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BBCP Story Thread [Old]

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Oh my GOD. I finally understand something that has been bugging me for a while. This franchise's story is confusing as hell if you haven't noticed already.

I noticed that the seeds for Hakumen's character and his regret for Tsubaki were planted in Calamity Trigger, not Continuum Shift.

To understand this, you must first understand a couple of concepts that were present in CT (they were present in CS too, but more often in CT)

1.) The characters can recall events from other timelines at certain points but they don't understand/comprehend it. It happens to Ragna and Jin mostly but happens to other characters as well. Usually, when it happens, the screen goes monochrome, something mysterious happens, then everything returns to normal and the character goes "WHuT JUST HAPPENED". This happened a LOT in calamity trigger, but also happens sometines in continuum shift but nowhere near as often as CT.

2.) In the original timeline, Tsubaki was dressed like Noel. The standard NOL Attire. (pictured above in that guy's post)

3.) In Calamity Trigger's Jin storymode, you are playing as the Jin that ultimately becomes Hakumen. NOT the Jin you see in Continuum Shift! The only exception to this, as far as I know, is the True Ending, which is the exact same Jin you see in CS I believe. I think it was done like this to build up to the "omg jin is hakumen!!" plot twist.

Okay, we got that much.

Now I finally understand just what's going on in THIS scene of Calamity Trigger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSPSZdKMogo#t=2m45s (Notice the Shadow standing in front of him where Noel used to be and how it doesn't have a face, only the uniform)

When Jin defeats Noel, he was recalling/remembering Tsubaki, and this regret becomes a large part of Hakumen's character in CS. It's funny how it took me this long just to get it.

Note: The only hole in this theory, though, is that it would mean Noel would have to have been present in not one, but two timelines in CT. I don't think this is a problem as I think Noel exists in multiple timelines but i'm not 100% sure. Unless some creepy shit happened and it turned out that Jin was fighting Tsubaki that entire time. That would be trippy.

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The Jin in CT is not the Jin that becomes Hakumen, because the Jin that becomes Hakumen doesn't have to deal with Noel, she dies all the damn time in other timelines.

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The Jin in CT is not the Jin that becomes Hakumen, because the Jin that becomes Hakumen doesn't have to deal with Noel.

The Jin in CT is clearly the same Jin that becomes Hakumen, the true ending of that story has Jin jumping into the caludron after Ragna then Rachel warps him out and makes him Hakumen. The story's fricken title is "False Hero". I think that's enough evidence he's the Jin that becomes Hakumen.

As you mentioned, Noel is the only hitch. However, let's keep in mind that Rachel was trying to protect Noel in Calamity Trigger, Jin clearly hated Noel, and that Rachel is the one who made Jin Hakumen, yes? I wouldn't be surprised if Rachel stripped his memory of Noel when he became Hakumen to "protect" Noel and guide Hakumen towards stopping Terumi or something like that.

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You're like 2 years late though.

2.) In the original timeline, Tsubaki was dressed like Noel. The standard NOL Attire. (pictured above in that guy's post)

Yes, because she was part of his squadron and his secretary. Not part of the Wings of Justice.

3.) In Calamity Trigger's Jin storymode, you are playing as the Jin that ultimately becomes Hakumen. NOT the Jin you see in Continuum Shift! The only exception to this, as far as I know, is the True Ending, which is the exact same Jin you see in CS I believe. I think it was done like this to build up to the "omg jin is hakumen!!" plot twist.

You're playing A Jin that becomes Hakumen, but not the Hakumen we see and play as in CS. CS Hakumen (and Hakumen in Noel's CT arcade mode) is basically like "who's this chick?" to Noel. This is because she never made it to the Academy in his timeline. Tsubaki played her role. CT True End got retconned by CSE Calamity Trigger Reconstruction. The Jin we see in CS is the same Jin in CTR, and no more.

I thought that he was simply recalling Saya/Nu/Noel/conglomerate but I dunno. It shows Noel's sprite though, not Tsubaki's. I don't think he fought her anyway.

Noel has existed in many timelines, but CS Hakumen's was not one of them.

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It shows Noel's sprite though, not Tsubaki's. I don't think he fought her anyway.

It shows only Noel's uniform, NOT her face. That's a pretty telling sign it's Tsubaki if the shadow is only the uniform, and since we already established that characters can recall events of other timelines, it's very much possible he is remembering the original timeline. Please re-watch the scene I posted, the scene makes a lot more sense now that you look back at the game now.

