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Skye

[P4A] Akihiko vs Yukiko

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Because results of a match mean nothing, it's what goes on in the match that matters?

Results never matter, you can show me JWong winning entire tournaments with Iron Fist but Iron Fist is not good.

I like to describe Akihiko as Iron Fist on occasion. Akihiko is like Iron Fist with no assists vs Mags/Dante/Vergil with half the cast of P4A lol. Mix that team up and that just changes what character Akihiko is facing. It's a joke but a good one.

And everytime you say that's what a zoner vs close quarters character is, you're answering in our favor because that's the definition of a bad match unless they have some tool that stops them from doing it for free that isn't a friggin unsafe dp of some sort.

Even if you flip, most zoners don't have a dp or decent escape option that forces you to quit pressuring her and guess what to bait. Every Character in This Game does. Yukiko has an actual dp and the roll system to back her escape options and we are one again FORCED to make a good read to make the 45 seconds of blocking we just did viable for that few hits we just got.

It's definitely not even, it's in Yukiko's favor by at least 6-4.

Also 9-7 isn't even a match up ratio, just the result of that match.

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That is a very very very funny joke because I play both Aki and Iron Fist. Did I mention that was a very funny joke? But haha I do like that you compare IF and Aki together because I completely agree with that. For some reason JWong thinks Chie is the IF of Persona which is a no-no.

Anyways I did the math and made the results turn into a ratio for Dacid. It is now a 5.625-4.375 matchup in Aki's favor lulz.

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Well as a CHARACTER in the story and such Chie is the Iron Fist. Her style is similar because that's what she loves.

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I hardly count "one good read" as in Akihiko's favor.

That's like saying Arakune vs Nu was 9-7 (lolwut) in Arakune's favor, because in CT all Arakune needs is one good read to survive that match up. HOWEVER;

Reads is a player factor, in an objective match-up discussion, it's a matter of circumstance or luck.

These reads never factor in bursts or anything.

The fact of the matter is that reads are far too subjective and situational to really put into statistics, which is why Akihiko isn't that good of a character, because most of his angles are from reads, instead of solid character strength.

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Holy crap, you think your character is bad? Akihiko getting one good read isn't something like Arakune/Tager getting one good read vs Nu. He isn't nearly as easily contained as the aforementioned characters because, in addition to the tools that everyone has for movement (jump, super jump, double jump, air dash, ground dash, evasive action), he does get his own options (ducking, heavy lunges like sb kill rush) with an invincible gap closer (sb corkscrew) that leads to a lot of pain, à la Jam's FB puffball and Slayer's BBU. For reference, look at how Slayer/Jam vs Testament matches went in GGAC; they can get zoned a lot, but "one good read" can easily be the end of the match for Testament, and it's a hell of a lot rarer for characters with a kit like that to be completely shut out than it is for them to close in at least once (or more, as is often the case). Akihiko is a close-quarters brawler, so the name of the game vs a zoning/spacing character like Yukiko is to play some serious footsies with their ranged options, work your way in and land a hit once or twice and win. No, you don't get something to do the job for you like Yu's slide/dive (still a gamble) or Chie's meteors (a move that should never have been given to a character like her); but that's how it's supposed to be when you have a character with Akihiko's frame data (dominates just about everyone when he gets in).

Just to clarify things, you understand that Yukiko's attacks are either slow to startup or have sluggish recovery (especially on whiff!), right? Her fastest poke is her 7f 2A, everything else she has is 10+f to startup, with things like 236C, 5D, and 2/jD being particularly slow. Fans outside of 5B (5BB, 2B, jB) and 236D have noticeably bad recovery. 236A/B, she has some flexibility with, and how it's dealt with depends on the situation it's being used in, but a held Agi goes away on hit or block, and keeping one dormant prevents her from using the corresponding button while the flame is stored. Her zoning is good if she can read her opponent, but she falls flat if she can't due to the recovery on whiffing, and she can't instantly fill up the screen with fans or go into something else reasonably quickly if she whiffs one (except 5B). Since I'm still getting a vibe that the majority believe Akihiko is largely helpless in the matchup, here's some ways to get around Yukiko's zoning options:

