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Urichinan

[P4A] Shadow Labrys vs. Yu

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Rising j.B actually hits standing Yu, so while on other characters it can be a kind of risky thing to specifically target personas with, against Yu you can tag a lot of random stuff he'd try with it, making it worth throwing out periodically. On counterhit you have time to land and confirm a combo, even.

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Played against a "good" (he knows his stuff at least) Yu player, it's hell. Every Yu's B moves bypass Asterius armor, so you will get persona break really fast (even his lighting ball destroys our persona).

His normal moves have more range than you and are way faster, his 2B is godlike and even our j.B will lose against it. Once he lands a sweep against you, it's where the trouble begins, as his huge blockstrings and mixups start. Our B+D isn't good, he can safe jump it quite easily during the blockstring.

I think the match up is to keep him at distance, while guarding with our persona all the time, until you can land a hard knockdown and mixup him to death in one go. Once he gets you, you are in trouble.

It's not a really good match up

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His 2B (The anti-air) is actually one frame slower than our 5A, which is out fastest attack. So that's a really good example of how just how much faster he is than Shadow Labrys.

I agree that it's a really tough match-up, and you've got to keep away from him as much as you can. The match-up should be treated as if it were a Kanji player you are fighting, you can't go in on him from the air (His DP is air unblockable) and going in from the ground risks getting stopped by his very far reaching normals and a fireball. When you knock him down you have to be very cautious about his DP, it can be super canceled to make it safer (But not completely from what I've experienced). So you have to back off a little bit until you train them not to use their DP, and then go for your mixups.

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Yeah, i facepalmed when i saw that his DP is air unblockable. What where they thinking. It's already fast has hell and as a decent hitbox, it didn't need to be air unblockable :(

edit : only the first hit of his dp is unblockable actually. Might change something, or not.

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Regarding his DP's supposed safety, on block, you can just run under it. He can't super cancel and get his moves to come out the other way, so neither Ziodyne nor Cross Slash will stuff an attempt at 5B fatal > AoA. They'll make it whiff, but for Ziodyne you can just do it AGAIN (or 2B if he did air ziodyne) and cross slash you can run up and get a 5A combo at least.

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Yu feels like he has the advantage if he gets in on you, hope you can block mixups well. Like most matchups Slabrys wants the knockdown to start her mixups. I've found that 8C and 236C are useful mainly because Asterius isn't as exposed to getting poked and you getting persona broken.

EX's are good ideas to help you start pressure since as long as you don't get hit only supers can stop him. This is a fight where you can't just try mixups because of that dp so empty jump to block and double jump over him to bait wake-up dp is worth doing if the yu player likes to dp instead of blocking.

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Any thoughts on beating that 5D oki off of a knockdown? Guard cancelling seems to be the only option that doesn't involve getting stuck in a long blockstring with embedded mixups.

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Any thoughts on beating that 5D oki off of a knockdown? Guard cancelling seems to be the only option that doesn't involve getting stuck in a long blockstring with embedded mixups.

Not teching can get you out of many setups but it does also mean you take extra damage since the 5D will tend to scrape you up into another knockdown, though, that knockdown at least will not have as strong of a setup off of it. In general, though, the way to beat Yu's silly mixup is to fight Yu a lot and learn how to block it, and run your spacing such that you avoid being caught in it as much you can. This kind of sucks for you, though, because Yu's pokes are as a whole better than yours... But, it is what it is.

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Not teching can get you out of many setups but it does also mean you take extra damage since the 5D will tend to scrape you up into another knockdown, though, that knockdown at least will not have as strong of a setup off of it. In general, though, the way to beat Yu's silly mixup is to fight Yu a lot and learn how to block it, and run your spacing such that you avoid being caught in it as much you can. This kind of sucks for you, though, because Yu's pokes are as a whole better than yours... But, it is what it is.

Hrm, can't he confirm a j.B off of you getting hit by the 5D into another sweep knockdown? It felt like the same setup, but I don't know much about this matchup (Most of the Yu's I've played are really bad). The only thing that kind of concerned me was that there doesn't seem to be holes in his setup strings unless he tries very specific things (All out attack, Any version of Lion, evasive action/frametrap 5DD). Other than that, I felt like I was mostly just stuck blocking and looking to tech throws.

