[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[Valthazeryus]

I could've sworn I thought I saw Isuna upload a Rachel match.

[tofurr]

I really like the change to j.236a, and from what I saw with 236b, the added bit of push back for it put them right over the rod. Maybe a follow up j.214c/2147c is possible and then a follow up from there?

[Minutes]

Here's to hoping that lolicon combo will be reinstated in the final version. It's so badass to do ;_;

Also, I wish we could see if frog-football still works.

[swordiris]

I just realized something.

Since one of her new moves has the input 22B and that is currently the input for Rachel's astral, does that mean we will get a new one? The input was changed at least.

[Alex073088]

its three 2 meaning 222b, the only thing you should worry about is getting that move instead of a lobelia. In ct getting sword iris when it was 22a when doing 236a was very common with rachel

[gamester]

Keeping tabs on Isuna's twitter. TD isn't lvl 4/5 I guess when OverDrive is in affect. https://twitter.com/HasekuraIsuna/status/238972771403710465

[gamester]

Sorry for double post. 5CC wallsticks and does massive damage according to Isuna https://twitter.com/HasekuraIsuna/status/238962251640487937

EDIT: Yeah, I've just checked out some Loketest 2 Rachel match ups Isuna has recently uploaded. Thought I'd directly link to the matches for the thread here.

Jin VS Rachel

Amane VS Rachel

Thought I'd link here if anyone wants to jump directly to the Rachel footage.

[tofurr]

Things I noticed...

In Jin video:

5CC sticks your opponent to the wall in the corner

@ around 0:38, the j.236a looks like it bounced off the wall.

Did the bat do anything @1:36? They're used later on and it looks like they stay on screen even if your hit.

Wow, the opponent goes so high for 3C8D? Or did the bat do that? People kept walking in the way so I couldn't really tell what was going on.

VS Amane:

Lobelia's definitely wall bounce.

5B, 5CC, frog, 5b, 236a doesn't work. I doubt 3c will work either do to the new wall bound in the corner.

[Kuuhaku]

To throw in things I notice. Lobelias no longer float on hit and even on counter hit looks like they're hard to combo off of. You might just need to go straight into sword iris and combo. The j.2C BnB is still possible, so timing might be more strict due to how lobelia hits now. Wall bouncing lobelia is pretty funny and the lobelia is still active even after it bounces off the wall. And the helicopter bats home and stay out even if Rachel is hit.

[TD]

theory... the lobelia's bouncing off walls... l think those lotus moves are going to be in her corner bnb's. wow at 5cc wallstick though... throw is now cancelable, 1:35 vs amane. still not idea wtf the lotus moves do. the suspense....

[tofurr]

And it apparently does a lot of damage too (5CC)! it was hard to make out damage values in the first video against Jin, but it looked like they easily did over 4k.

[gamester]

What caught my attention with the bats is when the opponent is blocking them. I think it'll be a bit like when the opponent blocks george activation, free mix up possibly? I'm seeing this around 2:55 against Jin.

[WolfCrimson]

Can the bats be sword iris'd?

[FR05tB1t3 BOB]

So what exactly do the bats do?

[tofurr]

We don't really know yet.

[Yaaay]

Rachel vs Amane 4:25 - Rachel activates the bat with her new move (22A/22B) where she hold the umbrella in front of her while the wind blows through her (the activation move doesn't consume any wind though). With the same move she orders the bat to hit Amane: the bat confirms two (counter) hits on Amane. He appears barely stunned.

Ugh I hate 22-inputs though DX

Wow, the opponent goes so high for 3C8D? Or did the bat do that? People kept walking in the way so I couldn't really tell what was going on.

That was definitely the wind. It blows them really high indeed o_o

[tofurr]

I just requested a large post about Rachel be translated. The only thing I got from it was that 222B is no longer the input for her Astral.

[Tari]

Rachel vs Amane 4:25 - Rachel activates the bat with her new move (22A/22B) where she hold the umbrella in front of her while the wind blows through her (the activation move doesn't consume any wind though). With the same move she orders the bat to hit Amane: the bat confirms two (counter) hits on Amane. He appears barely stunned.

I recall people saying the bat stun was very short somewhere, but I could be wrong. I'm hoping that the reason the stun ended was because Rachel got hit immediately or something, but it probably isn't.

[Chiizu]

I just requested a large post about Rachel be translated. The only thing I got from it was that 222B is no longer the input for her Astral.

Link? I'll see what I can do.