5B: jumps of all sorts, air dashing, ducking, evasive action, parry

5BB: double/super jump, air dashing (not iad!), ducking, evasive action, parry

2B: same ground options as 5B as well as simply running up to her (depending on the angle), air options depend on your position, but jumping or airdashing (forward or backward) to avoid are all possible

jB: pretty much same as 2B, except ducking/parry may be stuffed depending on the angle the fan is thrown at (not guaranteed, she has to anticipate the duck/parry; there is no one fan trajectory that covers everything)

Maragi: evasive action, jumps of all sorts, air dashing; because she can activate the pillar manually, you should be ready to block if you're over it

5D: evasive action (depends on spacing), going over it, punch it (5/2A) if you're close enough (not necessarily close to Yukiko) when she throws it out (37f startup; jab should stuff this for free unless you're asleep), or block and jab the recovery if Yukiko won't make it to you in time (if she throws a fan, it's worth it to eat a fan for a persona card). The startup is the same regardless of how far it pushes you; only the persona's dashing speed is affected.

236[A]/: go around the area if it's not set on you, or make Yukiko block something if you're close-ish

5C: I believe Akihiko's C moves will win if you're spacing yourself well (even if you just nail her persona, she's stuck for a while due to the recovery)

Minor note: Maziodyne beats out many of her options as well, but it's not listed as it's not always available.

Seriously, go back and watch the concept match set again. Akihiko isn't helpless in this matchup, nor is one who has good fundamentals particularly handicapped. Yukiko's options at neutral can be baited, and each time you successfully do so, you're gaining ground; once you get close enough, everything becomes a huge gamble for her. If she's actually connecting with the majority of what she throws out (or everything, as may be the case?), then Akihiko is being read like a book she's read dozens of times before, and why shouldn't he be free if that's the case? If Yukiko can't get a read on Akihiko at all and whiffs fans at a bad time, he's in, and she's probably going to die. You have options to maneuver around what she can throw out, and there's a limit to how quickly she can get things out. You're not supposed to just blindly cannonball in each and every time; that kind of mindset is almost a guaranteed loss. Dealing with her offense? Unless you're in the corner, she's really limited here. She doesn't have particularly good or threatening blockstrings midscreen; she lacks any reliable overheads without a knockdown+Agi set for the common high/low unblockable (if you let her set up 2D+2A without that kind of prep, you're sleeping at the wheel), and at worst, she can kind of crossup with iad jA. With some hefty and/or risky setup and generally some meter, she can do crossups with Agi, but that's dangerous as she's moving into your range to do so. As for her (very limited) defense game; her reversal supers are very lacking, and her DP isn't even particularly good in this matchup. At 22f to start up, not even having true invincibility (it has the auto-guard everything property), and having pretty miserable horizontal range, it's not that difficult to work around unless you level yourself with baiting and trying to punish it before the attack portion goes off.

Regarding the 9-7 thing; it means a lot more than you guys seem to appreciate. Team Akihiko came out on top vs team Yukiko (granted, only one win, so pretty damn close to even) with some of the best players for each character. That should tell you a lot about how the matchup is expected to go at high level play. And while 16 matches isn't a huge set, it's large enough to see how things should play out when all's said and done. Yes, Akihiko has to work to get in, but getting in is supposed to be the majority of the fight because it can end really quickly once he gets to where he wants to be. It looks bad in the neutral game? Why? Because he can't immediately go to town on Yukiko? Then in your mind, how exactly is a match between a close range fighter vs a long range fighter supposed to go? Is he supposed to have an option to safely get in no matter what Yukiko does? Not much of a fight in that case, is it? Is she supposed to have a guaranteed way to push him out no matter the circumstance? No, that's not very fun either. As it happens, neither is really the case here. There are ways around everything, and it's up to each character to play around the other's game. If Akihiko never gets close, it's over. If he gets in, it's probably over for Yukiko because her close range game is terrible when she hasn't had time to setup shop. She's not Nu; she doesn't get to cover multiple angles in quick succession, nor does she have a good escape tool if things start looking bad. Hell, she doesn't even have any air unblockable attacks, or even anything that gives her "head invincibility" (the "untouchable by aerials" property that is attached to every single other character's 2B). Akihiko is also nowhere near as sluggish as Arakune or Tager; I'm not sure why people are so fond of this kind of extreme comparison.

