Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Circuitous

[P4A] Kanji vs. Chie: Who's manlier?

Recommended Posts

vs meteors up close: use the invincible command throw to avoid the meteors and grab Chie upon landing at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im surprised that nobody mentioned her corner oki

anyway, don't get cornered

if you do, you have to block low-high-low and she can reset it again

her corner locks and annoying, but you can furious action through it at the end of her blockstring(she lifts her leg and swipes up then down)

close up kanji wins

in this matchup, it is probably better to use 5C>2C as opposed to j.C>2C. the reason being that her persona has an ok mid range, so using a move with even better range can break her easier. once she's broken, it's curtains because everything she does afterwards becomes unsafe, and you no longer have to deal with her corner locks

:D

far away kanji can use j.D to lock her down and paralyze. you can try to do j.214AB while it's active, but it's risky, however well worth the reward

if you do manage to corner her (214AB is successful) you can do:

5A>5B>2C>216B to try and open her up

Also, like an most matches, you want to go for a fatal, since chie will almost be dead after a 5000-6000 combo. if you do manage to strike her, as well as her persona with 5C, remember that you can follow up with 2C>2B>216B>5A>5B>2B>5C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like using the C button at all in this matchup. I ran into MarlinPie a bunch of times in Ranked and he was punishing every 5C with Chie's CH 5C Dash Cancel into mad damage on reaction online. If you whiff 5C, it looks like you'll die, and if you're in range enough for it not to whiff, Chie's got so many faster buttons. If you want to use 5C, you need to pepper her with 5B to stop her from pressing buttons in close. 5B is Kanji's farthest reaching normal that isn't whiff-punishable on reaction in this matchup. It still loses to her 5C, but it'll stop her from just dashing into your face.

Mix in with a liberal use of D, j.B, and plenty of varied aerial movement so she can't get a bead on you and punish with things like run-in 2B.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
far away kanji can use j.D to lock her down and paralyze. you can try to do j.214AB while it's active, but it's risky, however well worth the reward

if you do manage to corner her (214AB is successful) you can do:

5A>5B>2C>216B to try and open her up

Also, like an most matches, you want to go for a fatal, since chie will almost be dead after a 5000-6000 combo. if you do manage to strike her, as well as her persona with 5C, remember that you can follow up with 2C>2B>216B>5A>5B>2B>5C

There's some problems here. 5C isn't a good poke, and Chie doesn't really use any moves that you should be able to punish with it either.

Your combo notation is confused, I'm pretty sure you mean 236B not 216. Full screen jD into 214AB is really really really bad/scrubby tactic that doesn't count as match up advice. I'm not even sure why Chie would be full screen or what she could be doing to get hit by j.D to become paralyzed, but even on hit it would still not be good advice.

I'm pretty sure you mean 5A 5B 2B 236B, which has no overheads, lows or throws in it. I don't see how that opens someone up.

Also your fatal combo is weird or unfinished? I'm very confused as to how it came to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I can tell, 2B is COMPLETELY useless in this matchup. I ran around ~20 matches with a guy and tried it in a lot of different situations/approaches when I actually guessed her jumping in right. I think the best I ever got was a hit on her persona, and only once. Watched some Yamamura... and he landed it/used it once out of ~4 matches, didn't use it otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my experience this matchup just sucks. Chie will just rush you down there's really not much you can do about it imo except f-action. In this matchup I would stay out of the air because a lot of the times Chie can just run up on you and 2b you the combo with aoa and do 2DD for free oki.

  • She can rapid cancel 5aaa for a free overhead
  • Run up 2b will beat j.c & j.b if she's right under you. Which most of the time she will be or she can aa you with j.a/5a
  • When she ends a combo with aoa always delay tech as long as possible so have the ability to f-action

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, one of the biggest problems there are with fighting Chie is the speed of her pokes and her resulting footsies. Particularly things like 5C, black dot, air dash J.B, 2B, and J.C.

Chie can use her 5C to poke and outpoke everything Kanji has--the startup and range are ridiculous in comparison to all of Kanji's options, and she can dash cancel them to run forward and pressure him afterwards. Chie can seriously just sit there and wait for Kanji to do almost any of his moves and reaction dash up, 5C, dash cancel and combo, unfortunately. Kanji does not have a reliable counter to this, but if a chie is relying heavily on it, keep a few things in mind: If it whiffs (rather hard to do with her dash speed and it's range) you can go for a quick 2C or a 2AB in order to punish, but be careful with 2AB, as it might hit her persona and not her, allowing her to… press 5C and punish you anyway. 2C also has issues due to the speed of the attack, making it an unlikely punish. Otherwise, the best way to counter the attack is to try and make it whiff while you attack so she can’t cancel it and be safe. If you think you can bait her into it, the best option for Kanji would be to jump away as soon as she gets in range and instantly hit J.C, letting you get a nice fatal punish for the recklessness. Alternatively, it’s risky, but you can try doing a sliding 214D by canceling dash frames to ‘slide forward’ into the grab, else you’ll never be close enough to actually grab her through Tomoe.