[tofurr]

Pumpkin

- Pumpkin sideways move distance is now around 4/5 of original

- Pumpkin movespeed unchanged

- Pumpkin guardstun is slightly shorter

- Overall frames for summoning a pumpkin slightly longer

Frog

- Overall frames for summoning frog slightly shorter

Lobelia

- A Lobelia and C Lobelia distance is shorter

- Aerial A Lobelia now reaches from screen edge to screen edge

- Even if you hit, you can't really follow up ABC air Lobelia from midscreen anymore

- Hitting with Lobelia knocks the opponent down at a pretty steep slant

- Hitting with air BC causes a hard knockdown

- ＞３Ｃ＞various Lobelia for followup doesn't work anymore

４Ｂ

- 4B normal hit causes bound, allowing for pickup with 5A, etc.

- All you can do after 4B is blocked is special cancel, so punishment with snakes, etc is guaranteed

- After 5CC's wallslide, 4B>5B connects

Lotus

- Lotus sends a number of bats? after the opponent equal to the number of poles out

- No difference in effect even if you hit with 3

- Using Lotus in the air leaves you with a horrible amount of recovery

High-speed Overhead

- High-speed overhead worked on Litchi (I might have unconciously delayed it)

On Platinum midscreen, 3C>Lily full hit confirmed (It seemed to full hit on all the characters I fought with)

The effect got thinner, but it didn't really seem to miss much.

Wind Lv1 J2C seems impossible

Other

- On ground, OD recovers 4

- 6B jc now possible

- Lv2 J2C > B Lob > etc was easier than expected (JC after lob felt a little strange)

- Non-delayed JC in the above hit on Hakumen (might've unconciously delayed)

- AH doesn't activate with 222B

- Probably no changes to chair

- Feels like dash starting speed got increased

- Opponent falls faster than expected from 6A counter. (Game speed) increased, so this seems to be the case on all characters.

Corner

- I wasn't able to confirm 2A>5B>5CD>C followup>Frog>3C pickup

- 5B>5CDC>4B>5B>JB>JC>jc>2D>JC>Lily>Pumpkin>3C>Frog was about all I could do

- 2A>5B>5CD>C followup>4B>Frog for oki seems to be pretty stable

- Might be able to do frog oki from 5B>5CD>C followup>4B>Frog>5B>JC>jc>J2C

3C repeat proration is a lot worse than expected

3CC>3C>5B>aerial becomes techable in the aerial portion.

[swordiris]

Thank you, These changes were very helpful.

I predict Rachel is going to be very powerful in CP. Might rival her CT counterpart.

[Alex073088]

Thank you, These changes were very helpful.

I predict Rachel is going to be very powerful in CP. Might rival her CT counterpart.

How did you get that prediction? Most of those changes were nerfs, right now in extend she is her closest to cs1, heck some of the same combos are doing more damage in cs1 then they are in extend. Theres nothing im my opinion giving her a decent boost in offense or defense from those changes. I think cs2 will always probabdly be her closes to ct.

[swordiris]

Yeah but you have to factor in that Everyone is getting nerfed for this game. Rachel is just getting nerfed less.

Pumpkin got hit the hardest but still looks viable. The lobelia distance changes aren't really nerfs they are just changes and we will have to get used to them while zoning. I also like the frog having less frames.

J.2C being an overhead looks exciting, also the fact that lvl 1's are impossible with wind is actually a buff since it is an guaranteed lvl 2 everytime wind is used. 6B jump cancel equals even more mixup potential. 4B fatal counters now so I'd be interested to see the possibilities. I also predict that the 5CC wallstick will be very powerful when it comes to corner combos.

Her zoning seems just as strong as ever. I would need to see the competitive potential of Lotus first though.

Mori says he wants combos to be shorter in general to make the game fast paced. Rachel was never about combos anyway (At least compared to much of the cast.) This is another reason why I believe Rachel will be very competitive.

[Alex073088]

J.2c being overhead has been confirmed yet has? And your right about she not being hit with hard nerfs, but in general any more nerfs would render us closer and closer to wheel chair status again. Currently rachel is very very balanced, there just many other unbalanced properties to other characters which need addressing(like adding landing recovery to other aerial special moves, making all projectile like move disappear when said character is attack ex litchi and mu-12.)

[swordiris]

No you are right j.2C Being OH isn't confirmed yet.

Even so keep in mind CP is a different type of game than the others. What looks bad is actually probably better than you think (since every characters getting nerfs) and this looks like a mixed bag. We are no where close to CS1 Rachel. I looked on the archives for Rachel nerfs during CS1 for the lols. They are mind boggling and this isn't anywhere near that bad.