As you should have picked up (but apparently everyone except Dacidbro failed to), Akihiko has tools to get in. His options aren't omnipotent, but neither are Yukiko's. The concept set really showed that. There isn't a single Akihiko who failed to win matches, while Whistler (Yukiko) went 0-4. The matchup being 6-4 or worse? If it's worse than 6-4, those'd have to be some mediocre Yukikos for that to be true, but seeing as 2 of them made it to SBO (one of whom made top 8), that clearly isn't the case; and there isn't a single Yukiko that went without a loss, either. If it's somewhere between 6-4 and even, then it's nowhere near being a sufficient disadvantage to warrant the kind of talk there's been here. The worst 3 matchups in the game are considered to be Liz/Mitsuru, Yukiko/S.Labrys, and Kanji/Liz at 3-7; and high level vids of those matches don't strike me as genuinely being as bad as advertised (though the disadvantaged character does indeed seem disadvantaged, and generally comes out negative in sets). No offense to the people here, but I somehow doubt that you know more about the game than people who've been playing it a lot longer, and probably have a better overall feel for it. I'm not simply bowing blindly to Japanese superiority here; their top players have had a good deal more time to get real experience with the game, and the situation over there makes it a lot easier to gain real experience with matchups (large quantity of players in a substantially smaller area, better overall netplay quality, etc.) This matchup isn't listed as being one of the terrible ones, and it really doesn't look it, either.

As for Akihiko "not being that good", no offense, but I really have to laugh. What're you comparing him to? Mitsuru/Aigis/Chie? So he doesn't have as ridiculous options as those three. That doesn't make him bad (or at least "not good") by any stretch of the imagination. He's a solid character (and incidentally, ranked higher than Yukiko), and from what I've seen of him at high level play, he really doesn't have any glaring weaknesses like Kanji or Elizabeth (and even those two can still be a very real threat in their worst matchups). The balance in the game isn't bad enough to warrant that kind of talk.

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It was a decent wall of text.

The issue is a vast majority of those things are situational, You're giving us a giant bottle of IF. IF someone does THIS HERE and you know it than do THIS to counter. That's all reads man. None of those situations can come in a match yknow.

And it's absolutely not for the characters to play around each other, it's for the players to play around their, and against their opponents, characters. That's what makes a result of a match, always the player.

Hell a tier is built off a characters tools and their potential entirely, not the players reads/skill. And the complaints people get when using a High Tier character and winning is because they abuse those tools to win and don't have to play their opponents game. Because it's always player skill + character tier when players come in contact with how hard they'll have to try.

None of that matters though, i don't even know why i brought it up.

But a placement on a tier list means NOTHING to specific match ups. The best character in the game can have a bad match up to the worst, it's all about their specific tools.

I have watched that set 3 times now and besides one big blow out match, none of those matches were great for Akihiko, like at all. A few were even but most were him being controlled A LOT, like 75% of the time even in his winning matches. And no i'm not saying that every character should or shouldn't have a safe way in or out BUT i AM saying that not having one for certain character types makes a bad match up. It's how it is, it's how it's designed.

And, AGAIN, for like what? The 5th time? RESULTS do not matter. You could get those teams again, have each opposing member face each other to a FT-100 and i'd only MAYBE consider that good enough. Hell i'd like to see that actually....

But the results of that mean nothing to an argument. I could say each Akihiko win was won by Akihiko getting a few lucky hits. You could say nah bro they read the Yukiko and we'd be at a stalemate because we don't know what they did because it was all in their head and we can't read minds........let alone foreign minds. Each time anyone drops a combo that's a notch that goes against this being a mathematical match up discussion because a player failed to finish doing what he/she needed to do.

