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Skye

[P4A] Akihiko vs Yukiko

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Get ready to be frustrated if you find a decent Yukiko. I won't deny that she's an incredibly annoying character for most to fight; not necessarily the most threatening in most situations, but she can cause a lot of aggravation if you're the impatient type.

I've only played like one decent yukiko, and one good yukiko lol. luckily I no longer have a problem with patience after playing against lambda nearly all the time in BB. not exactly the same but I know not to lose my head in matches when you can't get in.

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Oh, I kind of always thought that part of a matchup was like, theoretically both players are at the same level (for the sake of determining the matchup and validating how often or not a good read is typically made), and that the reads that might be situational for each player (because you know, they definitely are) still factor in. Just for the theory of it, but I don't really know anything lol.

p.s. sorry for commenting and never really adding anything. I just like to say things. lol.

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Go watch the concept matches. Results aren't absolute, but they aren't completely devoid of information, either. The Akihiko team was able to pull off a solid share of the wins, and it wasn't always because he made two good guesses or Yukiko did something really stupid and then guessed a mixup wrong. There were some matches where a character had a really strong showing, but there were a lot of others that were quite close (and not simply because "lol, Yukiko at 60~80% health is one hit away from death").

I'm restating myself, but given her startup/recovery times (seriously, take her into training mode and get a feel for what it's like to whiff fans and whatnot; it's awful), Yukiko has to commit with a zoning option without any kind of guarantee that it'll connect when she throws it out unless she's already established momentum (then you have to wait out the bigger stuff or take a risk). Akihiko can (and does, in the videos) bait her ranged options and punish her cleanly for them, at times getting anywhere from 60-80% of her health. "One good read" is primarily in regards to SB Corkscrew, which is one hell of a good tool for the matchup, and something that forces Yukiko to respect Akihiko on the ground the moment he is at 25 meter and at 3/4 of the stage distance (at max zoom out; this thing is kind of ridiculous); not difficult achievements. It's not his only option though; his movement may not be on Yosuke's level, but he can maneuver around Yukiko's game (again, watch the videos). That he can work his way in without requiring the stars aligning, coupled with the fact that it seriously hurts when he does, make the fight a lot a closer than you seem to give it credit for. It also doesn't hurt that his frame data completely kicks Yukiko's ass. Going back to bad analogies; with Tager vs Nu, Tager had huge numbers, but that was in no way anywhere close to even for him because he had no realistic options for getting where he wanted to be without some big mistakes on Nu's part. Akihiko doesn't need huge mistakes; a simple whiffed fan (among other things) is enough for him to close from various positions at mid screen, and he can force his way in with meter, with an extra cost to make it safe it was blocked. Yes, that cost is steep for much of the game (50 meter for hitting awakening lessens the hit somewhat), but the reward is huge (getting in on Yukiko reduces her safe options to 0). I also think you're selling Akihiko's mixup short. It's not impossible to defend against, but top players still fall for his essentially 5-way game often enough for him to keep running it rather than not bothering and trying for counter hits and frame traps exclusively. It's not as good as Millia's mixup game, but it does earn him a fair share of hits.

For more realistic analogies, Slayer/Jam vs Testament in GGAC were not particularly bad matchups for the close range characters; I believe Slayer was even (ultimately; it was said to be Testament's advantage earlier in the game's life) while Jam was 4.5 (not a noteworthy disadvantage). Like Akihiko, both of them had to work around a character that could control much of the screen; and like Akihiko, they had ways around that, with the matchup becoming even more level once they got enough meter for their nastier tools: DoT, BBU, FB Puffball; these were the great equalizers. That they cost meter is irrelevent, they were amazing tools and had to be respected the moment they became available. These characters also operated on the "land 2 hits and win" philosophy; in the case of Slayer, sometimes 1 was enough. Key differences here are that Akihiko is, on the whole, a bit slower than those two (noticeably slower than Jam most of the time; feels close to Slayer's movement speed) and has less range overall; Yukiko's options are generally slower than Testaments, with longer recovery on the majority of them, her average damage is noticeably lower, and she lacks good tools at close range (HS Beast) that the opponent has to respect when she (Yukiko) is not in immediate control.