And I don't think Hakumen existed in multiple timelines in CT. I was pretty sure that, since Rachel pulled one of the Jin's from his respective timeline, Hakumen was made "outside of" the timeloop, in observer land or whatever they're calling it. The only time Hakumen exists in multiple timelines is in Continuum Shift was because of the nature of the Continuum Shift. (Something, might I add, that Hakumen himself realizes when he cuts apart time when he fights Arakune)

All in all, i'm pretty 100% damn sure Rachel made Hakumen ONCE, and only ONCE. Anything else is a result of the continuum shift.

btw, one last thing, I still think it's quite possible that Rachel removed Jin's memories of Noel when he became Hakumen as a way of "protecting" Noel. It's pretty clear that's what she's been doing in CT and bits of CS. It wouldn't be the first time someone played with Jin's memories (lolzama)

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It shows only Noel's uniform, NOT her face. That's a pretty telling sign it's Tsubaki if the shadow is only the uniform. Please re-watch the scene I posted, the scene makes a lot more sense now that you look back at the game now.

And I don't think Hakumen existed in multiple timelines in CT. I was pretty sure that, since Rachel pulled one of the Jin's from his respective timeline, Hakumen was made "outside of" the timeloop, in observer land or whatever they're calling it. The only time Hakumen exists in multiple timelines is in Continuum Shift was because of the nature of the Continuum Shift.

All in all, i'm pretty 100% damn sure Rachel made Hakumen ONCE, and only ONCE. Anything else is a result of the continuum shift.

You can plainly see her hair... I mean yeah he could. I don't really care either way.

Multiple timelines? What? Of course he exists in multiple timelines. You're confusing continuum shift (which only happens after the cycle is broken) with the events of CT. Every loop is a parallel universe that is also simultaneously an alternate timeline. Every loop Jin falls into the Cauldron, accepts Rachel's offer of becoming a real hero (or possibly Clavis's if Phase Shift 2 is to go by), and is reborn as Hakumen. He is referred to as a false hero even in CS. Also, the Hakumen we see is pretty blatantly the Hakumen from Wheel of Fortune or a similar time... Hakumen isn't like Rachel, who is the same unchanging person in every timeline. What exactly is the point of Rachel erasing his memories? She seems as surprised as he is to learn that he doesn't know Noel. The guy is actually nicer to her than Jin will ever be even.

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Huh, for some reason I thought I remembered Rachel's house existing outside of the timeloop, which is why Rachel has to summon people to her house and why her house seemingly still exists in Ikaruga. I was pretty sure that since Rachel was an observer, she didn't play a part in any timeloop, she just watched. Maybe i'm wrong there.

And do you have a source to Rachel being surprised about Hakumen not knowing Noel? I don't remember that ever happening.

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Rachel does play parts in the cycles, but they must be minor or static ones (such as being the one to unseal the Azure Grimoire for Ragna). I dunno what relevance her mansion has with anything.

It happens sometime in her Continuum Shift story, after Hakumen meets her in the Hanging Gardens. It's actually sort of contradicted by Makoto's story, but I don't think anybody was paying attention to that.

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Wait,if this is the original timeline,then how can kagutsuchi still exist in this timeline?

I mean,the original timeline doesn't have the six heroes to fight the black beast,then how can mankind stand to fight the black beast and how can Ragna got the BlazBlue,the jacket,sword and his title in the first place?

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Ragna's jacket and sword have no place of origin due to him going back in time with Nu, and losing his memories. After he died as "Bloodedge", he'd then go on to inherit them, and so on and so forth for every loop.

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Wait,if this is the original timeline,then how can kagutsuchi still exist in this timeline?

I mean,the original timeline doesn't have the six heroes to fight the black beast,then how can mankind stand to fight the black beast and how can Ragna got the BlazBlue,the jacket,sword and his title in the first place?

That is the greatest question regarding the original timeline which hopefully will be answered in the new novel.

3.) In Calamity Trigger's Jin storymode, you are playing as the Jin that ultimately becomes Hakumen. NOT the Jin you see in Continuum Shift! The only exception to this, as far as I know, is the True Ending, which is the exact same Jin you see in CS I believe. I think it was done like this to build up to the "omg jin is hakumen!!" plot twist.

