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TagerTime

[CP] Iron Tager Changelog

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Hey all of you Tager Bros! The announcement of the next BB game means that its finally Tager Hype Time once again! In BBCSX they finally made Tager an actual good character for once, contrary to the low expectations of several people in this forum. Despite that Tager still has a few glaring weaknesses that need to be fixed. Here is a list of the currently known changes. Thanks to everyone that went to the location test and those who helped translate!

Currently known BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma Tager Changes

Final arcade release version notes:

character combo rate increased to 60% :yaaay:

Damage and Proration Data Table: http://www.famitsu.com/cominy/?m=pc&a=page_fh_diary&target_c_diary_id=44565

During OD, off midscreen A Driver we can pick up with 5B>4D which bounces them back, so there's probably more we can follow up with after.

Despite not having head invuln anymore, 2C untechable time on counter is long, making it usually favorable even on trade.

D moves seem to have no damage change during OD.

B Driver>Gadget>rc seems to leads to pretty good damage.

B Driver>Gadget>rc>2C>Collider>Diagonal Spark>Wheel did over 5100.

Tager's CT is chargable, but it doesn't have any magnetic pull. Staggers on hit.

You can throw after a guard crush, but do note that the stagger can be teched.

A guard crush can be confirmed into OD>GETB for an unburstable 5600.

JC movement>Gurren results in some pretty interesting movements.

JC momentum carries over to Gurren, allowing you to fly about double the distance of regular JC movement.

You can use it to hit people who try to punish your JC movement recovery, or just use it to cover large distances (for Tager) in one go, etc.

Of course, you're wide open on block so it's a bit of a gamble if you don't have 50% meter, but if you do it from midrange, Gurren sort of crosses over and does a hit-and-away, making it not easily punishable even on block.

Additionally, Gurren starter RC combos do pretty good damage, so going on the offensive with it when you have 50% meter might not be a bad option.

Loketest 4 changes (NEW!!):

AS = A Sledge,

BS = B Sledge,

AD = A Drive,

BD = B Drive,

CD = C Drive,

GF = Gadget Finger,

AC = Atomic Collider,

dl = Delay

HM = Hammer

Normals

  • 5A、5B、5C、JA、JB、JC、2A、2B、3C、6A: No changes as far as I can tell.
  • The magnetism time increase for all D moves has gotten pretty short. Pull on all moves seem unchanged?
  • 5D: Knocks away on ground hit.
  • JD: Knocks them away forward. Causes wall bounce on air normal hit. Air counter hit causes wall stick.
  • J2C: Counter hit causes floor bounce. 3C doesn't connect on air normal hit? Fatal confirmed
  • 2C: Untechable time on normal hit increased. Delay AS connects. FC property removed.
  • 2D: Causes sliding down on air normal hit. 5A connects in corner. Depending on character (or magnetism) 5B connects too. Now has repeat proration.
  • 4D: Causes wall bounce on air normal hit. Repeat proration added.
  • 6B: Jump cancelable only on hit. Air hit causes ground bounce. JB, JD, 6C, etc goes into J2C on air hit.
  • 6C: Doesn't knock away on ground hit. AS connects. Causes ground bounce on air hit? J2C, JD, JB, Collider, etc connect. Seems to now have a minimum range? In exchange, hitbox looks like it extends quite a bit farther and higher.
  • Throw: Launch is low. Special cancelable, but after an as-soon-as-possible BS nothing else connects. Collider might be the only followup?
  • Back throw: Unknown. 5C connects.
  • Air Throw: Can combo after,Comes out fast,Can go straight into Wheel for anti-burst
  • CA: Emergency techable after the down. Recovery is reduced, so it's maybe even (frame-wise) or better if emergency teched? Nothing really connects even if you RC it.


