[P4A] Elizabeth Tricks and Gimmicks Compilation (Updated 3/11/13)

[UmaiCakes]

you can do all of this from fear command throw? wow... what's the damage?

Not that command throw lol, FC 5B

FC 5D you can only do 2 D.Garu loops

[geobuster]

Liz's sweep has alot of active frames, this means it can stuff run-ins and some rush attacks from other characters.

Also if you meaty sweep on the opponent's tech so that it hits on last few frames, you can link into 5A or 2A and get a full combo (you may need to dash between attacks if you're far away).

I tested this set-up and I believe it's safe against most character's DPs with the exceptions of Naoto, Yosuke, Teddie and Kanji's. Against these characters, you can do the sweep slightly early so that it wiffs in order to bait the DP.

If the opponent blocks or instant blocks the sweep Liz will have a good amount of frame advantage so that she can continue pressure. After the opponent have been conditioned to always be blocking low on wake-up and you're feeling a bit gutsy, you may like to throw out an overhead attack to really mess with them.

One last note, I haven't tested this against any quick reversal supers. Bare this in mind if you plan on trying this in a live match.

[GaoGaoGao]

A corner setup:

xx 5C, 2C, 214B, 2C, 236AB, mind charge, 5A, ghastly wail. The idea behind this is that it takes 3 frames for someone to jump and after the SB Zio wall splat into 5A, if they tech they have to land then jump allowing you to time ghastly wail to grab within those 3 frames. I havnt tested it that much, so not sure if its actually possible to time ghastly wail to hit in those 3 frames, but its just an idea I had. This kills every character except Kanji because you get that nice 6.3K ghastly wail.

Edit: I set the AI to jump and tried it out. I was able to time ghastly wail after the 5A to grab within the 3 frame pretty easily. If you set the AI to jump they will jump as soon as they get the chance to right? I dont really have someone to help me test things lol.

Edit2: Nvm, I forgot they get paralyzed lol. I have no idea what the frames are for hopping so I dont even know if this is a legit setup anymore.

[Elochai]

As a variation of the Mahamon setup in the corner:

Stuff > 2C > 214B > 214CD > Mahamon. 5CD (or 4CD, depending on if you're already facing the corner or not) > 5C(2) > 2C > 236AB > 5C(2) > 2C > 214B > 44 214CD.

The grab is untechable, so in theory, if they're not expecting the grab and they do not have a burst, this is game for you.

[Synthesis]

As a variation of the Mahamon setup in the corner:

Stuff > 2C > 214B > 214CD > Mahamon. 5CD (or 4CD, depending on if you're already facing the corner or not) > 5C(2) > 2C > 236AB > 5C(2) > 2C > 214B > 44 214CD.

The grab is untechable, so in theory, if they're not expecting the grab and they do not have a burst, this is game for you.

Yeah, that's the issue. Big thing is they see this huge threat on the ground and you're right next to them with slightly slower than average normals. They're probably going to do everything in their power to get out. If you think they'll be patient little buggers (I love conditioning) then go ahead and throw. I'll have to try this out. xD If I'm not the one in the corner, though, I think IABD j.B would be the optimal oki choice to bait certain reversals (Kanji/Mitsuru/Yosuke etc...) and from there go into a 50/50 or better (2A/5D/5CD/AOA)

Anyone else notice how on certain moves you can mash F-Action to beat them from 5A? I'll list what I've been able to do it against on reaction.

Labrys' F-Action, Rhino super (I don't know what it is), Kanji F-Action, Mitsuru Bufula (I think C-Version)

I've had it where 5A whiffs because of the super startup, but I was able to F-Action through it for the invincibility. Had a Labrys player get PISSED that she couldn't OMC her super because it whiffed.

[Eshi]

I don't think this has been mentioned yet, and it reeeally needs to be because it's a GREAT trick.

While comboing an opponent in the corner, end whatever combo with 5C > 2C > C Maragidyne or just 2C > C Maragidyne such that they have to tech on the ground. Thanatos immediately starts Maragidyne after 2C recovers which then comes out a few frames after the opponent wakes up.

This setup shuts down a TON of options. If they try to poke or F-Action on wake-up, Thanatos will probably get broken but Maragidyne will still come out for a beefy fatal counter combo. If they try to roll out, Elizabeth has already recovered and can just fatal throw them back into the corner. If they don't emergency tech, the combo resets as Maragidyne picks them up. The only reliable option is to block, but they're still forced to block for 2 seconds giving time for liz to mix them up or perfect her positioning. It's extremely strong.

[Diveman]

Yeah, damosu does that all the time in the corner, I think we talked about that at some point

[Eshi]

Another thing I want to add (I think it's appropriate for here). Liz has a useful input option select to help her hit confirm 2C. After pretty much every 2C while she has 50 meter, input 2C > 214B > OMC > 5C. If the opponent tries to chicken block, 2C > 214B will combo as normal and you can react with a hit confirm. If the opponent blocks 2C, then Liz gets OMC > 5C frame trap instead.

Also, she can do this meterless with a meaty 2C. If she does a fullscreen combo ending with 2C > 214B > 2C > 5C > 2C, she can buffer 2C again during their emergency tech. Input 214B > delay > 5C. If they don't block it then you get a normal hit confirm into whatever, but on block the 2C is extremely meaty so they'll get frame trapped by 5C.

EDIT: spamming moar elizabeth shit!

If Liz gets to do a very close range block string (like after a blocked SP Maragidyne), do 5AA > 9 > air turn > 6 (IAD) > jA. It's a bit tricky to time and the hit confirm is tight, but this is a very sneaky cross-up that's also safe against cross-up vulnerable F-Actions (EG: Yu, Akihiko, Naoto and more).

