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Setsuna

[P4A] Labrys vs Shadow Labrys

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Labrys_Vs_Shadow_Labrys_Header.png

Please use this thread to discuss and contribute to this matchup. Information will be added to the main post as information comes. Keep in mind that strats will be changed as the game evolves.

The Neutral Game

Long Range: Your Tools vs His Tools

Medium Range: Your Tools vs His Tools

Close Quarters: Your Tools vs His Tools

Offense

Your Offense:

His Offense:

Defense

Your Defense:

His Defense:

Gimmicks and Resets
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Match Summary
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5B charged -> 236B doesn't connect on her. Any advice for midscreen tsurugi pickups? (duplicate in Naoto thread)

Finally decided to go in the lab and test this and wow thats pretty surprising. For now instead of 5B charged > 236B we can do 2B > air stuff as an alternative ... its something to at least capitalize off the hit for now.

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Allright. I'll start by saying.

S. Labrys annoys me. Not as much as mitsuru.. But just watching her.. She makes me yell you ain't me!

Goal: Accept Our Shadow BREAK ITS PERSONA!

This can only be done if you only use strong normals. so that means no light attacks.

Choose when to approach

Other words, pay attention. All of It's normals work the same way ours do so stay focused on what it's persona is doing. If it's persona goes for the 2C AA, stay on the ground, wait for its flames to move up and use the opportunity to approach or destroy the persona. also watch s.lab when this happens.. If it jumps, run straight through and 2b. If it approachs you, keep it at bay with 5B, do NOT jump.. You gotta remember that the flames are patrolling the air and if you jump S.Labys can just 2B you or keep you in blockstun. Be patient, it can do a better job keeping us out but if you ever encounter a s.lab who loves rushing in; defend your turf, j.D to keep it from progressing, it has to respect our space also.

Mixups?

S.Labys isn't really strong in this department, i mean it has bs on knockdown like activating persona punch or flames of hades then rolling or not rolling lol. You guys KNOW how to block guillotine so react to it and respect it. Oh, keep in mind she can't 2A 3x like we can. in the mixup department it has another reliable low.. Max range sweep(works the same way she can guillotine right after)

If it's persona disappears brace yourself, it can be a command throw or punch with alot of air untechable time, yes it can combo off it. you could stand/low block the punch but it keeps you in unwanted blockstun giving s.lab an opportunity for Mixups. to avoid this, neutral jump beforehand and block. Be careful s.lab might go for a air throw just remain calm and tech the throw.

Defense

Be aware, s.labs dp isn't as shitty as ours so if you knock it down; don't think it won't ever use it. if you block it punish HARD, make it hurt!~ it's stamina is pretty bad so it would be wise to get rid of it early. don't think it'll be easy to destroy s.lab's persona just because it is always out; a good S.Labrys will keep her guarding.

Supers..well the few you should watch out for..

Brutal Impact[Awakening Only]

hey, remember our brutal impact? S.labrys BI is a much faster version at the point where it can be used as a reversal. however i don't it's an unblockable...the B version isn't no matter how long you delay it.

Titanomachia

during the superflash; s.lab can input up to 3 persona commands(if you listen carefully you should hear 1-3 sounds), after those inputs the persona will automatically follow up into a fullscreen super. even if s.lab doesn't input anything, the fullscreen super will eventually happen.

Conclusion

Stay calm, and slowly work your way in. focus on breaking the persona. if you catch s.lbys, respect it's dp. if you get a confirm, MAKE IT HURT..

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S. Lab's DP isn't as shitty as ours, but it's still pretty damn shitty. If she starts it and you hit it with anything at all, just cancel into DP and you'll win. She can't charge hers like we can, so she can't attempt to bait DP cancels (even if that's a horrible idea in an of itself).

Also, though it's not really that important, remember that she also can't jump cancel 2B. Her 2B and 5B are gatlings into each other, though.

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I should clarify. She can't jump cancel on block. On hit, she still can (otherwise it'd be pretty damn useless, lol).

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Shadow Labrys player checking people's impressions when facing her...