    Specials
    • Charge, GF: No changes?
    • Spark: Bounces back enough that you can pick up with 5C even on normal hit. Depending on distance, 5C>6B pickup works as well?
    • AS,BS: Launch strength decreased?
    • HM: Active frames, good P1 both still present. No particular changes?
    • A Driver - 2700 damage
    • B Driver 3500 damage
    • C Driver 2800 damage
    • The only thing that connects after each is Gadget

      Collider:
      Opponent can now tech before hitting the ground and also emergency tech. On the other hand, opponents count as "downed" without having to purposely set them up as such, allowing Gadget to connect even straight from Collider. There's not much in the way of followup. Midscreen, without magnetism, meter, or Spark, 2D may very well be the only thing it goes into. When not magnetized, Spark works. When magnetized, 6A seems to work? In the corner, you can go into 5B from the 2D. 3C Collider whiff launch strength is low, making J2C not work. Seems best to go into delay 5B, delay 5C>6B, or as soon as possible 6B instead. If your back is to the wall, Wheel connects. As soon as possible 6C>5D connects on some characters (or magnetism).


      After Midscreen Collider -

      Connects unmagnetized: 2D, Spark

      Connects magnetized: 2D, Spark, Gadget, 5D



      DD

      • GETB: Damage decreased to 5020. Pull is unchanged.
      • Wheel, Terra Break: Terra Break doesn't cause bounceback and just knocks them away.


        New Stuff

        Angled Spark:
        The hitbox is enough to make it hit even a grounded opponent up to mid-range. Easy to follow up after with stuff like 5C, Collider.



        C Driver:
        Can be held to keep pulling. Even at mid~long range, magnetized it has about as much suction as Collider, but it can cause the opponent to fly off or circle around you. The actual throw hitbox is on the small side? Especially in the vertical direction I think. You can't use it during jump startup, so it's a little tough to use on reaction to an opponent's jump. No invincibility? After hitting with it, only GF connects. Both held and non-held versions have pretty long landing recovery. After CD, you can't do anything until you land. If you don't hold it you'll retain your jump momentum, and if you do you'll lose it and stop in place. As expected, it's weak against 6A-type ground anti-airs. You can sort of use it like Collider to counter low air dashes, bait techs, or pull magnetized people out of high jumps, etc. It's main merits are that it has higher returns compared to Collider, connects with no problems if they're in range, and is less succeptable to punishes/combos because Tager himself is in the air. When pulling someone in, even if you get ch it's hard for them to follow up. It's easier to land if the opponent is higher up than you are. It also exerts a slight pull on opponents on the ground as well.



        Grand Punish:
        Looks like an overhead but is actually a mid. Can be canceled into from all jump attacks except J2C. If the arm sweep hits he goes into the body press motion. Regardless of how high it's done, you can't do anything until you hit the ground. Because of that, it's probably heavily minus on block? Startup is relatively fast, so if you have meter it might be viable as an air-to-ground move? Either way, it's doesn't seem like a good move to randomly throw out during footsies. It can be RCed both before and after the body press, so it may have combo potential. Minimum damage is around 500. In midscreen combos you can magnetize with JD and then finish with Gurren, so it's pretty nice. After Gurren you might be at a frame advantage? Although dealing with the opponent's teching seems like a pain. If they roll tech as soon as possible that's probably a guarranteed GETB. Low air Gurren (blocked)RC might work as a JB/low/throw 3 way mixup?



        Crush Trigger:
        Puts them behind you on hit, so a distance opens up even if you hit at super close range. Can be followed up with stuff like 5D.

        Probably makes throws purple. Needs investigation. Has repeat proration.



        Over Drive:

        • Has a slight, constant pull on magnetized opponents. Pull is around that of or slightly more than a held 6A when you just start holding it. It also changes the various D moves.

        • 5D: Triggers the counterhit effect even on normal hit and causes the opponent to bounce back. This works even in combos.

        • 4D: Same as 5D. In the corner, doing ~5B>4D causes them to bounce away overhead.

        • 2D: Causes opponent to fly away on normal hit (sliding down). Looks weak.

        • JD: Both ground and air hits cause the opponent to follow the 5D trajectory and come back. Looks strong.

        • Reversal OD activation→Check situation⇒GETB/Wheel seems doable.

        • During OD, electric gauge fills rapidly. What normally takes about 20 counts to fill takes maybe 5? Although it doesn't fill during combos (goes back to original speed?).

        • If your health is in the red, OD lasts relatively long.

        • Activation can be canceled into from all normals besides 4D, 2D. Can't be done from specials.



          DD Changes
          -

          • Wheel: Non-OD raw damage 2512. In OD, hit count and damage goes up.