Results Do Not Matter.

This is a bad match.

Also i don't remember that many saying this was a CRAZY match like 8-2 or anything like that, just that it's bad (even though i do feel it's a STRONG 6-4 borderline 7-3 in Yukiko's favor, just to get my actual side out there.). And as long as it's bad we're gonna talk about it being bad and hell maybe even complain a little because that's what forums are for.

So ya let's keep arguing, i enjoy it.

P.S. It's also much easier to read a book if you're in control of it. MUCH HARDER to read a book when the book gets to choose when to turn the pages.

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Whoa. Never checked this thread, but I see it's been popular lol.

Uhhh...I don't have enough time (lol actually just patience) to read Ryd's post, but I skimmed through it and the rest of the thread. I don't know how this match is bad. It's just like what was said. It's a match where you're supposed to have at least some trouble getting in. Yukiko is a zoner/space control reliant character. Aki is a rushdown. He shouldn't be able to just go in however he wants whenever he wants. "As you should have picked up (but apparently everyone except Dacidbro failed to), Akihiko has tools to get in. His options aren't omnipotent, but neither are Yukiko's."

and primarily, this section.

"Regarding the 9-7 thing; it means a lot more than you guys seem to appreciate. Team Akihiko came out on top vs team Yukiko (granted, only one win, so pretty damn close to even) with some of the best players for each character. That should tell you a lot about how the matchup is expected to go at high level play. And while 16 matches isn't a huge set, it's large enough to see how things should play out when all's said and done. Yes, Akihiko has to work to get in, but getting in is supposed to be the majority of the fight because it can end really quickly once he gets to where he wants to be. It looks bad in the neutral game? Why? Because he can't immediately go to town on Yukiko? Then in your mind, how exactly is a match between a close range fighter vs a long range fighter supposed to go? Is he supposed to have an option to safely get in no matter what Yukiko does? Not much of a fight in that case, is it? Is she supposed to have a guaranteed way to push him out no matter the circumstance? No, that's not very fun either. As it happens, neither is really the case here. There are ways around everything, and it's up to each character to play around the other's game. If Akihiko never gets close, it's over. If he gets in, it's probably over for Yukiko because her close range game is terrible when she hasn't had time to setup shop. She's not Nu; she doesn't get to cover multiple angles in quick succession, nor does she have a good escape tool if things start looking bad. Hell, she doesn't even have any air unblockable attacks, or even anything that gives her "head invincibility" (the "untouchable by aerials" property that is attached to every single other character's 2B). Akihiko is also nowhere near as sluggish as Arakune or Tager; I'm not sure why people are so fond of this kind of extreme comparison."

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You have such clever sayings iw2ma. Anyways, at least Ryd uses specific things to back his argument, and that's what I respect out of a debate. So much props to you for giving that detailed wall of information. I'm not too sure what to think about Akihiko being not that good of a character. I guess if you were comparing him on a chart (like MM Cafe or something) of A tier people, he'd be more on the unstable side rather than the stable side. But still he is a great character. But that's not matchup talk.

I got nothing more to contribute for now. I feel like for now, 6-4 is as far as it will get for Yuki's favor so it's definitely not helpless. Be patient, find an opening to duck or super jump or whatever, and keep on her the best you can.

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Lol i'm not trying to be clever or witty. It's just an easy way to get a point across.

@ShelledMenace You should read all of Ryd's thing because it is a good chunk of knowledge to absorb.

Very little of what Ryd said is what i'd consider "wrong", it's just not a concrete answer or reason for the match not being bad.

I mean it's not like any of this matters even, i'm using Akihiko no matter what so who cares, everyone else in here who's tried to understand this is most likely doing the same. So why are we even doing this?

Animefreak OUT

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Well it's pretty irrelevant whether the matchup is really in one character's favor or another. And yeah I'll get to it lol, but I'm literally the king of lazy :x

But yes, the whole point of the thread is to learn how to play the match, whether it's good for Aki or not. Maaaaaybe it'll give you a slightly different mindset while you play?...that's about all I can think of. Still think it's very even if not slightly in Aki's favor, but yeah. Let's just learn how to not get hit by obnoxious Yukiko stuff, and then hit her with our obnoxious stuff.

