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[P4A] Labrys vs Mitsuru

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Labrys_Vs_Mitsuru_Header.png

Please use this thread to discuss and contribute to this matchup. Information will be added to the main post as information comes. Keep in mind that strats will be changed as the game evolves.

Please refer to Mitsuru Kirijo Wiki if you would like to know more indepth information such as frame data etc.

The Neutral Game

At neutral you don't have many options without putting yourself in a very unsafe situation, from full screen Mitsuru can use 5D/2D to pull you (this will catch you whiffing j.B or chicken blocking). She can also charge her Coup Droit ([4]6A/B) to close the gap between you two and apply pressure. At neutral you're best tool will be a properly spaced 5C, if you're feeling confident and want to make some gambles IAD j.B is a good way in depending on the range between yourself and Mitsuru. From full screen Tsurugi is good but don't use it too often if youre opponent catches on to it then can react and punish you with 5D. 236A/B is also a good poke in remember that both follow ups are unsafe and can be punished by Mitsuru.

Besides this you have to block alot, keep yourself safe but also keep in mind you have to make your way in as well so at some point you're going to have to take some risks.

Offense

Your Offense:

Our offense is VERY LIMITED in this match up, Mitsuru can easily DP out of any of even our smallest gaps in our block strings making things such as our 5A > 5B useless. Our j.B can be stuffed out by Mitsurus 2B, 2D and j.A. We can space her out though with 5C like we do in most matchups but we can't possibly relay on that forever.

j.A with proper react can beat out about all of Mitsurus air to airs point blank however is susceptible to CH by any other range.

Due to Mitsurus absurd range Ariadne may more than likely be victim to Persona Break(s), in the corner try not to use your persona too close to the corner as Mitsuru can easily DP or poke out to break a primer.

Her Offense:

A very noticeable move you will see when fighting against Mitsuru is her Coup Droit ([4]6A/B). While both versions of this move is unsafe on block you can opt to punish her with 5A before she can get her own 5A mash out however keep in mind she has the following options after an A Coup Droit:

  • j.C (Beats Throws)
  • 5AAA (Stops chickening blocking or jump out attempts)
  • Getsu-ei (B+D, aka DP) (Beats mashing or our attempts to punish)
  • Throw (Beats Block and Roll, 2f tech window)
  • All Out Attack (Beats Low Mash and Throws / One hit of Guard Point)
  • j.B (This will punish various things such as throw/tech attempt's, whiffed normals/punishes etc)
    This is something thats too risky to just guess and gamble on, wait to see what your opponent does after a couple Coup Droit attempts and punish them for their habits.

    One of Mitsurus moves you must absolutely respect under pressure is her 5B into Sweep which can be feinted. Lets review both moves quickly; 5B can avoid low attacks and throw attempts as well as has Fatal Counter properties, she can control which direction she hops (forward or back) depending on the direction she holds while inputting it such as 4/5/6B. She when using it in her pressure strings we can't poke her out of it so theres no point in attempting to risk it ... keep blocking. Next you must worry about her Sweep which is usually followed up after 5B, she can hold A+B to instead use a feint and where she has many options much like her A Coup Droit:
    • Throw (Beats Block and Roll, 2f tech window)
    • 4/5/6B (Beats 2A pokes and Throw Attempts / Remember Fatal Counter Properties)
    • j.B (Instant Overhead / This will punish various things such as throw/tech attempt's, whiffed normals/punishes etc)

    She can also commit to the sweep and follow up with B Coup Droit however this is very negative on block so you can punish this or jump out back to neutral. Mitsuru players who are anticipating a punish will cancel into DP however if you can bait it out or block it you can punish her on her landing.

    Mitsurus 5C can fall under the same category with various follow ups, after applying pressure with the about of hits 5C Mitsuru's tend to opt for the following options:

    [*]Sweep (Feint)

    [*]Coup Droit

    [*]2C (Marin Karin)

    You can catch Mitsuru if she Feints or does 2C however if you try to punish too early you could also get hit with Sweep or Droit.

    After knockdown Mitsurus will also use Bufula ([2]8C/D) to force you to block and then proceed with his mix up which could be one of her various lows or IOH j.Bs. Keep you're eye out for the SB version that shows up behind you (alot of the time offscreen so you can't see it.)

    Defense

    Your Defense:

    While her offense does sound intimidating keep in mind she has to keep doing something, the only jump cancellable moves she has are 5AAAA and 2B so if you see a 5A incoming if you're reaction is fast enough you can probably catch them with Labrys DP however don't try to throw this out everytime. Alternatively our 2B and Sweep go right under Mitsurus 5A. Don't try to do this often especially against a good player, once they take notice they can react with their own sweep and beat out both our options.

    Besides this and our 214214C and game mechanics we don't have any reliable defenses, Mitsurus like to abuse the 2f tech window of their grab so try not to roll out alot as the grab will throw us out of our roll ...if a Mitsuru is close enough she can also hit us with 5A. Don't mind your Axe Status and focus on blocking and looking out for her grabs and IOH. Our 2B can be stuffed out easily by her j.B at most ranges so even that option is limited from us.

