[P4A] Elizabeth Tricks and Gimmicks Compilation (Updated 3/11/13)

[Diveman]

I actually use meaty B.Zio eachtime I hit my opps with Shuffle time (lovers) to buy more time.

[TD]

great, because so do l. the great thing about b zio is the startup time, and recovery being decently safe. it can easily be bluffed as a d agi: enjoy your +150 (l think more!?) and that's like 4 seconds of liz time after factoring in that heap of a startup.

sadly her mixup options are rather limited even fullscreen, some characters can punish everything she does and she doesnt get good damage from conditioning.

[Elochai]

some characters can punish everything she does and she doesnt get good damage from conditioning.

Did someone say Coup Droit?

[TD]

mitsuru actually cannot do anything fullscreen against zio oki except delay tech. thank the heavens ex droit doesn't have projectile invul. l'd seriously be inclined to shoot the bitch then.

[FR05tB1t3 BOB]

great, because so do l. the great thing about b zio is the startup time, and recovery being decently safe. it can easily be bluffed as a d agi: enjoy your +150 (l think more!?) and that's like 4 seconds of liz time after factoring in that heap of a startup.

sadly her mixup options are rather limited even fullscreen, some characters can punish everything she does and she doesnt get good damage from conditioning.

what do u mean by bluffing and doing a d agi?

[Synthesis]

what do u mean by bluffing and doing a d agi?

B.Zio has a very large start up before it actually fires. If you use B.Zio full screen as a meaty for oki, your opponent will start blocking it instead of trying to super jump out to get in (conditioning!). With this, instead of B.Zio, you could use D.Agi, which also has a long start up and most opponents aren't looking at Liz's card positioning to determine which move she's performing. If you do D.Agi but your opponent is respecting a non-existent B.Zio, you get free oki and D.Agi pulls them in and you get to mix them up for free.

What are our mix up options, though? I can only RPS with Thanatos so much before people just get out for free by not being asleep, and I don't want to waste Persona cards. What mix up involving normals (without meter) can I perform? I wish she could airdash after double jumping. 2B IAD air turn j.B would be hot.

Perhaps.... 2B dj.AC (is j.C falling on block safe?) I need to experiment more, but most of her pressure options are easily mashed out of unless I use Thanatos.

Regardless, picking up Mitsuru to deal with Teddie. Screw that noise.

EDIT: are we including the AoA oki setup? Is it worth learning? Has anyone performed testing? Seems Mitsuru can do the same setup.

[TD]

mixup is rather non-existent synthesis... you really cannot find that in liz. at most you're getting that slow-ass aoa (honestly when the fuck will you ever hit with this offline), 2a/sweep for jump startup punishing, 5d for blockers, frametraps etc. high/low is very bad, think mu.

personally, l use blockstrings that allow me to loop my pressure so l can stall for meter. at low meter i'll go into 5aaa a bufu j.b c garu for good meter gain + time (for more meter gain, i'm greedy). with lots of heat most combo starters ends with a setup of your choice. strong setups count as mixup l suppose?

[Synthesis]

mixup is rather non-existent synthesis... you really cannot find that in liz. at most you're getting that slow-ass aoa (honestly when the fuck will you ever hit with this offline), 2a/sweep for jump startup punishing, 5d for blockers, frametraps etc. high/low is very bad, think mu.

personally, l use blockstrings that allow me to loop my pressure so l can stall for meter. at low meter i'll go into 5aaa a bufu j.b c garu for good meter gain + time (for more meter gain, i'm greedy). with lots of heat most combo starters ends with a setup of your choice. strong setups count as mixup l suppose?

Mu had high lows, granted she had to be respected first but what I'm looking for is safe pressure, really. Something I can do that will get my opponent to sit still.

What options do we have for people doing things on wakeup? How do we stop jump outs during pressure? I've noticed a lot that people can jump after 5C(2) and do a jumping attack in response to our jump to beat the j.D. What do we do for pressure?

[TD]

new mixup thing that l totally didn't steal. no really... genuine lab time here.

need - 50+ heat (more depending on setup and combo route). fear recommended.

pressure - c garu(6, cross over the foe) OMC j.44 j.a ch.

normal combo from here is j.a d.garu loop x 3 2a 5b 5c 2c b bufu w/e from here. this does 4.9k with fear.

without fear the combo and the damage become harder and worse. you're looking at j.a dash 5aaa a bufu stuff, max.

anyway, c garu is gapless from all her normals, so this is legit. get creative. other things that might work are c garu (6) land 2a/throw, j.44 d.garu, j.b for pressure, and perhaps a c garu right on top of their heads for an ambiguous left/right mixup.

(ps - dunno if j.a sb garu links, that'd boost the non ch damage a bit.)

[Elochai]

Not sure if this counts as a "trick", but you can use Mind Charge to safely get cards back.

[Synthesis]

Super fun stuff I've been working with. After a combo midscreen into 214B 214B j.C, I've come up with a 50/50 mix-up.