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I don't know if I was clear enough, but I expect to be hit at least 5 times as often as I hit Yukiko in any given match with her, and it's not even remotely a problem.

When I finally DO get a hit, she is frequently on one mix up one kill situations, and her defensive choices are not sufficient to combat Akihiko's offensive choices.

-Her DP is barely functional, and can't even stop his unblockable as he can cancel to super on the guard point.

-All of her reversal options are low reward high risk and Akihiko has more ways to bait reversals than probably any other character, and they cover multiple choices simultaneously, like EX Hook baiting DP and guard cancel.

I think you guys are just uncomfortable with getting hit. Just get used to it, the hits don't hurt. Akihiko has plenty of health, and scales upwards -magnificently- as the match progresses, since his meter use is so incredible.

EDIT: Another fun trick, you can try to call specific projectile attacks with L3 D Maziodyne, and potentially get about 2k, paralysis, and break a card and it's 100% safe (-5 on block, full screen) and usually worst case you break at least a card and clear the screen.

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One problem I do have when getting in is sometimes when a Yukiko keeps me away for a bit, they let me jump/IAD in to air throw. That's just one small gimmick to look out for, but it's worth keeping in mind. I think.

Since it's a call out it might be kind of vague, but what projectiles might you try to call out with the Mazio? Like a standing fan or a fire pillar? I have so little matchup with this, and I don't really know much about her moves either lol.

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Hmm he did say they were specific so I'm guessing it'd be the slower ones like double fan toss or Maragi (flame pillar). Sounds interesting and building up to Lvl 3 Mazio takes a bit of time. Don't know if you guys know this or not but you can input 214C for weave and then 214C/D for Maziodyne right after. Don't have to do the full input for super so it's like a shortcut of sorts. Should I mention this in the technical thread as well? :o

Also I do have a question regarding battling against her DP. In the video I noticed Akis doing EX Duck into A Hook into something into D weave back. Yukiko would do DP in between the EX Duck and Aki hits her guard point with hook but doesn't get knocked back. I can't tell if he did counter in between or if he just moved back with weave to avoid getting hit by the DP. Since Dacid was talking about the DP, I was reminded of this. Do one of you guys have a sharp eye and can see what happened?

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Which vid? If it's the concept match vids, that's a 3 part set.

I think you guys are just uncomfortable with getting hit. Just get used to it, the hits don't hurt. Akihiko has plenty of health, and scales upwards -magnificently- as the match progresses, since his meter use is so incredible.

Just wanted to address this. Yukiko has damage; it's just a lot more situational that most characters, requiring them to eat something they really shouldn't have (FC 5C/5D/2D), Maragi, or getting CH while midair. Maragi and CH 2B (anti-air) can lead to around 3.5~4k damage at certain ranges, or it can lead to a slightly smaller combo (usually around or just under 3k) to set up unblockables for another 3-4k depending on the setup used. Her FCs can lead to around 4-5k+ if Yukiko is able to properly pick up off them. Not that you should be hitting buttons at random at any range when you're not able to hit Yukiko or her persona, but you'll want to be careful with reckless jump ins and watch the situation before you commit to a slide or duck. Outside of that, you're right, getting clipped by her zoning doesn't really hurt.

Edit: 2A (or any stray hit she can pick up off of) while in awakening will lead to around 3k damage for 50sp + unblockable followup. Yukiko can also throw away her burst for higher damage off any hit she can follow up from, but given how bad her defensive options are, that's not something you should really worry about her doing unless it's going to close out a match.

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Which vid? If it's the concept match vids, that's a 3 part set.

