Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Skye

[P4A] Akihiko vs Yukiko

Recommended Posts

TL;DR verdict: ??:??

Yukiko's tools

Akihiko's answer to them

-----------------------

Akihiko's tools

Yukiko's answer to them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not very good at this game but i found a few things playing various matches against Yukiko.

Yukiko's tools:

5B/2B/JB fans: Really frustrating to deal with especially her 2B fans which can and will hit you out of your airdash. Akihiko's weave will actually the 5B fans to whiff. But then again, Yukiko wouldn't be throwing fans at such close range anyways. If you're feeling brave/manly or have godlike reactions, you can try to 236D through two of her fans and cork for a nice fatal. Your timing must be on point though or else you'll get hit by the second fan.

You can EX kill rush if you think she's about to throw fans for a nice combo.

I just found out that the fans can be countered so if you're close enough, you can punish with a corkscrew.

2A: This move just completely shuts down kill rush so use caution when throwing a raw kill rush out there.

Various Persona attacks(maragi,agi): For the most part, Yukiko's persona is pretty hard to hit in addition to her regular 5C>2C block strings, she can cancel them into agi to make them safe. Maragi is an incredibly annoying move that hits low and th eD version comes out pretty fast so watch out for that. You shoudl also watch out for her 2D as it hits high and be sure to hit ti as it's vulnerable on hit and block or else she'll use her 5C 2C blocksting.

Akihiko's answer to them: READS! You have to do your best to pick the best time to airdash in or kill rush in. AKihiko's ducks are pretty difficult to use here as Yukiko's double fans are pretty tricky to duck under. I found that most Yukiko's tend to throw fans after their 5AA> 5B> 5C> 2C> 236A/B block string so sneaking in a kill rush may be a good gamble to take but you always have to beware of her 2A which stuffs it.

I found that the best time to airdash in is when she's about to use maragi. You actually have a lot of time to hit her out of it and get a nice combo in. Just be sure not to try and airdash at every opportunity as her 2B and even 5A will hit you out of it.

You have to make every hit count once you're in and not let her go (although that canbe said about any matchup lol). I ended up bursting everytime if i ever got hit while she was in the corner (can be easily baited though). You want to try and finish this match as fast as possible because off of every combo she can fire boost which means she'll be able to get better combos and damage off of random hits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this isn't really following the format, but I think spacing plays a super important role in this matchup. I find that, as Akihiko, I want to either be right up in her face, or at a distance.

Reason being that, at mid-range, Yukiko seems to be able to throw out fans that can hit if you try to approach from either the ground or the air. Granted, you can weave/duck through those, but that position also puts her in prime position to use her persona to blow up any of your other approaches. At least at a distance, the spacing leaves a gap between fan and persona attacks, while giving you more breathing room to make a duck > corkscrew read and using that knockdown to apply some much-needed pressure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just played a Yukiko for the first time and I think this matchup needs to be talked about more because it's somewhat difficult (until you get in). Think I'll use the format for the first time as well lol.

Yukiko's tools:

All of her fans. Her fans cover a very good portion of the screen. Problem is, Aki's jumps are short that he can't jump over them without using double jump. 5A has amazing range and she can counterhit confirm her fans half screen! Tight fullscreen pressure and unblockables on knockdown. Combos all knock you away like crazy. A fairly decent DP that will protect her and knocks you away as well.

Akihiko's answer to them:

He can weave/duck/counter through the fans. One problem though is if she does j.B and it hits below the knees, it's considered a low. And Aki cannot weave/duck/counter lows. However if given the chance I think you should counter them from fullscreen while working your way in. You might as well take the free meter and sacrifice some life, since he will need the meter to make some risky reads. At midrange, don't do anything foolish or try to challenge her 5A, she will defeat your short range jabs. I don't know what to do with her 2D/2A "unblockable". EX Corkscrew goes through many things so that's something you can use to counterhit her throwing fans at you.

-----------------------

Akihiko's tools:

Duck Corkscrew her when she's doing j.B, good damage and push her into corner. I feel like Aki needs to make risks to force himself in thus you need meter to do corkscrew and OMC to keep up the pressure. Jab pressure is still pretty good. Maximize your combos and end it quick because one hit from her means full screen zoning again. Consider bursting early to continue momentum. SB counter counters lows, so you can use that if she throws a Maragi or something.

Yukiko's answer to them:

She can do a steeper j.B to anticipate your corkscrews. Uhh I'm too lazy to write anymore lol. Basically make the read. End her life quickly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yukiko is a weird matchup for Akihiko, but it feels Akihiko favor to me. Most important things to be familiar with;

Zoning

-Airdash back jB

This is probably her best tool. Very low commitance, powerful range covered. If she continually uses this, you pretty much have to just recognize she loses real-estate every time, and progress over it. You could also consider trading with 236C 6A, corkscrew it on start up, or beating it clean with 236C 6AB for super armor fatal. Takes a gooooood read though, be careful. If she's doing it a lot early on in the round, and you don't have meter, you can also consider 214B counter, let the thumbs up flash for I think 10 or 15 meter. Likely to take some small damage for it, but you've got plenty of health anyway.

