed as hop Tsubaki. It's not slow at all. The animation is more obvious than his other, more lucrative mixup options and even then japanese players still get hit by it.

This option's value obviously changes depending on the matchup, if you're up against a character that doesn't have strong abare or is going to put you in a poor situation if you don't burst (although Hakumen doesn't really care about characters like Carl anyways), having these powerful resources available for little to no work MUCH faster than normal is something to consider. ODing at the start of the round and landing a 3C CH in a footsie battle gets you ~4.7K with 3 stars

It puts immediate pressure on the opponent with minimal stress on yourself. Not many characters, if any, have the kind of abare that Hakumen with 3+ stars does. Nor are you going to be okizeme'd to death, you have some superb defensive options that keeps your opponent guessing and you have a lot of life to cut through to top it all off.

[psycofang2]

snip.

doesnt matter if japanese or americans still get hit by it, it can still be reacted to and blocked, ch 3C isnt just going to fall out of the air either, thats why i put in my wall of text "IF you can land those blows after blowing your OD" its not a given its a possibility. hakumen has alot of hp and can take some punishment, i agree.

but why not save the burst and burst mid combo during a move they cant use to burst bait and get out of jail, waste more time and still build stars.

i wont deny his abare isnt amazing but like i said he only need 1 to 3 to actually make a dent in you anyway, a big one at that. im not dismissing your opinion as it is insightful but why take the risk? even vs characters that cant screw you up quickly, (Tager) they still get in, even on jp hakus if we are going to use that, and they win some and lose some.

im not saying the option is bad im saying its not as strong as its being made to seem.

even then he gets and even larger (a little retarded) reward for ODing mid combo. a massive game winning/securing combo than going for 3 extra stars at the start. he could play like he always does, space, possibly land a CH get a free meterless combo, with corner push, and gain. or play the spacing game and keep his burst or OD for when he really wants to hurt you.

so he could either Od at the start of the round , gain a total of 4 stars for a moderate damaging combo/reversal option, lose a burst,and a really strong combo option off practically anything, and possibly wont get it back until hes nearly dead and by then the enemy is expecting a burst, or play like normal, keep his burst and use it to defensively save his ass or kill off someone.

[Nakkiel]

Well generally most mixups can be reacted to and blocked, outside of fuzzy guards and to a lesser extent, low/airdash mixups. All I'm advocating here is that the option is, in my opinion, 100% viable but still remains just that. An option.

The if's and or's can also be said for ODing mid-combo. What if you never land that hit? What if you do but you're just never at that right positioning? These situations do come up, start of the round OD lends an alternative option to use. Most people complain when strategy becomes stagnant, I believe this option is a fine example of user decided variance. It's not super-powerful but it definitely has upsides.

[psycofang2]

It's not super-powerful but it definitely has upsides.

thank you and this statement was all i was trying to convey. its iffy like everything else, but its useful.

[Isuna]

I wonder if we will see Izayoi and Tsubaki players who like Hakumen "always" OD in the beginning of the round.

Zantetsu is 21 frames, the same speed as hop Tsubaki.

If nothing has changed, TK Tsubaki is 19F and step Tsubaki is 23 frames.

[mitsuyoshi]

I wonder if we will see Izayoi and Tsubaki players who like Hakumen "always" OD in the beginning of the round.

Well,that's depend on the player fighting style,so we can't see for sure until the game release on the console,but i think "always" using OD at the beginning of the round is kinda reckless,especially if you use Tsubaki

[Halcyone3]

Am I the only one that's kinda disappointed at the progress of OD overall? I mean, what have we got so far?

1- Hype hakumen combos

2- Free meter for some resource characters.

and that's kinda it. All I see it used other than that is to power up a finishing DD.

The couple times I've seen Jin try OD combos the enemy keeps teching in between. :/

[bakahyl]

Am I the only one that's kinda disappointed at the progress of OD overall? I mean, what have we got so far?

1- Hype hakumen combos

2- Free meter for some resource characters.

and that's kinda it. All I see it used other than that is to power up a finishing DD.

The couple times I've seen Jin try OD combos the enemy keeps teching in between. :/

I don't see any problems with the current OD. You have not lost anything after the removal of the "gold burst" mechanic.

Personally any kind of OD seem better than the gold bursts that we use to have.

Defensively both have start up invincibility (OD probably seem safer when completely whiffed/baited).

Offensively both of them gave the player very situational combo damage increases. Except that OD's are probably less situational than gold bursts for combo's and OD combo's cannot be bursted.

Also OD's might have some usage outside of what gold bursts could do like character specific boosts.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

You can also use ODs to confirm blocks/reversals (like Tager/Bullet 720 and whatever else), and stop the clock to make up a life difference. So there's a little more to it than that. I certainly like it better than Gold Burst at least.

[Halcyone3]

I don't mean I'm disappointed in it's usefulness. It's definitely useful and way better than gold burst. I'm disappointed at the lack of progress in finding great stuff to do with it. We don't really have any too cool tricks with the improved move properties yet really.

I just figured with the changed move properties we would be seeing some interesting set-ups and combo paths, but we have very little of that. Meh, guess I just had much larger expectations that I should have :V

[bakahyl]

I was never expecting the new OD's to be in the same league as MvC3's X-factor, because OD's are less gamebreaking and overpowered and you need to sacrifice one of your defensive resources to use them. So far the rewards of using them don't seem to outweigh the potential risk of losing your burst.