Treat this match to an extent as a mirror match with a few differences:

You have more health, actual chains, and higher burst damage

She has stronger mixups, Better screen control, and strong oki

Breaking the persona now makes it like you're fighting a blue axe labrys so just watch out for 2B since it is very close if not similiar to your own. The entirety of Slabrys' strategy is to get the knockdown, this match is good since your DP is not a strong answer so the command grab WILL be used especially if you are in the corner. Awakening gives you a powerful super (B. Impact) and Gears but unless you have 100 Meter the gears are baitable and very punishable on whiff.

To put it simply, get in, get the knockdown, don't let her get away since her wake-up is as poor as yours but she can't afford to make as many mistakes in the fight or else red axe + 50 meter = 50-70% life lost.

Oh and before I forget, simply saying "get the persona break" as a strategy is the same as saying "just snap phoenix in" in marvel...Its not the answer its just a part of the solution.

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i really just have a ton of trouble seeing what the fuck is going on. too much effect in her attacks.

that and her dp being harder to reaction cancel-into-your-own-dp since its faster.

keeping pressure never seems too rough, but getting it in the first place was always troubling.

i use a lot of neutral 5b, far range sweep, and careful approach and it seems okay, but my experience is lacking for sure. not too many slabby's on xbl.

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Mixups?

S.Labys isn't really strong in this department, i mean it has bs on knockdown like activating persona punch or flames of hades then rolling or not rolling lol. You guys KNOW how to block guillotine so react to it and respect it. Oh, keep in mind she can't 2A 3x like we can. in the mixup department it has another reliable low.. Max range sweep(works the same way she can guillotine right after)

If it's persona disappears brace yourself, it can be a command throw or punch with alot of air untechable time, yes it can combo off it. you could stand/low block the punch but it keeps you in unwanted blockstun giving s.lab an opportunity for Mixups. to avoid this, neutral jump beforehand and block. Be careful s.lab might go for a air throw just remain calm and tech the throw.

She has stronger mixups, Better screen control, and strong oki

lol? Well, she has some pretty scary unblockables and annoying crossups.

She definitely has better screen control and compared to conditional string arts oki labrys has...yeah

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S. Lab has great mix up and zone potential. Much better than Labrys. Her DP isn't the best but it's far from being bad, as it's faster than ours (all her normals are) and she still gets combos on CH.

Her command grab can be abused in this MU because Lab's DP isn't a suitable answer for it. It's possible for her to trap you after a KD with command grab/j.A setups that guarantee her another KD into the same situation. Quick escape/mashing/DP will not save Labrys from this. The only answer is late tech or no ground tech. You can tell the difference between the command grab and 8C (bull uppercut) by watching the bull; command grab animation will just have him slightly go underground like a shark. 8C disappears completely. However, 8C tracks your location when the move is performed, so if he goes for 8C, move out of the immediate area, and you can possibly get a free punish on the persona.

Our persona normals and 236a/b aren't particularly useful because the bull block stops ALL projectiles. 2b is really good for attempting to break the bull and keep you relatively safe. If blocked, iad back and reestablish space.

S. Lab has no true block strings, so if you're feeling ballsy, you can dp in between her strings.

The MU is difficult, but once you know how S Lab works, then it's manageable. 5-5 imo.

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We should probably compile a list (since the S.Lab board doesn't seem to have one) of S.Lab's common oki/unblockable set-ups and how to escape them.

j.214A knockdown > Command grab/jA set-up: You can backdash and the set-up will whiff and you should be able to 5A S.Lab out of the air.

j.214A knockdown > Command grab/dash 5A set-up: This only seems to be used to beat out backdash on wake-up. This one gives me more trouble than the other one. It is hard for me to tell which one is going to hit first. Honestly not quite sure the best way out of this one. If you jump, her 5A should hit you. If you DP, her 5A would hit your autoguard and then she could go into her DP. If you block or roll, her command grab could hit you first. Gear super would work fine though

knockdown/blockstring > Buffalo Hammer (low) and 214A/B (high): It's unblockable. You can DP her 214A/B. I would guess that you could roll as well assuming it isn't meaty but I never tried that. Gear super also works against this one.

Those are the ones I remember off the top of my head. She has a crap load of different set-ups and if anyone has any others (and ways to escape them), please share them.

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For all of S.lab's persona setups after knockdown, you can late tech them to some degree. S.lab has some late tech punish setups but I don't know off hand if she has any unblockable/unavoidable all time tech punishes.

Common crossup setup you will see is blockstring > charge 5C > roll. Or simply laser charge > blockstring > roll.

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