If you knock someone down from the air with jB and end up close to them, you can do a meaty 5D. This will grap on wake-up, but it also pushes the opponent's body away from Liz, so if Mitsuru/Yu/Akihiko/etc. use an F-Action the persona will eat it while Elizabeth is safe and free to punish with 5C for 4k damage. :3

[XVII]

Any gimmicks with paralysis?

[Kiba]

Yeah, damosu does that all the time in the corner, I think we talked about that at some point

...it's in the first post....

[Eshi]

...it's in the first post....

ah, I tried to CTRL+F it to see if it was already there but didn't get it because it's referred to as C.Agi. It does not actually require any conditioning unless you're specifically doing the jD/2C 50-50 ender to make people want to air tech. It's easy to end a true combo with 2C to get the same guaranteed okizeme.

Another trick I didn't see in here: while an opponent is under the Fear status, throws are automatically treated as counter throws which means they can't be teched. At all. So if you go for a reset - say after 214B > 5A, or even an AOA OMC, to get them standing - and then go for throw, jump and F-Action are their only escape options.

[Synthesis]

ah, I tried to CTRL+F it to see if it was already there but didn't get it because it's referred to as C.Agi. It does not actually require any conditioning unless you're specifically doing the jD/2C 50-50 ender to make people want to air tech. It's easy to end a true combo with 2C to get the same guaranteed okizeme.

Another trick I didn't see in here: while an opponent is under the Fear status, throws are automatically treated as counter throws which means they can't be teched. At all. So if you go for a reset - say after 214B > 5A, or even an AOA OMC, to get them standing - and then go for throw, jump and F-Action are their only escape options.

I do this on occasion in the corner. For instance xxx 214B 2D dash up 5A throw or what have you. This is matchup specific, though. And I don't have a followup that will make it 100% safe against DPs or anything, so I don't know how viable it would be against people who know the matchup.

[TheArm05]

It is true that when you have someone Feared and Paralyzed you can put them in an extremely bad guessing situation by standing right next to them.

Throw beats everything except hop or an invincible reversal. Blocking beats their DP. 2B/5A beats hops. Once your opponent knows about the matchup they will almost always mash DP or hop because the reward for a FC throw is HUGE.

For a lot of matchups the RPS isn't really worth it when you can just back up and apply safe pressure but for other matchups I force this scenario as much as possible. Most notably I do this in the Mitsuru matchup as safe pressure is extremely hard to apply to her. This technique takes away the tools that make that matchup stupid (5A, Ex Droit) and forces her to use normal options and play your game.

[Eshi]

I like the idea of using the RPS mix-up on Mitsuru. Corner pressure isn't as good because that stupid fucking EX Droit will beat everything without perfect spacing. Dumb bitch -.-

There's a funny gimmick from AOA starter - if you AOA twice in a combo, the opponent will instantly recover after the first All-Out Rush hit. So if you OMC it, instantly throwing will connect. Will only work once against good players... but hey, it'll work once :D

[TD]

paralysis on mitsuru makes predicting droits very slightly harder, but is it worth it? hell. yes. paralysis is probably liz's best offensive stat option right above fear. it makes her mixups safer and very dangerous. with 25 heat l always end my combo with ex zio on everyone. it's too good.

fuck mitsuru.

lastly, @ the aoa gimmick, you can always 2b as a throw feint for 5k damage...?

[Diveman]

What's RPS?

also yeah, ex zio ender is too good. Fear + Paralysis in the corner is almost ggs, and the mixup is so much in your favor, specially if you stand at a certain distance where if they DP it will either whiff or hit Thanatos instead (matchup dependant but its still hella gay).

[TD]

rock paper scissors. just like in the game, you choose one option (rock) that will be another (scissors) but not the other (paper), putting you in a guessing game that doesn't end well for the foe should they choose wrong.

[PANDEMlC]

Has anyone been using the IK setups after sb agi?

[TD]

hell no. they're gimmicky as fuck.

l just dia after sb agi, or sb zio replaces sb agi.

[Eshi]

I'm inclined to learn the setups, like 90% of netplayers don't block low after EX maragidyne for some bizarre reason so it would be easy to land >_>

[TD]

I'm inclined to learn the setups, like 90% of netplayers mash dp after EX maragidyne for some bizarre reason so it would be easy to land >_>

fixed.

[pulsr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e91QWaiTQ5E&list=UULXJMzL--7dDtgYa5onheCw&index=1&feature=plcp just do it.

[Kiba]

Yea that's the trick TD mentioned a while back, but it's nice to have visual aid.

Cool.

[Synthesis]

So, been talking to Bellreisa about some of his combos and setups etc....

Found out 5C j.D catches people holding 7 against 5C. Useful against chicken blockers.

[TD]

i'll contribute some things.

tricks

fullscreen persona positioning: 5c moves thanatos forward alot. 2c moves him forward slightly. j.c will keep him in his position and so will 2c. with a little conditioning you can keep thanatos out for awhile, allowing you to do mixup from afar and stop approaches.

chrisG's b zio spam: after using this several times l get what it's for. after persona break or paralysis on some characters, b zio is constantly used to distract the foe from an incoming d agi. if they get hit, keep doing it.

gimmicks

(after sb garu (9-2) d garu (2) ) 5d/bufu: garu causes a knockdown, and your foe is most likely expecting you to continue the combo.

5aaa(1) shuffle time: one time use pretty much, the whirlwind of cards serves as a visual distraction and is a free status effect on hit. might go well with a throw feint setup. also, between 5aa and 5aaa is a frametrap.