Black dot also sucks for Kanji because it’s really hard for him to do anything about it. Both are scary to get hit by and safe on block, and you can’t really tell which version she’s using until it’s too late. If it whiffs (unlikely to happen) just try to snag a persona card (and be wary of her spamming it a second time to catch THAT). Otherwise, your best bet for punishing careless use of it is rolling through the C version and C/CD grabbing Chie. D version is slower to come out, has her persona as invinc, and the active frames WILL catch rolls—only thing you can really do is do a quick 2AB to hit chie and stop the move entirely

Chie’s airdash options, like airdash in J.B are all way too good for Kanji to reliably counter, as she can do them quite low to the ground and just land/block bait a 2B quite easily. Not quite sure what to do about these other than scare her with the occasional 236CD.

Lastly her j.c isn’t really an amazing move but it gets special mention for being annoying as hell for Kanji when he’s cornered—if it hits, she gets to double jump, do another one, airdash, etc… basically making it really hard for kanji to reliably punish her dropping in on him. I usually try to land a well timed 214D or BD in order to stop her from doing silly shite with it.

Chie’s footsies are way better than yours and once she gets in she gets a quick knockdown into great oki options. #fuckchie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

double post for visibility, doubly so to correct some erroneous information I posted, lol.

5C is an amazing poke for chie still, as she can dash and even jump cancel it but it's a risk for her to go in on kanji with it, hooray. 5c dash cancel forward 5a is actually -1 or so, so kanji can successfully grab her if she tries to go in and commit with 214c and 214CD. of course, chie can also backdash and just 5c again, etc etc... but it's an important option. similar to fighting yu making 5C whiff is actually huge for you, if you can bait it and dodge it you can punish with 5c for huge damage.

similarly one of chie's strongest tools is her 5a dash 5a dash etc pressure, as her 5a is +1 which makes it a dumb, strong blockstring. thankfully kanji's grabs are 5f so you can grab her in the gaps of the 5as, but you have to be careful for her chaining into 5b/2b/sweep off of the 5as, which should beat you clean.

chie's dp is really silly on a million levels. of relevance to us if she does it to beat our meaty 5a pressure or whatever we're sad! thankfully if you trigger it with a 5a you can cancel into DP or AoA to punish it on reaction (though you have to be 100% ready and aware of it to do it on reaction.) unfortunately she can also cancel the activation frames into power charge and do crazy damage to kanji! canceling 5a > dp still beats that though thank god. now you just have to worry about god hand/meteors lol.

god hand can be punished if kanji is at neutral when it happens a few different ways-on reaction 214D is nice and clean, DP --> 236236A will safely net you a clean 236236A counterhit to do at least 2.8k damage, more if canceled. rolling and supergrabbing probably works, and lastly blocking and doing w/e punishes, but gives her the opportunity to OMC it.

how chie ends her blockstrings is essential to punishing her: after blocking that scary oki and whatnot, she HAS to jump cancel a normal/sweep or end in 2a to keep it safe-and if you're keeping track outside of 5a dash 5a dash etc chie can only use the A button ~3 times in a blockstring before she has to use other normals, just like everyone else, so if she extends after her As, be ready to deal with a jump cancel or punish 2b/5b on block. or the startup of 5D if she's bein mad aggressive.

j.c is still dumb if she jump cancels into it it can give you a lot of problems, 2b legitimately can't beat it because IT DOES NO TCOUNT AS AN AIR MOVE. so 2b's head invinc means nothing vs it. Also be very careful in the air, as she can just spam j.a as many times as she wants, if it catches you she can force you to block the entire way down to the ground and then start a blockstring that way. no seriously it sounds weird on paper but it's really easy and it works. ;;

always always always be ready to block high/low if she cancels into a rampage because of the previously mentioned OMC cancel for a quick low.

for dealing with her oki, situation's bleak. IB as much of it as you can without getting hit for delicious meter, guard canceling is sketchy at the start because she can just airdash over you, especially in the corner and get a free punish on you because of our guard cancel's hitbox. be sure to try late teching into her oki for better options, such as making her guess whether... um... whether you dp immediately or late tech and dp immediately lol. if they're overaggressive it can work! (but seriously dping is a bad option.)

osuna's advice from earlier in the thread has a lot of errors in it, if you're up close to her you can beat her normals just fine if you know your options, being at + frames from 2c, 236b, 236AB, oki etc will let your 5A beat hers out or trade, and your grab can beat her if she's reckless. 5a 5b 2b 236b can actually be good, it 'has no highs, lows, or throws' in it but there's a 3 frame gap between 5b and 2b, which means if she jumps it'll catch her for a 236C finisher or, if she's mashing something, will land you a 4k 2bch > 5c combo. and naturally the reason why THAT is a mixup is because she's scared of grab or 5a after 5b. as for j.d catching chie shit happens, if she's going to end up in j.d range hey, hit her with j.d. watch for meteors tho

long story short: chie is going to want to run at you and push buttons because it works really well and her oki is hard to get out of. it's scary but you gotta not let her recklessly run at you (despite how fast she is), not mess up and get hit accidentally by any number of random 5c, 5as or j.bs/j.as into a blockstring and get that knockdown to run your game. it's scary and she gets momentum/easy rewards for even making you block but it's winnable as long as you dont' get discouraged by how easy she comes back!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After fighting Rybuster a lot I've found only one use for 2B: If she doesn't confirm a Sweep properly and does 5D/jD after you block her Sweep (yes she can jump cancel her Sweeps).

So if you block a Sweep, get ready to push 2B if she goes into a D move.

Other than that 2B is just asking for trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×