Just wanted to address this. Yukiko has damage; it's just a lot more situational that most characters, requiring them to eat something they really shouldn't have (FC 5C/5D/2D), Maragi, or getting CH while midair. Maragi and CH 2B (anti-air) can lead to around 3.5~4k damage at certain ranges, or it can lead to a slightly smaller combo (usually around or just under 3k) to set up unblockables for another 3-4k depending on the setup used. Her FCs can lead to around 4-5k+ if Yukiko is able to properly pick up off them. Not that you should be hitting buttons at random at any range when you're not able to hit Yukiko or her persona, but you'll want to be careful with reckless jump ins and watch the situation before you commit to a slide or duck. Outside of that, you're right, getting clipped by her zoning doesn't really hurt.

Edit: 2A (or any stray hit she can pick up off of) while in awakening will lead to around 3k damage for 50sp + unblockable followup. Yukiko can also throw away her burst for higher damage off any hit she can follow up from, but given how bad her defensive options are, that's not something you should really worry about her doing unless it's going to close out a match.

It's true, those hits do exist, but it's pretty easy to generally not get hit by them, and 3k is extremely average even then.

If she gets you cornered it's legitimately scary, with the right setups. The unblockable resets are really dangerous, especially on persona high/2A. Actually, incidentally, do you know which one hurts less as a starter? IE, if I think this unblockable will hit me and I'm not confident enough to press dragon punch, would I take the 2A starter or the persona starter? Probably 2A, right?

Her fatal counters exist in such bizarrely rare circumstances against Akihiko.. I would even go so far as to say they are meant for different matchups. There's barely any structured way to fatal Akihiko, if you are Yukiko, but if you know of some I would be happy to know and take note.

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Well it's pretty irrelevant whether the matchup is really in one character's favor or another. And yeah I'll get to it lol, but I'm literally the king of lazy :x

You're LITERALLY the king of lazy? How does one even get the title? I want to try for it.

I remember seeing in one of the Aki combo vids as well that a starter was Aki doing a Hook into Yukiko's dp, the dp fully coming out and then the hook cancelling into EX Corkscrew. Does the invincibility really start that early for EX Corkscrew? I mean i knew it was good but dayum.

If that's what Robawtninja is talking about anyway.

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@Dacid:

Yukiko doesn't score fatal counters easily at all (AOA included, with that 33f startup). The only FC she can really plan on is 5C for punishing certain things like DPs and other moves that have really bad recovery. 2D can be used to tag rolls, but that requires a good read on her part, and you get some room to maneuver if she guesses wrong. 5D...there's really no reason for anyone to eat this FC. If you do, you screwed up badly and deserve the 5k+ she'll probably get off it.

With 2A+2D unblockables, block high and let 2A open you up. It's only a few hundred damage difference, but she's not breaking 2k damage (pre-awakening) off those without wasting meter on a super at the end (read: not worth it unless it's going to kill, or the reset for similar damage she'll get in the corner will finish the job).

A lesser used setup is sweep+2D; this one's more dangerous if done properly (damage can get to 3k+ regardless of which hit opens you up, coupled with Fire Break setups that can come off it, she can reach 7-8k+ total damage for a complete string of setups), but is harder to utilize as it can only be followed up when synch'd with the last hit of 2D, and even then, only midscreen unless Yukiko's willing to sacrifice her burst (not worth it unless it will close out a match), OMC it + cough up another 25SP to convert it into a proper combo, or take a less optimal and damaging setup by going staight into Agi xx Agidyne. I don't think I've ever seen another Yukiko play with this one, so it probably isn't something you need to worry too much about.

On a related note, most of Yukiko's damage comes off her resets. If done right (high/lows: following an air throw or set up with Agi for oki; Fire Break: varies), there really isn't a whole lot you can do about them. Properly executed high/lows, you're pretty much boned since Yukiko doesn't have to commit until you're blocking the Agi that goes off before 2D comes down; if she's on point, she can punish the vast majority of escape attempts except for stupidly good things like Teddie's DP.