I'm not going to say that the matchup is in Akihiko's favor, but evenish seems about right. Yukiko might have slight advantage (6-4 at the very worst; 5.5 or even seems more correct) due to the neutral game early on (she is much more likely to be able to slip away and start her ranged game than Akihiko is to catch her from the start, so he's almost guaranteed to have to do some work for the win), but the speed at which the fight can be turned around is too great for her to hold a significant advantage here, especially since she has issues regaining momentum if she's completely lost it (again, Slayer/Jam vs Testament). She has the ability to set the initial pace from the start of the match, and if she's able to get him in the corner and work her real game, it can be incredibly painful. Conversely, she has no safe options once he gets in, he has the tools to make that happen, and his ability to convert hits into damage is stronger than hers (even more advantageous coupled with the differences in health). All this makes for an incredibly volatile matchup. That's not theory-fighter; actual play reflects that.

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So I'm seeing these concept matches, and I'm seeing Akihiko struggle the ways I described.

And then I see him getting by on 1 or more of 3;

Good reads

Circumstance, aka Luck

Poor Defense on Yukiko's end

I'm not seeing too much that's proving me wrong. Even Kubo got fucked up, and from what I hear he's the Hollywood Akihiko, and for good reason.

It seems more of team Akihiko simply beating the odds (and not by much) instead of showing the true nature of the match up.

I stand by my opinions, but arguing further isn't going to get anywhere.

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So I'm seeing these concept matches, and I'm seeing Akihiko struggle the ways I described.

And then I see him getting by on 1 or more of 3;

Good reads

Circumstance, aka Luck

Poor Defense on Yukiko's end

I'm not seeing too much that's proving me wrong. Even Kubo got fucked up, and from what I hear he's the Hollywood Akihiko, and for good reason.

It seems more of team Akihiko simply beating the odds (and not by much) instead of showing the true nature of the match up.

I stand by my opinions, but arguing further isn't going to get anywhere.

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Everyone else expected Akihiko to struggle and fail more often than not.. me and Ryd expected Akihiko to struggle and go even. Before watching the match videos, I told you all that the way the matchup works is Akihiko gets hit a lot and then gets in once and wins.. but it's still somehow surprising when it happens?

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His damage conversion with 100 meter is -consistently- higher than mitsuru and kanji. What you're failing to realize is absolutely any hit confirms into a viable combo when akihiko has 75 meter or higher. If Mitsuru hits a standing non CH 5A, it's nothing unless opponent is crouching. Random 2A, nothing. Kanji 5A/2A, nothing. etc. Actually Kanji very -rarely- has good damage on his normals, it's kind of an awful example.

Not as awful as the repeated comparison to Nu V Tager though. Seriously, what is this analogy? It makes literally no sense. Stop doing this. Just for sake of argument, I will briefly lay out why this analogy is truly horrible, by comparing Akihiko's quick, fundamental advantages over Tager. And remember, this is CT Tager, who had even more against him.

-A dash (A strong dash, too, I should add)

-A double jump

-Airdash

-Gap closers that aren't negative on block and are solid on whiff (A Kill rush, specifically)

-Hard call outs that go full screen in ~16 or 28 frames, depending if you want invuln/have meter or not

-Vastly superior structural offensive choices with meter (Not just guess right once win guess wrong once lose)

-A plethora of defensive choices not shared by Tager (DP, EX Sway, roll)

-A HIT BOX THAT DOESNT TAKE UP THE ENTIRE SCREEN

Okay, are we done with that? I ignored it this long because it was so nonsensical. Maybe that was a mistake. And fucking believe me, if you ran a team Tager VERSUS Team Nu concept match, it would be Team Nu DOMINATES. That DID NOT HAPPEN with Aki V Yukiko. Why would they even be doing a concept matchup in the first place if the results didn't mean anything? I think it's important that everyone goes into a matchup thread with the understanding they could be wrong, and if the evidence begins to show otherwise, the viewpoint should change. I have not felt this from most players on this board though.