214B 214B j.C land 5D or 214B 214B j.C land EX.Bufu (air unblockable)

Tech or no tech, the 5D will catch people staying on the ground. The EX.Bufu catches teching > jump. You can also use A.Bufu or B.Bufu depending on the tech timing to catch jumps, although this isn't an issue at all. Just use EX.Bufu or A.Bufu if you don't have 25 meter to follow up with EX.Agi for a combo. Off 214A, you get j.C into the same setup, so don't feel bad about using it without the meter. And for Naoto, Teddie, Yosuke who might try to F-Action to get out of this mixup, you can always just opt for the unblockable 2D to inflict poison full screen while you zone.

Free damage is free damage.

[Eshi]

a blocked jC pushes the opponent back in the direction that Elizabeth is facing. Midscreen she can do cross-up jC > D Magarudyne; if they block the jC, they get pushed to the other side and crossed up again by magarudyne. Doesn't work if the opponent gets hit by the jC.

However, against a cornered opponent she can do air turn jC > D Magarudyne to suck them out of the corner and then cross up for 6k. :D

[TD]

@elochai, not sure if that counts as a trick lol. actually any special/5d will cancel cards.

@synthesis, that's a pretty known mixup by now fullscreen. in fact, it's her only 'mixup' that isnt totally ghetto conditioning. you highlighted the options they beat though which is a helpful refresher.

l usually just do b.bufu instead of sb.bufu on wakeup, even with the slower startup it does just as well the job. sb.bufu seems useless as a whole, at least imo unless i'm missing something.

@eshi, seems neat. i'll have to try that out.

[Synthesis]

@elochai, not sure if that counts as a trick lol. actually any special/5d will cancel cards.

@synthesis, that's a pretty known mixup by now fullscreen. in fact, it's her only 'mixup' that isnt totally ghetto conditioning. you highlighted the options they beat though which is a helpful refresher.

l usually just do b.bufu instead of sb.bufu on wakeup, even with the slower startup it does just as well the job. sb.bufu seems useless as a whole, at least imo unless i'm missing something.

@eshi, seems neat. i'll have to try that out.

I couldn't get B.Bufu to freeze the opponent, so I just used the SB version to force freeze. And sorry about this information. xD I hadn't seen it posted anywhere, and I haven't seen any Elizabeth use it in a match. I was just using the 5D version, but people started jumping it, so I went into the lab.

Eshi: tried your setup. It's hard to force them to respect the intial jump, but I'm thinking something along the lines of 5AA IAD turn/no-turn j.C 236D mixup. It's a 50/50 crossup. The person I was playing just mashed 2B/DP if I went to the air, though, so I tried baiting with 5AA IABD j.B

[TD]

I couldn't get B.Bufu to freeze the opponent, so I just used the SB version to force freeze.

l don't understand what you mean. can you clarify, please?

[Synthesis]

l don't understand what you mean. can you clarify, please?

B.Bufu was hitting them, but because of the long startup, they were too high in the air and so the sword would hit, but the ice would whiff. A.Bufu freezes, but I can't get a full combo off it. SB.Bufu has the speed of A.Bufu with the freeze of B, so I used that to get them to get hit AND frozen, so I can follow up with SB.Agi for the combo.

[Eshi]

I've noticed that 10-20% of the time I go for air turn jD to extend the grab range, I accidentally gold burst and look like a fool. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem. A quick fix for this is to input 7AB4 first to get an IAD backwards, which can cancel almost immediately into jD to lose little range and the backwards momentum will make it safer on whiff.

[Kiba]

Got that in thanks.

[Elochai]

I think we've all been sleeping on 214CD > 5A (force opponent tech mid-air) > reset into b.Bufu. Too good.

[Diveman]

I think 5A > 2B reset is a bit less risky, and you get a better combo on hit.

[Elochai]

I honestly had not thought about using 5A > 2B resets anywhere outside of the corner.

[UmaiCakes]

5B (slight pause) 2B also works pretty well, if you do a long enough combo

Like something into B.Bufu 2C 5CC 2C SB.Zio 5B, if holding tech they'll tech immediately after 5B and get hit by delayed 2B...and it looks less like a reset than 5A 2B/B.Bufu =p

[Elochai]

In regards to the tried and true sb.Zio > 5C > j.D reset, there's also another way to do this. If you don't have the meter, you can do b.bufu > 5C > j.D reset.

Something like 5D > j.B > j.A > j.C > 2A > 5B > 5C (2) > 2C > 214B > delay 5C > j.D reset

[geobuster]

I found something interesting with 2C's damage buff (to 5C, j.C, and 214214C/D)

Not only does it apply on hit, but also on block and invul.

This means that if you drop a combo during 5C > 2C, you can use 214214C as a frame trap against an opponent mashing 5A/2A to break Thanatos and get 4.2k (6.3k if feared) regardless of if 5C consumed a previous 2C buff, since it get reapplied when they tech inside 2C (no need for it to hit or get blocked!).

This also works well with a meaty 2C at full screen, though the timing is harder since 214214C might whiff on block stun or 214214D might leave them enough frames to hit Thanatos if the set-up wasn't perfect (last frames of 2C).

I tested this against Akihiko set to mash 2A after blocking (5 frame normal)

[Eshi]

Against a person blocking near the corner, do 236AB OMC > run up AOA. SB Zio stays active super long and covers almost the whole startup animation of AOA, then ends just before AOA connects. No one sees this coming the first time!