I found that the only redeeming part of this matchup is that we have some really great antiair options against him. Starting up 2B when he's used up all of his air options/committed to an air normal in your headspace completely and utterly ruins his jump in options. None of his hitboxes are disjointed enough to tag you from outside of 2B range (Cross up or non, as his j.B is about the same spacing as our 2B, and I was finding that 2B pretty much goes straight through it). I'm not entirely sure about this, but I think 2B might also stuff all versions of Lion. I know I was catching the A Lion with it at least (Not sure about the B or SB versions). 2C did work pretty well, but I'm not sure if it's worth it in this matchup because Asterios is way more useful as a projectile barrier >.>

Kinda got bodied after he stopped taking to the air though - Couldn't figure out how to deal with the ground to ground when his 5B comes out almost as fast as our 5A and has about twice the reach. (And can be cancelled into a lion or zio on block)

One thing I didn't try and should have is Air to Ground though. Jumping in feels bad, but avoiding ground approaches at superjump height seems fairly decent. He doesn't really seem to have any outstanding air to airs (EDIT: If you're above him, that is) other than his BD (Which as we know is very unsafe on block).

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Hrm, can't he confirm a j.B off of you getting hit by the 5D into another sweep knockdown? It felt like the same setup, but I don't know much about this matchup (Most of the Yu's I've played are really bad). The only thing that kind of concerned me was that there doesn't seem to be holes in his setup strings unless he tries very specific things (All out attack, Any version of Lion, evasive action/frametrap 5DD). Other than that, I felt like I was mostly just stuck blocking and looking to tech throws.

I found that the only redeeming part of this matchup is that we have some really great antiair options against him. Starting up 2B when he's used up all of his air options/committed to an air normal in your headspace completely and utterly ruins his jump in options. None of his hitboxes are disjointed enough to tag you from outside of 2B range (Cross up or non, as his j.B is about the same spacing as our 2B, and I was finding that 2B pretty much goes straight through it). I'm not entirely sure about this, but I think 2B might also stuff all versions of Lion. I know I was catching the A Lion with it at least (Not sure about the B or SB versions). 2C did work pretty well, but I'm not sure if it's worth it in this matchup because Asterios is way more useful as a projectile barrier >.>

Kinda got bodied after he stopped taking to the air though - Couldn't figure out how to deal with the ground to ground when his 5B comes out almost as fast as our 5A and has about twice the reach. (And can be cancelled into a lion or zio on block)

One thing I didn't try and should have is Air to Ground though. Jumping in feels bad, but avoiding ground approaches at superjump height seems fairly decent. He doesn't really seem to have any outstanding air to airs (EDIT: If you're above him, that is) other than his BD (Which as we know is very unsafe on block).

Oh you will definitely get re knocked down if you neglect to tech off the ground, but he can't just keep looping the same setup there. There's stuff you can do if doesn't hit meaty.

Air to ground is generally bad. His 2B is nonsensically good. Against a lot of 2Bs you can throw around your j.B right and clash with it but his hits twice so that's not gonna work out. You can jump around it and try to make a guessing game but it's really not reliable. He's mobile enough to fairly reliably be able to run up 2B stuff. He has no reason to go air to air with you given his godlike 2B.

What makes this matchup workable, imo, is how dramatically it shifts in your favor once you get pressure. Yu's DP is not good at escaping your general traps and if you can get him to block or better yet force a real hit then you can start to work your magic. I generally play it pretty cautiously, waiting for an opening in his pressure, then start up my game from there. He doesn't have anything that's actually plus so if you can identify where your opponent is placing the gaps in their pressure and you know where to IB you can get in a quick 5A, for instance. Just don't get fatal countered.

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Oh you will definitely get re knocked down if you neglect to tech off the ground, but he can't just keep looping the same setup there. There's stuff you can do if doesn't hit meaty.

Do you mean ground tech and then just get hit by the 5D? Never actually tried that, but I kinda assumed since it's +65 on block, on hit he should be able to loop back into it if the player reaction is on point. . . Will have to do some testing there.

Air to ground is generally bad. His 2B is nonsensically good. Against a lot of 2Bs you can throw around your j.B right and clash with it but his hits twice so that's not gonna work out. You can jump around it and try to make a guessing game but it's really not reliable. He's mobile enough to fairly reliably be able to run up 2B stuff. He has no reason to go air to air with you given his godlike 2B.

Kinda figured as much, that thing comes out fast and has a gigantic hitbox. . . Although, one option that does open up is a long range buffalo hammer setup to try to force a jump. Speaking of which, I still need to test how well the SB buffalo cuts into being stuck in one of his blockstrings. Seems like it should be decently reliable if the input is fast and clean, but it's definitely something that requires testing. . .

What makes this matchup workable, imo, is how dramatically it shifts in your favor once you get pressure. Yu's DP is not good at escaping your general traps and if you can get him to block or better yet force a real hit then you can start to work your magic. I generally play it pretty cautiously, waiting for an opening in his pressure, then start up my game from there. He doesn't have anything that's actually plus so if you can identify where your opponent is placing the gaps in their pressure and you know where to IB you can get in a quick 5A, for instance. Just don't get fatal countered.

I don't really know his blockstrings well enough to determine where the IB holes are in it, other than basically the Sweep and 5C/2C.

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