No, the Jin that becomes Hakumen is the one from the wheel of fortune which appeared in the timeline without Noel. The Jin seen in CT is the same of CS. However taking most of his endings in account when he jumps in the cauldron after Nu and Ragna he goes to another timeline and becomes the Hakumen of that timeline thanks to Rachel.

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I have theory where the Blood-Scythe and Ragna's jacket came from is that Ragna himself maded both of them in the original timeline or some one else maded them. I do believe that the original timeline is very different from the other timelines, like that Black Beast did not exist that time. However, some events happened how they do (Nua dn Ragna falling into the Cauldron) and some event happened but in different way (Like if Nu is clone of Saya or not)

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It shows only Noel's uniform, NOT her face. That's a pretty telling sign it's Tsubaki if the shadow is only the uniform, and since we already established that characters can recall events of other timelines, it's very much possible he is remembering the original timeline. Please re-watch the scene I posted, the scene makes a lot more sense now that you look back at the game now.

And I don't think Hakumen existed in multiple timelines in CT. I was pretty sure that, since Rachel pulled one of the Jin's from his respective timeline, Hakumen was made "outside of" the timeloop, in observer land or whatever they're calling it. The only time Hakumen exists in multiple timelines is in Continuum Shift was because of the nature of the Continuum Shift. (Something, might I add, that Hakumen himself realizes when he cuts apart time when he fights Arakune)

All in all, i'm pretty 100% damn sure Rachel made Hakumen ONCE, and only ONCE. Anything else is a result of the continuum shift.

btw, one last thing, I still think it's quite possible that Rachel removed Jin's memories of Noel when he became Hakumen as a way of "protecting" Noel. It's pretty clear that's what she's been doing in CT and bits of CS. It wouldn't be the first time someone played with Jin's memories (lolzama)

Jin getting put into the susanoo unit causes his memories to be damaged, it's not that Jin gets his memories wiped. The problem with your theory is alot of the CT stuff was retcon by WoF, the novels, and some parts of CS. Only the CT reconstruction should be considered the 'canon' path to the true end. Most of the CT loops happened, and it is possible for Jin to be hakumen even in a timeline with Noel, just that the hakumen from CS comes from the WoF timeline.

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What exactly got retconned by CT reconstruction? It just shows the true end.

Also Rachel does exist outside the loops. She just watches everybody repeat the same thing over and over.

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i think in the orginal timeline the one who kill tsubaki is jin by accident thanks to Yukianesa brain washing him in the original timline

[Orginal timeline]- ragna beat jin ,jin kills tsubaki, nu falls in the cauldren with ragna and jin chases after him (noel never existed cause she died during the Ikaruga incident)

[Second timeline]- ragna beat jin , jin kills noel , ragna fights hakumen, ragna losses to nu and falls in to the cauldren and jin chases after him

[Third timeline] - ragna beat jin , ragna fights hakumen , nu overpowers noel ,ragna losses to nu, noel saves ragna

their was as a timeline one that

[ALT timeline] -ragna beat jin , ragna fights hakumen , nu kills noel ,ragna losses to nu and fall into the cauldren jin chases after him

jin had remember somthing from the orginal timeline that he killed someone but it was not noel though i think it was tsubaki thanks to Yukianesa control over him the shadow represents tusbaki case she at the time was wearing the uniform as Jin's secretary

we all know tsubaki died but it was never told how she died and i think that shadow vid gave us a clue how she died

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i think in the orginal timeline the one who kill tsubaki is jin by accident thanks to Yukianesa brain washing him in the original timline

[Orginal timeline]- ragna beat jin ,jin kills tsubaki, nu falls in the cauldren with ragna and jin chases after him (noel never existed cause she died during the Ikaruga incident)

[Second timeline]- ragna beat jin , jin kills noel , ragna fights hakumen, ragna losses to nu and falls in to the cauldren and jin chases after him

[Third timeline] - ragna beat jin , ragna fights hakumen , nu overpowers noel ,ragna losses to nu, noel saves ragna

their was as a timeline one that

[ALT timeline] -ragna beat jin , ragna fights hakumen , nu kills noel ,ragna losses to nu and fall into the cauldren jin chases after him

jin had remember somthing from the orginal timeline that he killed someone but it was not noel though i think it was tsubaki thanks to Yukianesa control over him the shadow represents tusbaki case she at the time was wearing the uniform as Jin's secretary

we all know tsubaki died but it was never told how she died and i think that shadow vid gave us a clue how she died

