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ryofoong

Elizabeth Oki/Setups/Resets/Gimmicks

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TD Mentioned making this thread and I thought it was a really good idea. I mean it really doesn't go into the whole "combo" thread and neither does it go under the general elizabeth thread that well. Seeing as how Elizabeth does require getting into your opponent's mind and knowing how you keep them away from you, I'd say this warrants it's own thread. Delete this thread if it doesn't fall under the proper postings for this forum and all that.

Now to the gimmicks!

Stuff I have found:

- If the enemy is in your combo and you're about to end it in the corner. Instead of doing the hard knockdown with a b.Bufu x2 > J.C you can attempt to end with a SB.Zio > 5C > J.D really quickly. Since a lot a people attempt to just tech whenever they're in a combo, this will catch most people. You can then wait for the wall bounce into 5B > 5C > 2C > B.Bufu > SB.Agi > 5B to bring them back into the corner.

- When you catch someone with your 5C pressure we all know you can cancel after the first hit into a 5D. However if you delay it right when thanatos does the dash forward of the 2nd hit of the 5C you can cancel right in front of the opponent into a 5D. Making it look like thanatos was about to hit them and making most people reactively wait for the 2nd hit before getting grabbed. This obviously doesn't work well against people who mash 5A or 2A against thanatos.

- Since a lot of people try to mash 2A against 5C a good followup is 2C because it has super armor. Everybody knows this, but just putting it out there for people who might be newer.

- You can use Elizabeth's Mind charge as a semi invincible super into Ghastly Wail for free punishes on some characters. Namely Mitsuru.

Go people! Discuss! If you want I will update this thread with whatever is written. or we can leave it as a thread for people to discuss resets, whatever.

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After Shuffle Time, I like to do SB.Agi, and when my opponent gets close to me, I'll do something like 2A x 3 then an All-Out-Attack if they're still blocking low. If I'm repeating this, I'll do something like 5B > Sweep > stuff instead.

I'm sure this is kinda common knowledge, but if you get your opponent in the corner, you can pressure them with 5C x2, and if you think they'll punish the second 5C, you can catch with them a 2C and combo for massive damage.

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Just take note that the non-SB versions of Agi are still useful when you score knockdowns. By ending a combo early and throwing regular agi you get massive frame advantage to try whatever mix-up you have in mind. Just take note that it might be damn near impossible to do seamlessly, so against mashers it could be risking a primer.

Tricky j.D reset in the corner: Follow SB.Zio with 5c(2) as an ender and anyone holding tech will get caught by the j.D follow-up for another full combo. Evidence: http://ogarabu.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-95.html @ 4:21

Also during the match at 21:00, 5c(2)ing under a fullscreen bufu leaves thanatos on the other side of the enemy

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Just take note that the non-SB versions of Agi are still useful when you score knockdowns. By ending a combo early and throwing regular agi you get massive frame advantage to try whatever mix-up you have in mind. Just take note that it might be damn near impossible to do seamlessly, so against mashers it could be risking a primer.

Tricky j.D reset in the corner: Follow SB.Zio with 5c(2) as an ender and anyone holding tech will get caught by the j.D follow-up for another full combo. Evidence: http://ogarabu.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-95.html @ 4:21

That's the first bulletpoint in my first post :(

But has anyone really tested this a lot? Does it work at any time to cancel you combo or does is specifically need to be put at the end in order to allow for the opponent to air tech? The dummy won't air tech it so I have to test it with the dummy record feature and that's just long annoying to do testing CH and FC and Normal hits and different combo lengths.

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Haha sorry didn't see that, was just making my post a wall on info on it. I'm fairly certain it has to be at the end of a combo because otherwise hitsun proration is such that they aren't able to tech until they hit the ground. After a few garus and zios the proration becomes high enough that they are given access to the air tech since the hitstun has decayed so much.

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That Elizabeth player in the FT10 video was doing something really interesting, he was ending combos and make them recover into 2C to make them block, and then when they land he would make Mitsuru guess between 5C or 5D, really cool setup.

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Good stuff, never figured that Elizabeth would have strong and viable resets.

Hopefully we can compile this into a more easy to read format when we figure out more stuff.

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her post ex lazor mixup game is actually really scary, cuz most of the chars can only dp or command hop out and thanatos eats the dp for you alot of the time if youre at 5d range and if they guessed wrong and you didnt go straight for a 5d then they eat either 5c 2c or 5b

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When pressuring opponents with thanatos you can end your pressure in J.D to catch jump outs, this is especially useful for characters that don't have an r-action like mitsuru or yu (ones that actually act like DPs) and have been taught to respect 5C>2C so they aren't mashing 5/2A.

Liz's R-action at 150SP will confuse opponents, most opponents will either focus on blocking on use an R-action post-confuse, depending on the opponent I will either run up > throw or try to bait a reversal.

I'm not sure if this was an online only thing/bad timing but [at fullscreen] j.c knockdown > SB.agi has been blown up by yu's IK. He has massive amount of startup invulnerability and the move connected before I could block/jump out.

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They don't have to respect 5C>2C IMO, you can easily hold up and avoid the mixup completely.

What I meant by respecting 5C>2C is they aren't mashing out of 5C since 2C has super armor. By doing 5C/2C > J.D thanatos will grab people trying to hold up.

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A new one has been made, and although it is still in its developing stages it should be completely fine by tomorrow.

Locking this thread.

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