-5B

Can be swayed underneath. Can also be B countered for meter.

-5C

This is probably one of the hardest things for Akihiko to deal with. I think to effectively disable it you pretty much have to roll through it (??) or just accept that you're going to tap the persona best case scenario. You can also use EX Corkscrew, if he's being too predictable. Super jump height kind of mitigates this thing's effectivity, and air dash jB can break it pre-emptively if he doesn't have it out in time.

Close Range

-5A

One of the biggest jabs in the game. It's slower than yours, so if you're right up next to her she won't be using this, but as a poking tool it's good. Weak recovery on whiff, if it whiffs you can A Kill rush for counter hit, and confirm to B hook 6C B+D for an actually decent punish.

-2A

This move is peculiarly good. It low profiles 5B (?!), so against Yukiko, without significant frame advantage, default to 2A in most cases you could consider playing footsies with 5B.

-jA

Surprisingly good hitbox, respect it. 2B it if she air dashes on you. Air grab it if she's awkwardly above.

Otherwise.. her specials are great, kind of weak recovery though. If she autopilots at all, EX Corkscrew is the god. Against a strong one, there will be holes, then, where she isn't autopiloting. So, EX Corkscrew is how you prove the matchup's integrity, along with B counters if she keeps throwing mid-hitting projectiles.

Watch for the unblockable (Persona above, then dash 2A), if she goes for it realize you have to guess reversal or not reversal. DO NOT just get hit by it.

If she uses fire break unblockables, usually you want to roll it. If her timing or set up was great, you might just get hit. In some other cases, like if the fire is coming from behind and you don't have time, you can consider EX Sway.

Don't forget, her reversal super is glitched to be unblockable every time if she fire breaks it once, so consider guard cancelling if she uses it again afterwards. The unblockable is near the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know, fuck this match up.

For every reason a zoner destroys a close quarters fighter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't feel so bad to me. I dunno. It's frustrating, but play patient and build your meter up. If you force her to at least respect your meter gain on weave or B counter, she can't just be mindless about it. She'll have to fire-break or level up to force you to approach, which creates holes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weave isn't even useful in this match up if Yukiko is doing things right.

First her j.bs will blow weave up as well as any fire attack and persona attack.

After that, once she makes you realize that Weave will only get you CH, you therefore gain no benefit from not approaching, while she is building meter and fire levels for free.

Her persona attacks are pretty safe so blocking and hitting the persona isn't nearly as easy as it is for most other characters, then once you start trying to get in, you realize that her pokes out-range yours, even if they're pretty much half as fast.

The worst of it is that both her DP and the general nature of her combos send you back, so one slip up and you have to go through the trials all over again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weave isn't even useful in this match up if Yukiko is doing things right.

First her j.bs will blow weave up as well as any fire attack and persona attack.

After that, once she makes you realize that Weave will only get you CH, you therefore gain no benefit from not approaching, while she is building meter and fire levels for free.

Her persona attacks are pretty safe so blocking and hitting the persona isn't nearly as easy as it is for most other characters, then once you start trying to get in, you realize that her pokes out-range yours, even if they're pretty much half as fast.

The worst of it is that both her DP and the general nature of her combos send you back, so one slip up and you have to go through the trials all over again.

this. ;w;

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weave isn't even useful in this match up if Yukiko is doing things right.

First her j.bs will blow weave up as well as any fire attack and persona attack.

After that, once she makes you realize that Weave will only get you CH, you therefore gain no benefit from not approaching, while she is building meter and fire levels for free.

Her persona attacks are pretty safe so blocking and hitting the persona isn't nearly as easy as it is for most other characters, then once you start trying to get in, you realize that her pokes out-range yours, even if they're pretty much half as fast.

The worst of it is that both her DP and the general nature of her combos send you back, so one slip up and you have to go through the trials all over again.

Every time she uses air dash back jB she loses ground, that's typical zoner matchup. I already mentioned that's probably her best tool though, and you have to treat it as such. Just moving over it is fine though, and forces her to do something else.

Her persona attacks are not as good as many might think, there's gaps in weird places. The only really safe way she can end her persona strings is either agi or the ground fire, both of which have significant start up, meaning more holes to be taken advantage of.

Especially once you start to accrue meter (And if you're instant blocking properly, you will get -ludicrous- meter), this matchup really feels fine.

