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LM_Akira

Order-Sol vs. Venom

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Not a complete strategy guide but some basic discussion and some things I've learnt from experience/testing: The Venom fight is always going to be frustrating for Order-Sol. If you're playing a defensive style Venom you may have to be very patient before you can get in to score damage as Venom can quite easily sit on the other side of the screen, set balls and hit them all day long. If you're good at predicting the ball's trajectories you can do funky things like nullify them with 6P, sweep under them, SB and so on but this isn't going to help you mount an offense. Don't ever bother using 6P against electric balls however. Venom can throw out 5S(f) and 2S to stop you simply running him down. Don't try to blindly rush in, you need to make sensible choices in order to get close (FD brake is good here). Stinger Aim and Carcass Ride, coupled with ball setups and other normals used to hit the balls combine to make it especially hard to close the gap at times. You can, however, land a j.HS CH from IAD pretty easily if Venom is mindlessly setting balls on the other side of the screen and not paying attention. Venom's 6P and to a lesser extent 6HS serve as good anti air for him now if you predictively try to jump into him. You generally need to be creative in order to land a jump-in from open play. NEVER GUN BLAZE TO GET IN! (This holds true normally anyway) A missed GB can result in easy knockdown for Venom. A good Venom can actually kill you from 1 knockdown (see later). Venom's 2D is pretty awesome now but if your opponent is over-using it try to bait it with djs. It beats things like Lv1 RI and Lv1 GB, however, if you baited the 2D, Lv1 RI can in fact be used to punish it, as well as Fafnir amongst other things. If Venom is in range for 2K, he can do 2K, 2D, K ball setup and hit the ball as a meaty oki option with j.K. He can then either jump in and go high (...) or low (2K) or jump over you and go high (backwards airdash j.HS ...) or low (2K) and reset the whole knockdown option from there (2K, 5S©, 5HS K dubious curve or 2K, 2D, K dubious curve or backwards airdash j.HS, 5S©, 5HS, DC or whatever, something similar). Something to bare in mind as Venom can almost kill you from 1 knockdown if you don't watch closely for the mixup. Reversal Lv1 SV and Lv1 TR are you friends against this oki setup, otherwise you have to block the ball then watch for the near instant follow-up. If Venom is using strings which end in 5HS, dubious curve on block, you can use reversal Lv1 TR or Lv1 SV against it. You can be pinned down by this block string quite easily (DC is level 5) when there is no need to be. Using FD is also another option, as well as backdash and Slashback (GB is possible but risky). 5HS, DC on hit is probably near impossible to stagger out of in reality so you'll usually end up taking the hit and sliding knockdown (and getting a damn electric ball setup coming your way). Venom can also throw out Dark Angel after hitting you with the stagger from 5HS and the whole thing will pretty much combo. The mind game changes slightly if the Venom you're playing against likes to FRC the DC at the end of a block string because he can then punish a whiffed reversal SV if you don't AC FRC it for example. Venom's j.HS has a good hitbox to it, good for jumping in and also for meeting moves in the air, i.e. it can be used to punish predictable airdashes / jumping attacks. If Venom is using it too much as a jump in Lv1 GB works well as anti air against it. If you can react quickly enough to it you can beat it with j.P (same goes for Venom's j.S). In the corner watch for Venom's Dust attack as he'll get a free knockdown and continued oki pressure from it. He can even get a ball setup from it (electric DC). Lv1 BHB AC on the other side of the screen from Venom can actually be punished by a HS Stinger Aim. Whiffing any laggy special against Venom (e.g. Lv1 SV AC without FRC) can be punished by a dash in sweep or gatling into sweep back into oki pressure. Mad struggle and FB Mad Struggle are overheads! Don't ever both DAAing against them as they have multiple hits! You can GB under Dark Angel if you time it well but a better option is probably to hj over it or hj.IAD over it. Blocking it on the ground gives Venom a free mixup (he can hide behind it and go low or overhead). Air blocking it with FD is another option but its best to avoid blocking it completely if possible. (If you try to high jump over it, Venom may try and knock out down into it with j.HS or j.D) Since he has no DP-style move on wakeup, occasionally you can throw in a fuzzy guard mixup fairly safely.

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As I play a lot the venom matchup in my area, I will add some things that works for me a lot : I try to get a Lv2 before trying to get in so if i can touch him I get the knockdown, since he has no dp like mentionned before, he s in trouble because as my peeps says "OS is the okizeme king" , if you manage levels and AC FRC you could have combo + oki the most of time meaning that VE is going to shit straight in the pants! Keeping 25% of tension, so if your VE player is 2D or CR happy, fafnir him into combo he will eat a major pain, and you got done the half part of the win. If you get the good distance, the ball of the CR will pass through your fafnir and nail him for free ! (BRP lv2 or lv3 can be used too.) Watchout if you think about reversal SV on wake up , he could get a free CR Loop before you could AC FRC. Prepare to get cornered a lot, if VE does the job well, the good thing about it it s that if you managed yourself to Throw him, you get a combo ending with a tech trap leading to KD (in case of succes) or KD directly if you got a LV2.

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And I will add a thing too : when venom has no ball on the stage, rush him, even if you do not have tension or level. You HAVE to rush him, if you stay on you side, you're dead, so no back dash, no retreat, and if you do it well you'll see that venom will have hard time cause he cannot put a ball. ;)

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But he can spam 5S(f) to keep you from blindly rushing him down on the ground tho (if that's what you're talking about). Dash sweep may be able to work for you here but you'd probably have to do it pre-emptively (not something I've tested myself tbh).

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You are right Akira but I think dashing on the ground is better than air dash because of the 6P, 6HS. Against venom you have to learn how to dash break efficiently, in my opinion of course, because a S garded, two S dash break, and Venom will start to stress a bit if you continue tu pressure his life distance.

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Or you could advance like a sane person and not get ched into oblivion. If you can get him to try to zone you with grounded normals and not balls when you're advancing you might find a hole to go for a jh ch, but honestly the risk of getting knocked down off a ch6p is not really worth fishing imo. Double jump is your friend in this match. Basically proper blocking and patience is the only way to win this match.

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So far I haven't seen 6P do that much damage, the fact he gets a ball with it is more worrying tbh. And doesn't doublejump run more risks then a backdash?:psyduck: Since if he decides to do 6P even more delayed he'd still hit you.:vbang:

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Since if he decides to do 6P even more delayed he'd still hit you.:vbang:

FD that shit.

Like Titanium Beast said a while back, if you're going to use j.P (whiff) falling j.HS vs Slayer, and he tries to AA with 2S, you actually have the time to see this and FD instead of j.HS.

So if you're djing around Venom, you should still be able to FD if you see him go for 6P.

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Yeah, but a minor detail: while both prevent 6P hit you, FD makes you lose tension. And he can get quite a string from there, so you'll lose a lot more then you'd usually like. So what's the point in doublejump FD?

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So what's the point in doublejump FD?

Because it closes the gap safely.

And if they're doing 6P as AA, they'll most likely follow with 6HS into DC or possibly 5S© after the 6P. Basically if you FD the 6P late, you won't need to FD that much as you'll land before he starts a long string.

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