          • Terra Break: Non-OD version doesn't cause bounceback on hit. OD version causes bounceback.

          • Non-OD Wheel>Terra Break damage: 3659

          • OD Wheel>Terra Break damage: 4112

          • 5B>5C doesn't connect.

          • GETB:Non-OD damage 5020. OD damage 5620? The lines for GETB changed. He says something like "The gatekeepers of hell are waiting for you!" (I forget the rest)

          • If you're going to OD mid-combo, it seems best to OD from a magnetized raw Collider. 5D after will (probably) connect and trigger the counter effect, causing them to bounce back and continuing the combo. OD activation disables bursting as well, which is another advantage.




            Combos

            Unmagnetized or not magnetism-dependant
            3C>AS>5A>JA>JD:
            Air finisher. Gurren doesn't connect after this.

            2B>2C>dlAS>5C>6A>Collider>2D>GF whiff>Air finisher:2970
            Can't end with GF. dl might not be needed depending on character?

            6B>5D>BS>HM>5B>4D>5C>6B>JB>JD>Gurren:2890dm
            Only works near corner. Overhead starter, magnetizes 3 times, and can end with Gurren if in corner.

            6C>AS>5A>5B>5C>6A>3C>GF:3018dm
            Can be done midscreen. Overhead starter. 5C>6A can be taken out depending on distance.

            2B>2C>dlAS>dl5C>6B>JB>JD>Gurren:3400dm?
            Corner only. AC isn't used so there's no side switching, Gurren ender works.

            HMch>6C>J2C>5B>5C>AC>2D:3662dm
            A slapped-together combo with 2D finisher.

            Whatever~AC>2D
            Midscreen after Collider, pretty much all you can do is 2D ender or combo with Spark.

            2B>2C>AC>2D>5B>4D>5C>6B>JB(>JD>Gurren):3400dm
            Back to wall, character specific(If the character isn't large enough the 5B after 2D doesn't hit).

            2B>2C>dlAS>5C>6A>AC>2D>5A>4D>5C>6B>JD>Gurren:3359d m
            Back to wall, switches sides, applies magnetism thrice, Gurren ender.

            2B>2C>AC>2D>5A>4D>5C>6B>JD>Gurren:3395
            Back to wall, applies magnetism 3 times, Gurren ender. Probably works on all characters.

            Spark>5C>6A>2C>AC>GF:2296?

            Spark>5C>6B>J2C>5B>5C>6A>AC>GF:2898
            If you're on opposite sides of the screen 5C only hits with the tip, and the rest of the combo fails. If 5C makes a meaty connect it will work. Works with angled Spark as well.

            Magnetized
            5A>5B>3C>AC whiff>5B>JB>JC>Gurren:2113dm

            5A>5B>(5C>6A>)3C>AC whiff>6B>6C>JD>Gurren:2900dm(3304dm)
            JB>JD doesn't connect if proration is tight.

            (5A>5B>)5C>6A>3C>AC whiff>6B>6C>AC>GF: (3034) 64 heat
            Requires magnetism. Not sure whether this or the Gurren combo does more.

            (5A>5B>) 5C>6A>3C>AC>6B>6C>J2C>5B>5C>6A>AC>GF: ()4131dm
            Doesn't work off 5A starter?

            2B>2C>dlAS>5C>6A>AC>GF:2797

            2B>2C>AC>6C>JD>Gurren:3280dm
            If your back is to the wall and they're not magnetized JD doesn't seem to connect.

            6C>AS>5A>5C>6A>3C>AC whiff>6B>J2C>GF:3600dm
            Overhead starter. GF ender.

            Meter
            2B>2C>dlAS>5C>6A>AC>Spark>Wheel:3888dm
            Does around 4900 with Terra Break

            5C>6A>3C>AC whiff>5C>Wheel:4113dm
            Midscreen starter, no Spark. AC whiff>6B>6C will probably do more.

            2B>2C>AC>2D>5A>4D>5C>6B>Wheel:3500dm,
            Back to wall, does around 4580dm with Terra Break

            2B>2C>dlAS>dl5C>6B>4D>5C>6B>Wheel:
            Corner

            5C>6A>3C>Koreda sky>6B>6C>J2C>2B>2C>Koreda>Spark>Wheel>Terra Break 6555 Damage


            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Loketest 2 changes (Old):
            Normals

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Give me 60% combo rate so I can do more than 5K off a fatal please.