-If she uses too much jB, keep approaching

-If she uses too much persona, keep IBing

-If she uses agi/ground fire, take some real estate if you can and IB if you can't

Then, use your meter and blow her up. Your risk reward is vastly superior.

Oh, I should add, make sure to start nearly every block-string with 2A or 2B, because her 2A low profiles almost everything else.

EDIT: The way this matchup usually goes for me is I take 30-70% life then hit her once, followed by one mix up she bursts or dies. I also use gold burst whenever I can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-If she uses too much jB, keep approaching

-If she uses too much persona, keep IBing

-If she uses agi/ground fire, take some real estate if you can and IB if you can't

I think you're being a bit too subjective with an objective discussion. Naturally a good Yukiko will be doing all three in proper moderation, which leaves us with jitter steps and a lot of IBing, which doesn't guarantee much other than the EX Corkscrew, which can get blown up by 236c/d. Not saying it's impossible or unstable, that's the Kanji match up. There are options, but they all require getting in, which is, by design, hard to achieve. EX Corkscrew can only work so many times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm blind, but didn't the Akihiko team win 9-7 in the concept match? o_o;;

And Skye, I recognize I'm over-simplifying it. I still don't think it's bad, and I think the linked video completely proves my point. Those are the best of the best (If not the best, DAMN near close to it), for both characters, and Akihiko came out on top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those matches were absolutely amazing to watch. But there are some things that you have to keep in mind. The score was 9-7 Akihiko. It wasn't /that/ decisive and even less so when you think about how they won. All of the Akihikos pulled some of the most obscene and crazy mixups that uses up all of their resources just to get that ONE CHANCE to win. You always hear the Japanese yell "ONE CHANCEUUU" and it definitely shows in these concept matches. Most of the time they were effectively zoned and if they didn't get that one chance to throw something crazy and kill them, it was decisively taken by Yukiko. I think the matchup should be decided on how it went for most of the battle and not just the few seconds or even just the end result. It was clearly an uphill battle for team Akihiko. Also it was single match round robin. I'm sure in terms of technology, the Yuki team really had nothing new to showcase compared to the Aki team. Definitely some dirty things that I've never seen before.

Not saying this is a 3-7 matchup. But I still think it's difficult for Akihiko and should be in her favor just given her tools.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also the RESULT wasn't what mattered. Results don't mean anything in a match up because it always comes down to the Player in the end. What i saw when watching that was in every single match but 1 it was 90% controlled by Yukiko because Akihiko has little to no way in dealing with things.

Match ups are solely what tools a character has to deal with what tools other characters have. It's all math. When a character has little to no options and the ones he does have are fairly unsafe, that's a bad match up, it's the definition.

It's like saying Tager/Carl is an even match because Tager just needs to hit that one command grab to get started.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already told you that's how the matchup works. She dominates you, then you catch her once and it's -over-

Have you guys played against zoners in other FGs before?? It always feels like this.

Tager Carl is a pretty awful analogy, btw, since Carl wants to be in just as much as Tager. That being said, I have heard that matchup is not that bad in EX, from Akira. Regardless, it's irrelevant to Akihiko V Yukiko

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking as a Yukiko player, the matchup feels pretty close to even. One good read is all it takes for Akihiko to get in at midrange once he hits 25SP, and 2 good hits is all it takes for him to destroy Yukiko's health bar. It's scary as hell for Yukiko to be dancing around Akihiko once he has meter because you can't make mistakes without losing a huge chunk of health if Akihiko is on point. Of course, if the Yukiko player makes better reads every step of the way, you're going to lose without ever getting close enough to touch her, but that kind of thing is true for every matchup.

As for the concept matches, I suppose one could argue that team Akihiko seemed more well-rounded compared to team Yukiko (Whistler was the only player on either team who went 0-4), but that's splitting hairs since everyone else was packing a mix of wins and losses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because "that's how the match works" doesn't mean it isn't bad. It is the same in every game. I could've used Tager/V-13 from CT and the idea is similar here. But i wasn't going for a similar match as much as i was an analogy for bat matches in general.

The zoner controls the match in it's entirety and if the character with no good ways to get in doesn't, it's game. Or if they get that one good hit it's usually DAMAGE. Either way it's a bad match.

When the only real answer is that the Aki/Tager/Gief/whoever HAS TO, as in there's no real tool in his arsenal to answer back often, MAKE A GOOD READ then that's a bad match.

No Aki-Yuki is NOT as bad as Tager-Nu, just saying it's the same thing.

I'm also using grapplers as examples because even though Aki isn't one, he is the most grounded character in this game imo. Most grapplers are as well.

It is the nature of the design. They have high health and damage for a reason, but it doesn't change that a match is bad and definitely doesn't change HOW BAD it is.