Your pros and cons are misleading too. A better air game, what does that mean?? If Akihiko hits his very fast air dash jB in air to air circumstances, he gets over 4k with meter, or a knockdown and meter without. And how does she anti air him? Akihiko's anti air is one of the best in the game, but if he's above her the best she can do is either predict the jump in so hard she already had a fan there, or force him to block if he is content not to press anything. There are many strengths you're leaving out.

And I'm sorry once again, but if you're calling into question the level of play exhibited by the Yukiko's in this video.. you're a NUT. These are 4 of the best Yukiko's in the world, so saying their defense is suspect is laughable. What this actually does is bring me to question if you even understand the level of play you are watching, to imply such disrespect. (Specific quote being: "You play Akihiko, so you should know more than anyone that you don't need to have a DP to have defensive options, and oftentimes your problems are solved just by blocking until the string is over. Yukiko doesn't do that, and it's the player's fault. Not a factor of the match up.")

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You know... Yukiko doesn't even need to whiff the fans. I usually IB or even block normally the first one and dash through the second with A+C or Duck.

A+C also ignores Maragi and most mid level players will start to freak out when they see Akihiko going toward them dodging a ton of projectiles and persona attacks.

Just dodge her stuff and hum the jaws music if you're near the other player and you should be fine.

In my opinion it's a 6-4 advantage to Yukiko, because even though Akihiko can reach her, she needs less time and effort to wreck you.

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It feels like a 6 - 4 Yukiko favor to me. Your main offensive/defensive tool is looking for the gaps to move forward. You can instant block fo' the meter (the +2 you gain on it is nice too) and once you have 25 meter look for solid things to SB cork through. Just be patient -- block like a man and wait for your time. Yukiko wants you to either turtle so she can get fire break going or self-destruct by constantly holding forward. Change up your approaches and put the fear in her.

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This is one of those match ups that feels really bad at all times so it seems it's much worse than it actually is. IMO it's 6-4 in her favor so it's not that bad, just really annoying once she gets going. Patience is the answer. Basically I look at the match up like this- Akihiko isn't winning the fight, he's stealing it.

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This is definitely a 6 to 4 in yukikos favor. Like everyone says, its mostly a waiting game, and a patience game till you can get hit. If you are playing a good yukiko, she will probably try to go for the unblockable setups which require her to use SB agi. You can short hop > jb out of it if timed right, but this is, again, hard to pull. My general advice is to IB as much as possible and wait for a good moment to use an assault counter to get some space. You can also troll her really hard if they are DP happy with EX hook> corkscrew to get a cool 5ish K combo (she can cancel her dia into agidyne though so mind her SP). If her persona is broken most yukikos will jump back and throw fans, you can use a lame roll OR DO THE SUPER AWESOME EX PARRY INTO CORK 'cause fatals.

I think pretty much everything that needed to be said has been said already... its a game of patience. If you play your cards right you get a chance, but general battle flow dominance goes to yukiko. Only reason aki gets a 4 in that matchup is because of hsi comeback potential like dacidbro said. If you are patient and you get a lot of SP off of that, your comeback game becomes all the more frightening. :v

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This is one of those match ups that feels really bad at all times so it seems it's much worse than it actually is. IMO it's 6-4 in her favor so it's not that bad, just really annoying once she gets going. Patience is the answer. Basically I look at the match up like this- Akihiko isn't winning the fight, he's stealing it.

Exactly. The match-up feels worse than it actually is. The important thing is to never let her get comfortable, if you manage to be a constant threat you make her do mistakes and then you punish her for being a human. Of course it's not a simple task, but it's certainly something possible.

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