    Her Defense:

    Probably the most hated reversal in the game is Mitsurus Getsu-ei (B+D), CHECK OUT THAT HITBOX. It has invincibility on startup and literally hits all around her. This move can be special cancelled into Bufudyne (236236C/D) upon landing, this move is air unblockable and makes her DP safe on landing. Her 2B and j.A effectively stuffs out our j.B approaches and 2D stuffs out any jump attempts we make in general.

    Gimmicks and Resets
    -

    Match Summary

    This match up is a very uphill battle for Labrys, the match up is doable but you have to play very patiently, block very efficiently and take the risks to open her up. Don't get too greedy and keep things simple if possible, Mitsuru can ruin our entire momentum in the blink of an eye put us in knockdown and snag 3-4k off whatever punish she made.

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This match up is retarded. You have to pick and choose your spots to try and j.B, so no going ham in this one until you actually have an advantageous position. Mitsuru's 2B will fuck your face. You've got to out footsie the character that has some of the best normals in the game. If she's pressuring with low pokes on your wakeup, you can throw a Furious Action out to stop her, but then please keep any eye out for throws because that only works once or twice (with most opponents actually). And for the love of god don't charge your Furious Action when using it as a reversal.

You need to familiarize yourself with how Mitsuru works so you know what's coming. The A Version of her "dash punch" move thing is either Equal or Plus on block. But it doesn't matter because all of Mitsuru's normals are faster than yours. If you like guessing, have fun. Mitsuru can go low, high, or throw. Just gotta be patient and look for an opportunity to get some space and try to bait/punish. Breaking a throw is excellent for that.

That's all I remember for now.

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Couple important notes. If you do an R-Action against spam, the opponent can almost always cancel their spam into their R-Action or super and straight out win against yours. In that situation, charging your R-Action is occasionally beneficial. A lot of opponents will just jump cancel and/or block, anyway, though. Labrys' R-Action is incredibly slow and acts like infinite superarmor, meaning the startup takes longer the more the opponent hits Labrys.

If you break a ground throw against Mitsuru, she actually has the advantage. Off a throw break, she can dash 5A and force the opponent into a block due to the range of her normals.

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Well all of my information is coming from basic day one stuff. The Mitsuru I was playing against hadn't explored everything yet.

This is still one of those matchups where you might as well pick any other character.

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considering i already play real passive in this mactgh up i see this not as troublesome. Nackid 236 seem helpful this time around when misturu trying to turtle. Mistru rushing is another story.

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Ive been playing with a buddy of mine who uses Mitsuru and Ive got to say its quite a pain. This is one of the matchups where you definitely don't want to go around throwing J.B around without thinking about it. Like Aloci said its a very patient matchup. Her anti airs are very strong, and her pokes will beat yours 90% of the time. I'd say its without a doubt a 6-4 matchup in Mitsuru's favor, if not 7-3.

Learning how to deal with her is gonna be rough.

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You deal with her by picking a character that handles the match up better.

I honestly think that any tournament Labrys players are going to have to have a "pocket" character that they can fall back on.

'Cause almost every match up in this game is bad for Labrys.

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You deal with her by picking a character that handles the match up better.

I honestly think that any tournament Labrys players are going to have to have a "pocket" character that they can fall back on.

'Cause almost every match up in this game is bad for Labrys.

This is not matchup advice. Labrys has decent matchups and her damage output can be quite ridiculous. Mitsuru is hard for most characters and players to deal with, anyway.

If you get in on Mitsuru, you can keep her pressured and win in a few combos. Bait anti-airs, play patient, don't get randomly frozen. Figure out if your opponent spams DPs and Bufus and respect them only as much as necessary.

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random neutral 5c always loses to ice whip

if they do whatever into the drill and you block, your 2a will be beat them mashing on something since it does come out faster than most if not all of her pokes after including the block stun. if she does the hop back after drill, you whiff. if she jumps, 1 2a and you can block the instant overhead j.b in time.

if she does something jump cancelled into j.b for instant overhead you can NOT 2b that to beat it clean. you will get ch (happens constantly vs a friend of mine as i tried to figure if you could. please update me if this is wrong!)

shits fucking annoying. really annoying.

stay grounded mostly, derping j.b loses to her dp very easily.

max range 22d can outrange the ice whip, and if shes very cautious you can walk her backwards slowly. if she moves up to punish with whip, roll thru.

be patient though, and be smart if you got momentum. dont give it up for free, and safety > risky bullshit in this MU

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The A Version of her "dash punch" move thing is either Equal or Plus on block. But it doesn't matter because all of Mitsuru's normals are faster than yours.

if they do whatever into the drill and you block, your 2a will be beat them mashing on something since it does come out faster than most if not all of her pokes after including the block stun. if she does the hop back after drill, you whiff. if she jumps, 1 2a and you can block the instant overhead j.b in time.

I got a completely different result in practice mode if someone wants to test it to make sure I'm right.

Mitsuru is - after 5AAA xx a droit. She can still block after coup and nothing you can have can punish it but if she does try to do something like 5AAA xx a droit. > 2A/5A will clash with your pokes.