"If i get that hit" or "If i make that read" doesn't mean anything for the match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tbh, if the matchup boils down to Akihiko forced to make good reads, it already is not an even matchup. Oh and he needs to have good reads while having meter. If an Aki has meter, there's just no reason for a Yukiko to be reckless anymore. Also you have to remember that a Yukiko not only can play defensively but her offensive game is pretty scary too if she does get you in the corner. You'd be surprised how often it might happen because when it does, you are at her mercy of her range. She'll sit at 5A range and she can do whatever she wants. Oh and bursts are very helpful for her but if you defensive burst her while she's not cornered, then you'll be back at neutral which she wins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I just don't know how you see 9-7 Akihiko favor and decide the matchup is not only not even, but disadvantaged..

I understand everything you're saying, I just think it's flat out wrong, and I think the evidence in this case supports me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Akihiko isn't the only one relying on reads here; Yukiko's attacks have to connect in order to keep Akihiko out. She can't just be chucking things blindly; one whiffed fan at around mid range (which is not that hard to navigate to as long as you're not eating everything sent your way) is enough for most characters to get in on her. Most of Yukiko's options are either slow on startup or have sluggish recovery; she's not Nu, who could spam relatively fast projectiles and had a near full screen teleport to reset distance once you got close enough to be a threat. Similarly, Akihiko is not Tager; he actually has mobility options and isn't slow as all hell, so getting to his desired range doesn't require the stars aligning or a seriously retarded decision from Yukiko.

If an Aki has meter, there's just no reason for a Yukiko to be reckless anymore.

Which means she's going to have to play more conservatively in order to not eat every SB Corkscrew thrown her way. Being forced to play more safely translates to less crap to wade through once Akihiko reaches mid range, which improves his chances of getting in. Not that it's impossible for him to close before then, but it makes it a lot easier. And, of course, once he hits awakening, 100sp is practically a free ticket in from almost anywhere.

A matchup isn't decided on the neutral game unless said neutral game is damn near impossible to win for a character (the apparently popular Nu vs Tager being a pretty good example of a truly nightmarish neutral game). Neutral at midrange+ isn't fun for Akihiko, but that's always the case with a close quarters character vs a zoner; you have to do a lot of blocking and slowly make your way in. Being forced to play extra carefully at certain ranges doesn't make it a flat-out bad matchup (otherwise what does it say that the situation is completely flipped once Yukiko loses momentum and Akihiko gets close?) unless said close-range character has crap for mobility and severely limited ranged options (most grapplers, which Akihiko is not).

Dacidbro oversimplified his approach to the matchup (and admitted as such), but he's not wrong about it not being horrible; there are ways around everything Yukiko does, so it's entirely possible (and quite likely, assuming skilled players) that Akihiko will close in at least once in a round. Looking at the concept matches, the players' ability to read their opponents was the deciding factor. There were some rounds where people just got bodied, but there were a lot that came down to the wire, too. I can see the matchup possibly being slightly in Yukiko's favor just given the range she can command and Akihiko needing to get in his opponent's face to really do anything, but I really don't see her holding a substantial edge here. Her pressure is not airtight, her zoning isn't flawless, and a relatively minor mistake can easily cost her 50%+ of her health. Once Akihiko gets in, the match is almost completely out of Yukiko's hands, as she can't safely push any buttons (a 7f 2A is her only sub-10f move). Not to say that Yukiko's offense isn't scary (it is; multiple unblockables, range, extremely tight pressure under the right circumstances), but Akihiko is far from helpless in this matchup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After all is said and done, I never said/thought it was helpless for Akihiko just difficult for an extended time of the match. I guess Akihiko is just far too explosive as a character that the matchup will never sway too far away from him. I just didn't really see a solid gameplan besides the constant flinging of himself at her until you get in, trial and error. Mazio OMC isn't really a free ticket from fullscreen because blockstun doesn't last that long at least for lvl 0-1; burning 100SP just to get in is very costly. But that's the character he is so I understand and if you could agree that it's at least slightly in Yukiko's favor then I'm fine with that. And since you're here Ryd, we need to play more because I need to learn the matchup since Ray keeps blowing me up. :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
After all is said and done, I never said/thought it was helpless for Akihiko just difficult for an extended time of the match. I guess Akihiko is just far too explosive as a character that the matchup will never sway too far away from him. I just didn't really see a solid gameplan besides the constant flinging of himself at her until you get in, trial and error. Mazio OMC isn't really a free ticket from fullscreen because blockstun doesn't last that long at least for lvl 0-1; burning 100SP just to get in is very costly. But that's the character he is so I understand and if you could agree that it's at least slightly in Yukiko's favor then I'm fine with that. And since you're here Ryd, we need to play more because I need to learn the matchup since Ray keeps blowing me up. :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×