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Kinda weird to have a wishlist thread when we're going to have the loketest as soon as tomorrow.

Anyways, I hope that the new move will be useful in combos. I expect it to be similar to Platinum's Falling Melody for some reason.

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Kinda weird to have a wishlist thread when we're going to have the loketest as soon as tomorrow.

Anyways, I hope that the new move will be useful in combos. I expect it to be similar to Platinum's Falling Melody for some reason.

If you run the trailer in frame by frame it really looks like Tagers new Body slam move is an air command grab. i sure hope so cuz it was realy stupid that he never had one in the first place.

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- That they don't nerf Tager back to hell

- Double jump (why doesn't he have this yet?)

- Make the magnetism on 6A and 2D better (It's a complete joke right now). All the other magnetism moves are good enough.

- A GOOD Anti-Air

- A way Tager can deal with characters who can just get a health lead and time him out (assuming they can. if they can't in CP, then don't bother)

More to come

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If you run the trailer in frame by frame it really looks like Tagers new Body slam move is an air command grab. i sure hope so cuz it was realy stupid that he never had one in the first place.
It looks more like a regular air throw into a body slam to me. The body slam didn't even combo. The combo count and number stay at 2, and switches sides which matches up with an air throw.

The damage is different from current airthrow damage though.

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It looks more like a regular air throw into a body slam to me. The body slam didn't even combo. The combo count and number stay at 2, and switches sides which matches up with an air throw.

The damage is different from current airthrow damage though.

Well hopefully we find out on monday.

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I don't know if that's what we saw but one of the new moves is Air Driver 360C IN THE AIR. He has another air move which Could be the body slam, but who cares, we have an air command throw+mystery air move.

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Anybody else wonder about that "alternate input" for Spark Bolt? Certainly there aren't just two ways to do the same spark bolt. Here's hoping the 623 version does something different. I'm guessing either anti-air spark or some kind of reversal. Both would be incredibly welcome.

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Just came back from the loketest. Didn't play because of the one hour queue, but I got to see some Tager in action.

360C is Tager Driver in the air. Can be delayed, supposedly attracting magnetized opponents, with Tager standing in the air, looks rather silly, but what the hell. Guess this can be TK'd? o.o

Collider bounces opponent higher and closer to you. Not sure what the standard follow-up is.

jump JC > J2C does not seem possible. Maybe the lowered his jump height or JC is slower. Or the players just weren't good enough. But Tager seem to land before you could do anything after JC.

623D is a diagonal Spark Bolt. (Y)

Overdrive magnetizes opponent whereever they are. (Y)

Wasn't in the loketest. (Y)

Tager to S-tier?

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Since Tager now doesn't have a golden burst to get a reversal combo, I hope that the DP spark has some invulnerable frames in it. Would be a great way to substitute the burst while still being balanced by the spark gauge.

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So we lost j.C>j.2C? Well we lost an old combo route.

Alternative just might make our non mag combos easier.

I just wanna use more than 1 AC in a combo for the heat.

Thanks for the info Isuna.

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How diagonal exactly? Like would you hit someone trying to jump away thinking you're doing the normal spark bolt?

This. If it isn't to severe, we could hit people in the air at nearly fullscreen. I'd hate for the bolt to fly up at too much of an extreme angle, or else we'd end up with people like hazama jumping into the "dead zone" and then just chaining us with impunity from there.

Thanks Isuna! Good to have one of ours over there.

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thanks for the info Isuna!. The 360C air driver is going to be cool. Also has anyone confirmed what 63214a is

That belly flop, I guess?

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Can someone translate this?

jc対応技はどうなってんだろうね。6Aのjc返して!

あと、Cドラは各種ドラと似たような感じで使えるのかな?

グランパニッシュは全く想像が付かない。ロケテ組たのんます

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No one expected any new jump cancels, but 6A actually got it back.

It also seems that aerial 360 can be followed up in the same fashion as the regular 360s?

Can't remember anything about Grand Punishment, will have to go to the loketest again to give any info on it.

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