Fire Break unblockables are trickier, as the more damaging ones are meant to catch techs. If Maragi's coming (generally the most damaging option in most situations), don't tech at all; it'll get added on to the combo previous and you'll take minimal damage while being able to escape. If she sets SB Agi, you're boned and not getting away without taking damage unless you have Maziodyne available, burn it on wakeup, and OMC it; this one can be especially dangerous, as she can chain two unblockable combos together off a single use in the corner. Any other use is generally suboptimal due to being easier to escape or dealing significantly less damage (shenanigans with Agi/Agidyne in blockstrings, day 0 C Maragidyne>Fire Break>D Maragidyne crap, etc.), but still inherently dangerous simply because of the unblockable nature of the move and Yukiko's potential for stringing unblockables together.

Edit:

EX Corkscrew's invul is from 1-18. I haven't been kidding around when I've been talking about how good that tool is. I think the match Robawtninja was talking about was in the second video at 6:50. Akihiko does what looks like Kill Rush xx Hook xx EX Duck (Yukiko uses Dia) xx Hook xx Parry (catches Dia) xx D Weave. There's a yellow flash at 6:52 that looks like a successful Parry iirc, and the Weave looks a little late to have gotten out of Dia's range in time.

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Thanks!

And yes, EX Corkscrew is godhand. And it's not guardpoint, like EX Hook, so if the attack is out there's no fading off just because someone touched it.

Ryd', your contributions have been spectacular! Thank you so much. I think this might be one of the most detailed matchup threads on all of dustloop because of your help. I'm often a bit too busy to give such detailed answers, and probably didn't even know half as much of the matchup as you did. Thanks a lot.

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You're LITERALLY the king of lazy? How does one even get the title? I want to try for it.

I remember seeing in one of the Aki combo vids as well that a starter was Aki doing a Hook into Yukiko's dp, the dp fully coming out and then the hook cancelling into EX Corkscrew. Does the invincibility really start that early for EX Corkscrew? I mean i knew it was good but dayum.

If that's what Robawtninja is talking about anyway.

But see that's the thing, you're already wanting to try to get it. That in itself would not be lazy :d

Also great stuff, thanks Ryd. Now the next best thing I need...the actual experience lol.

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This is for sure the most detailed matchup thread. Every other one seems so dead. I'm actually glad we had that debate kinda. And thanks Ryd, that's what I thought it was as well because he did yell "come" in between so I guess it was a successful counter. Too bad they didn't convert damage off at the time. It's some nice tech.

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Another little tip in case this isn't widely known: Yukiko's realistic airtight blockstring options end at 5AA; technically 5AA 2A+B, but that's hardly optimal since the only thing she can do from there is special cancel unless she wants to burn a chunk of meter. Given Akihiko's range, this doesn't mean a whole lot since Yukiko can safely pressure at a distance that you can't really retaliate from (this is a large part of what makes her pressure scary for a lot of characters once she gains solid momentum, not just Akihiko). However, if Yukiko is close enough and likes to use unsafe blockstrings (anything that goes beyond 5AA, lol), you can IB the second A and DP her before 5B can come out. At certain ranges, the IB isn't necessary, but I'm not sure if Akihiko can connect at that range. You can also do this between 5B and 5C if she's close enough, though I think most Yukiko players are moving more in favor of 5AA 5B 2C for safety purposes, as 5B 2C is tighter than 5B 5C. If you have meter to burn, a reversal super is also an option, and something like Maziodyne lets you punish from any range. Back to the initial point, safe Yukiko players will jc 5AA into whatever they feel like doing to possibly maintain momentum or create space, and there really isn't a whole lot anyone can do about this, so it's up to you to figure out what kind of player you're dealing with. If it's the overly aggressive kind, you have an option to put her in her place for treading on your turf (close quarters combat).

Now the next best thing I need...the actual experience lol.

Get ready to be frustrated if you find a decent Yukiko. I won't deny that she's an incredibly annoying character for most to fight; not necessarily the most threatening in most situations, but she can cause a lot of aggravation if you're the impatient type.

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5C is slower than 5B by 4 frames. In theory, that string would have enough of a window to throw out a Parry and catch 5C. You'd have to be psychic for that, though, and I don't think I've seen a Yukiko do that.

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