I may not be an expert, but didn't the Wheel of Fortune drama CD thing say Nu killed Tsubaki? Like, Nu saw her, and thought she was trying to steal Ragna from her and attacked. That's what I heard, at least. :V

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jin had remember somthing from the orginal timeline that he killed someone but it was not noel though i think it was tsubaki thanks to Yukianesa control over him the shadow represents tusbaki case she at the time was wearing the uniform as Jin's secretary

My theory about this shadow is very simple. Jin was influenced by Yukianesa and killed Noel. When Jin reassumed control of his body he hallucinated and saw a shadow that looked like Noel because he just killed her. Tsubaki was killed by Nu in the original timeline and never was killed in any other timeline because she wasn't in kagutsuchi after ragna and nu jumped in the cauldron and take-mikazuchi blasted the entire mountain.

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I may not be an expert, but didn't the Wheel of Fortune drama CD thing say Nu killed Tsubaki? Like, Nu saw her, and thought she was trying to steal Ragna from her and attacked. That's what I heard, at least. :V

Yep, that's what happened. She was killed in front of Jin, and he needless to say he didn't take it well.

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oh so that wat happen

i all i know it said that in the wheel of fortune is that tsubaki saw the Alt timeline when jin and saya was close not how tsubaki died

i wish they cont. the phase 0 manga seies even though it was a one time only

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i have a theory that's this novel still won't show us the original timeline,because there still one timeline where Noel doesn't exist and that's timeline is the timeline in Makoto story mode.

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Isn't the timeline where Makoto falls in pretty much the Wheel of Fortune timeline (Hint why's that, picking Noel and Tsubaki at the end doesn't change the outcome, which cofused me at first before I remembered that Tsubaki died in that timeline)? And even if not, why would they told what happened there even though they would focus on more important timeline like the first timeline.

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Isn't the timeline where Makoto falls in pretty much the Wheel of Fortune timeline (Hint why's that, picking Noel and Tsubaki at the end doesn't change the outcome, which cofused me at first before I remembered that Tsubaki died in that timeline)? And even if not, why would they told what happened there even though they would focus on more important timeline like the first timeline.

Well,i think the timeline where Makoto falls in is more important than we though,i mean why the show us the timeline in the first place?

That's why i think the timeline where Makoto fall in is the last timeline before Noel finally appeared i can be wrong though and for the Wheel of Fortune drama i never watch it so i don't know anything about the drama.

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I think it's more on story purpose than anything else. I mean, she clearly warns Noel that Hazama is bad news and she fight against Noel and Tsubaki in her arcade mode so that she can get them away before Hazama gets to them. Which she knows thanks to her trip to the alternate timeline. The alternate timeline is really not important, it's what Makoto learns from that visit what really matters.

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Ooookaaay....sorry for bringing this up as you guys probably been asked a bunch of times, and since this is exactly not related to what you guys were talking about (well its about this series, mostly Noel and Ragna, but still..), But while I did beaten CS 2 years ago, playing CSE currently, and been reading some spoilers for BBCP related to Noel, Ragna ( i think) and Mu-12's arcade story. there's something thats been bugging the total hell out of me ever since I started playing the series....and if this is the wrong place to put it (I dont believe it is, of course this post can be moved if necessary) or if this is gonna piss you guys off, deeming this as a stupid question, I apologize.

But my question is, I've been seeing hints that Ragna and Noel actually "like" each other as potential lovers..what of noels and/or mu's arcade story saying she wants to be strong as him, the ending in CT, and CS/CS2/CSE, and Mori's interview mentioning that Saya's relationship between Ragna and Noel is going to be important in the story...

Are they going to end up being together? ._____. Or what I'm seeing is nothing more than just sisterly/brotherly love or fan service that the developer is just going along with, and I'm just thinking like an idiot..

Again sorry if this is a time waster to you guys and for making bloody paragraphs for one question ...but I just want to find out what I'm asking is officially true and for some explanation incase that I missed something...

Ever since I read the Blazen comics (which were SO GODDAMN awesome! and hilarious... I wish you do more dragon...or whatever username/name you go by..)

I've been watching this forums for news about the series and games for 2 years... but considering my project, also googling and researching with no actual answers..I feel like I should ask here since you guys talk A LOT about this game and seems to have a load of knowledge to answer this or atleast can give your opinion.. hope this is okay for my first post...haha..

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