Order-Sol vs. Slayer

[reaVer]

If your other normals excluding 5S(f) can no longer hit him, its the moment where l1Ri > Slayer's 2H. As for the 5K/2H mixup he would have: j.H :P Bad okizeme = stupid things like 2K,5H and such, so far the only good oki slayer has is 6K and j.H:P

[whytesakura]

slayer doesn't even have to do a meaty attack. he can just walk RIGHT through hos on wake up > blown 25% tension

[WUT]

You have to be OUT of 2HS range for lvl1 RI to beat it. If you're still in 5S(f)/Fafnir range, Lvl1 RI loses to 2HS. Bad oki? 2K is great for oki, especially given Slayer's midscreen dash-through shenanigans. 5HS, 2S, 2D and the like are all meaty attacks forcing you to successfully reversal or guard, with the 2 former normals leading to Dandy Step pressure or even gatling to high/low, in 2S' case. Meaty 2D leaves Slayer with frame advantage and stays out forever, allowing for leeway and more mix-up. Slayer's "good oki" is much more than just reversal-safe highs; keep that in mind. whytesakura: Dash-through is always present during Slayer's oki. Slayer can forward dash and punish both SV and Fafnir. Of course, this tactic loses to reversal GB, which is where Slayer's meaty attacks come into play. For the record: I don't advocate always trying to reversal out of oki; your best option is always to attempt to guard and create space. I'm merely describing other options you have at your disposal.

[reaVer]

The problem with 2K is that it is reversable as you recently established. Bad oki doesn't mean "shouldn't be done" but the person doing it should realize he's pushing for reversals. The same way GB is a good oki against Sol for example, same with j.H, while 2K and 2D are not; this does not mean 2K or 2D shouldn't be used, but using them can warrant a reversal against you -> you're playing your opponent's game, not your own.

[whytesakura]

You have to be OUT of 2HS range for lvl1 RI to beat it. If you're still in 5S(f)/Fafnir range, Lvl1 RI loses to 2HS.

Bad oki? 2K is great for oki, especially given Slayer's midscreen dash-through shenanigans. 5HS, 2S, 2D and the like are all meaty attacks forcing you to successfully reversal or guard, with the 2 former normals leading to Dandy Step pressure or even gatling to high/low, in 2S' case. Meaty 2D leaves Slayer with frame advantage and stays out forever, allowing for leeway and more mix-up. Slayer's "good oki" is much more than just reversal-safe highs; keep that in mind.

whytesakura: Dash-through is always present during Slayer's oki. Slayer can forward dash and punish both SV and Fafnir. Of course, this tactic loses to reversal GB, which is where Slayer's meaty attacks come into play. For the record: I don't advocate always trying to reversal out of oki; your best option is always to attempt to guard and create space. I'm merely describing other options you have at your disposal.

def...nothing beats blocking on wake up besides throws

[reaVer]

And you don't want to know how painful certain throws can be...

[excelence]

forward dash cancel > bite > bbu... hurt like hell (>_>)

[Sesshyru]

Reversal safe Oki grab = mean >.< If you just jump + FD block half the time will that free you from that kinda pressure?

[reaVer]

? He's doing reversal safe oki and then does a throw vs attack mixup? Then you can either SV, backdash or jump FD. With the first you risk regular punishment, with the second you risk the hase 300 dmg combo (5H IAD.~P-K 5H sIAD.K-K 5H sIAD.D2K->K 5H Pilebunker) and with the last you risk an airthrow into knockdown.

[Sesshyru]

Ohyah, that option doesn't escape air grabs.. hmm.. All of your options seem to have a SV in it *snickers*

[reaVer]

you musn't underestimate teh power of teh SV!!:P

[MacArthur Blunts]

? He's doing reversal safe oki and then does a throw vs attack mixup? Then you can either SV, backdash or jump FD. With the first you risk regular punishment, with the second you risk the hase 300 dmg combo (5H IAD.~P-K 5H sIAD.K-K 5H sIAD.D2K->K 5H Pilebunker) and with the last you risk an airthrow into knockdown.

I don't think that works on HOS..

With 1fj FD airthrow is the least of your worries. Unless you're stormvipering on the way down, 2S is going to dish out a manly combo to your face.

[reaVer]

Is that the same manly combo you did on brent after he did SVV that took 150 damage for 50% tension? And that combo does work for as far as I know, its not easy but you can do it.

[Hintalove]

I really fucking hate the slayer matchup sometimes. Basically, your safest bet is going to be jumping, but fding those 6h's really owns your bar quick so you can end up jumping and not having the meter to block his potential normals and not even realize it. I honestly think that if the slayer is cautious enough, Hos is basically fucked in this match. 5s's only purpose is preemptively stuffing 2h, and that in and of it self is almost too risky to be worth trying. Rockit is pretty bangin', but 6p ch's it for free so you can't use it too liberally(though I'm pretty sure I've said it before, it owns the majority of stuff slayers tend to do in a neutral situation, ie random dandy/mappa). He can, and will anti air you. Even the mightiest of jh's will end at best in a trade, whereas you have no reliable way to anti-air him(or any one really for that matter, lolololol) and are forced to jump up to meet him or try to get out of the danger zone. I guess if your spacing was perfect, you could almost make up for all that with the ability to combo most grounded gatlings into fafnir into dloop, but I personally never land that combo, and I never see any one go for it I basically just end up running like a little girl until I can eek out some kind of kd.

[HolyBadSanta]

BRP lv3 help a lot in this fight, as it can be connected after a f.S CH and lead to a Dustloop and get even Full Dustloop if you started it for the default position of start of the round. As a Stand alone it s pretty effective against 2D and 2HS mashers. SF Lv2 is also a great tool in this fight. It reminds me a lot the JO matchup, since his pokes puts you in trouble, the best you can do is get Lv3 and run away from him, and wait for a mistake leading to a CH to make him pay.