She can't instant overhead nor jump if poke with 5A but your 2A will get whiff.

Grab not fast enough as you can see it getting poked during the start-up.

This makes coup less intimidating then it appears to be and the pressure not as safe.

her choice after

x > a droit

1.) block [completely safe]

2.) DP [b+D]

3.) Super Cancel

4.) OMB/OMC

So essentially if they have no meter you should always 5A(2A) after a droit. Even if you eat DPs because they might condition themselves to keep DP'ing after droit, which means less pressure on you and a baited DP leads to huge damage regardless of axe level. Even if she just blocks your poke now you're in the position to pressure.

Hell I would still do it even if she had meter unless I had disastrously low health or something says otherwise.

(The information above is deemed correct after I tested it, but I might just be playing Mitsuru wrong and if anyone can confirm or deny it would be a great before I make myself look stupid and mess people up.)

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If you IB the coup, you should be able to punish with throw, unless Mitsu is out of range. I can't test at the moment, PS3 is packed up for my trip back to Norcal.

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If you IB the coup, you should be able to punish with throw, unless Mitsu is out of range. I can't test at the moment, PS3 is packed up for my trip back to Norcal.

just tested this, yes you can.

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all of Mitsuru's normals are faster than yours.

No. Her 5A is 7F same as your Labrys 5A. Her 2A is 9F, Labrys is 7F. You will win point blank a crouching poke war. You will win point blank a 5A poke war in red axe (CH vs Fatal CH). Yellow axe might be favorable for Labrys? I'm pretty sure green and lower is even at best.

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If you IB the coup, you should be able to punish with throw, unless Mitsu is out of range.

This is good. It catches her on counter hit so she didn't recover on time. Start IBing coup. If she spaces coup correctly most likely she will jump back j. B If you have seen your opponent do this alot; you can catch her with. J.A confirm Or even catch her with a 5A on ch that's if you IB.

Don't challenge her Air to Air. Her j.a destroys our entire methods of approaching so prepare to IB and approach via ground. Try to not to call your persona alot, mitsuru has the range to strike it and you.

when she does Retreat j.B, Anti airing her can be a hassle but if you hold 2B(fully charged) her jB will whiff and she will get punish thanks to our upper body invul. Oh, if your gonna confirm off of fully charged 2b, sjc, j.c, j. 214B.

Also don't randomly throw out 2B when she is in the air during Neutral, otherwise you'll get j.B CH Into Artemisia freeze.

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What is the best punish for Mitsuru's DP to avoid the Bufudyne/No-Bufudyne mix-up? I have just been going for CH 5A before she lands but I wonder if there is a better way.

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What is the best punish for Mitsuru's DP to avoid the Bufudyne/No-Bufudyne mix-up? I have just been going for CH 5A before she lands but I wonder if there is a better way.

236236C/D the moment you block.

Jump late and block the DP after its going, but time the jump so you cross sides. The super will go the wrong direction i believe. (not tested throughly)

if it whiffs, you can do a lot more, 2b on reaction for example. if it doesnt touch you, he cant cancel the instant he lands i believe.

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What is the best punish for Mitsuru's DP to avoid the Bufudyne/No-Bufudyne mix-up? I have just been going for CH 5A before she lands but I wonder if there is a better way.

1. Block the DP

2. Do nothing. Watch if they are doing Bufudyne/Myriad Arrows/recover

3. If you see super flash, mash DP, else punish with whatever you want

1.a Roll and if they do nothing they get away. If they Bufudyne free punish

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Is there a specific amount of frames where they can super cancel? I figured it was during the whole time they were recovery so I always tried to punish immediately. If they can't delay it, it would make punishing the DP a lot easier.

I would be nice if there is a way to get a cross-up jB during her descent to make the super whiff if she does it and net us a CH jB.

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well i know that labrys dp is super cancellable the moment it hits/blocks, but on whiff, you cant super cancel it

i would assume mitsus is the safe. so if she whiffs, she has to wait on landing recovery too if thats correct.

dunno mitsu enough to say for sure, but i tried a quick recording dummy and on whiff the super never came out, and it makes sense, so.....

not 100%, but makes sense to me until proven wrong\

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I know that you can't super on whiff. I meant if they make you block it, can't they delay their super until the final recovery frames of their DP or do they have to do it right after they land? I want to remove as much guesswork as possible when trying the punishing the DP.

236236C/D is nice. Didn't think that would work.

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using labrys example, you can delay it. i do it a lot actually. buffer in the 214 over and over for the gear super, button when they move to ya.

so id assume mitsu can delay also.

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Yep, a few characters can cancel their DP recovery at any point into a super on hit or block-- Aigis, Labrys, and Mitsuru come to mind. Since Mitsuru's stuff is invul though, I don't think you actually have any way to cover every option...although maybe someone will think of something impressive.

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5A always works if you block it. It will counter hit her in the air while she is coming down so she can't super cancel. I was just hoping for a way to get a more damaging starter.

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5A fatals in red axe, so it's not a bad starter. You get around 3.8k meterless as a punish off anti-air FC 5A. 5.3k off C super, 6.5k off D super. 5.9k~6k off of 75 meter BI combo.

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