[reaVer]

Don't jump or move towards Slayer unless he's coming for you. Anything else is pretty much a fool's errant. Most Slayer players like to sit back and wait for OS to make a move, that way Slayer can use his range advantage best. So if you don't move towards him, he'll have to close the gap himself resulting in some sort of 'rushdown' which is what OS is good at dealing with. Also, Slayer's 2H has more range than your 5S(f) so I suggest using Ri instead. Your preferred level will always be level 3 because it does a lot of damage and is very easy to obtain against Slayers, especially if they want you to come for them. Euhm, his j.H air... I played Slayer myself for a bit, the only reason you'd try to land that one is because you're fishing for a CH. On normal hit or guard its very easy to get thrown out of your followup. Doing j.H very late makes you very prone to AAs(more so than with OS's version). I think it depends a lot on what moment you catch him and what his timing is. If you spot his jump early you can just GB and if he pushed a button, he eats it for CH which means dustloop for you, your own 5H should also work well at that point. If you spot his jump later or are unable to respond to it quickly for some reason, and he's j.Hing early you'll have to either guard or SV it; after guarding you usually get a free throw. If you're late and he does late j.H you might be able to use 5S-H into sj combo or iad combo, but I'm not sure about that. "SF Lv2 is also a great tool in this fight." l2SF is a great tool in any fight:P JO matchup isn't anything like the Slayer matchup. The dominant difference is that Johnny has a spacing distance where he can freely attack OS, while OS isn't able to even reach him(this includes his SV). There's little reason for Johnny to actually get closer and get into OS's range since most of his stuff works from outside that range anyways. Slayer on the other hand actually does have to cross a line where OS can immediately attack him.

[LM_Akira]

Something minor I forgot to post about this matchup months ago.

Slayer's 5K, at max range, can simultaneously whiff and go over your 2S but also hit you.

I hate Slayer's 5K.

Generally I find you have to think carefully about almost any button press you make in this match, especially at mid/close range. In some respects it's similar to playing Moroha mode ABA.

[Sesshyru]

Something minor I forgot...

Nothing this guy does is minor

I don't like his stomp.. The range lies ...

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

forward dash cancel > bite > bbu... hurt like hell (>_>)

Just wanted to mention that this is shakeable.

[Coren]

What can you do when you're stuck at the tip of slayer's 5K range? Most of my pokes that reach at that range are getting stuffed, and attempts to IAD or jump in are getting met with a 5P or 2S to stuff them.

Also, when you work Slayer into the corner, how do you stop reversal forward teleports to keep him in the corner? I can punish them most of the time it's just not the optimal corner damage I would hope for instead of a basic BnB midscreen.

[AMB Bakery]

If I were you, I would never IAD at Slayer. He pretty much gets free CH anything off that especially 6P. As for being in his 5K range, you can try walking back a bit and doing rock-it, but that's risky. You could also try getting a bit closer and throwing. Honestly, there's nothing that should keep you "stuck" at that range unless you're in the corner. If you think Slayer is going to forward dash out of the corner (though I usually see reversal backdash more often), you could try doing a spaced gunblaze or doing late back-throw.

[reaVer]

What can you do when you're stuck at the tip of slayer's 5K range? Most of my pokes that reach at that range are getting stuffed, and attempts to IAD or jump in are getting met with a 5P or 2S to stuff them.

Also, when you work Slayer into the corner, how do you stop reversal forward teleports to keep him in the corner? I can punish them most of the time it's just not the optimal corner damage I would hope for instead of a basic BnB midscreen.

Ok, what you would normally do when just outside 5K range and Slayer is trying to enforce that range is simply jump or IAD at him. If he's baiting that, then you bait him back with a neutral jump or you use Ri to delay enough to hit Slayer in between 5Ks. Mind you that whatever he hits you with, he gets 50% off of. You on the other hand have only a few of those moves, this matchup in contrast to many others demand you to use high risk/high reward moves (such as gun blaze, fafnir, etc) and you basically have to play with your balls on the table. Every time you guess wrong, Slayer will punish you with high damage and you have to make sure that everytime he guesses wrong, he's eating high damage.

So in short, don't listen to AMB Bakery :p

[AMB Bakery]

Slayer doesn't always get 50% or more, especially if he's playing a non-japanese player who is probably doing sub-optimal combos or is trying to do optimal combos and dropping them. Slayer gets rewarded when he has meter, which he'll usually have a lot of, but your confirming skills have to be pretty high to capitalize off Slayer's weaker normals (6K, 5K, 2P, c.S/f.S, etc) on ground hit and not in the corner. You also don't have to always be doing ballsy moves, you just have to play an insanely patient neutral game. Bear in mind that Slayer has 2H and 6P which will destroy you if you rush in too hastily (bear in mind, 6P beats the first hit of any level of rock-it clean). Running in and blocking isn't the worst thing to do, especially if you think they're going to do something high-risk high-reward like that. It's not like Slayer can lock you down after having you block one normal or poke. Also, try to get free charge whenever you can if they're not going in on you.

Honestly it depends on who you're playing, but the chances are you're either playing netplay scrubs or a friend that lives close to you. Just try your best to figure out their tendencies quickly and adjust.

Whenever I was having dinner with CrimsonDisaster and a bunch of other Austin peeps, he told me this in regards to HOS: "The better you are at fighting games, the better you will be at playing Order-Sol." Take that as you will, I took it as "fundamentals are really important to playing Order-Sol" but I think it's simple enough that you could take any message from it.