Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Circuitous

[P4A] Kanji Wiki Discussion

Recommended Posts

Hey, use this thread to discuss plans for editing the wiki, or to critique edits already made.

Some notes on formatting

  • Indent paragraphs by putting a colon ( : ) before the first character. Add more colons for additional indentation.
  • Create lists using asterisks ( * ). Add more asterisks for sub-lists.
  • Preview your changes. If it looks ugly, fix it.



    Combo Notation

    • > denotes a gatling (a cancel between normals)
    • , denotes a link (where a normal fully recovers, then the next attack is performed)
    • xx denotes a special cancel (where a normal is canceled into a special move, or a special is canceled into a super)
    • (#) after an attack means you should cancel the attack after that many hits (example: 236236A(2) OMC 214214C)
    • For OMCs and OMBs, don't use any other indicator between them (see above example)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I threw everything on there because I figure I can fix it with formatting--I was taking notes from the other pages to consider how to mark optimal combos, efficient formatting, etc, and figured the best option for now is to throw everything on there and experiment a bit with formatting and possibly hiding half of it in expandable boxes. At the very least, I can reformat it for a 'most useful/common' combo section and spoilerbox everything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I threw everything on there because I figure I can fix it with formatting--I was taking notes from the other pages to consider how to mark optimal combos, efficient formatting, etc, and figured the best option for now is to throw everything on there and experiment a bit with formatting and possibly hiding half of it in expandable boxes. At the very least, I can reformat it for a 'most useful/common' combo section and spoilerbox everything else.

for one, please put the damage IN FRONT of the combos and sort each category by damage. this will simply look VASTLY better and the eye and user has some sort of indicator to look after. you can either leave it after situation (normal starter, super starter etc) or categorize that after meter used (meterless, 50 sp, 100 sp, 150 sp, burst)

ATM:

5AA > 2A > 2AB OMC 2C > 2B > 236C > 236A/B *cost 50 SP* [DM: 2790|???]

5AA > 2A > 2AB OMC 2C > 2B > 236C > OMC, dash 2B > 236C > 236A/B *cost 100 SP* [DM: 3412|???]

2B > 236C > 236A/B DM:2258|???

2B > 236B~214B OMC, dash 2C > 2B > 236C > 236A/B *cost 50 SP* [DM: 3527|???]

2B > 236B~214B > 236236B(2) OMC 214214C/D *cost 150 SP* [DM: 4621]

New:

Meterless

[2258] 2B > 236C > 236A/B

...

50 SP

[2790] 5AA > 2A > 2AB OMC 2C > 2B > 236C > 236A/B

[3527] 2B > 236B~214B OMC, dash 2C > 2B > 236C > 236A/B

...

100 SP

[3412] 5AA > 2A > 2AB OMC 2C > 2B > 236C > OMC, dash 2B > 236C > 236A/B

...

150 SP

[4621] 2B > 236B~214B > 236236B(2) OMC 214214C/D

....

Another suggestion would be to keep the starter category and simply color them depending on the meter used (black = meterless, slight blue 50 sp, blue 100, dark blue 150, Burst = Dark Yellow/Orange or something; not the whole combo, just the damage [4621] 2B > 236B~214B > 236236B(2) OMC 214214C/D ).

no matter what, tho - the damage in the front is very advisable as it looks cleaner and more simple to grasp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
for one, please put the damage IN FRONT of the combos and sort each category by damage. snip

Sure thing, although it's already ordered as meterless first, then increasing amounts of SP used, then burst and SP used in that order, from least to most. I figured that would be a good strategy as it's pretty self explanatory when you think about it.

I'll throw up the damage reformatting immediately, while the rest I'll play around with before I edit anything, as I'm not sure what looks better, a million different categories or a long list or god knows what. Hopefully I can find some easy method to test it in notepad before throwing it up lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please don't do any of that. At the very least don't do the colors part. There's plenty of room on the page to provide notes on the combos, including damage and meter, without adding clutter or forcing the user to remember a color code with no in-game significance.

Edit: your formatting might actually kill me.

Don't stop adding info just, y'know, try to make it look halfway decent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Please don't do any of that.

hey just some suggestions. I don't say it's mandatory or will look great in a wall of text combo thread. Just something to consider. But I don't understand how you can be against damage in front of the combos. here is a thread that utilizes that (and meter category [tho that's not important, just look at the front damage]) and looks rather clean to look at.

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/nothing-like-a-good-workout-paul-combo-thread.155775/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also we have a new thread. It's about wiki editing!

As far as damage in front of combos goes... it looks okay? But I question how useful it actually is.

My personal opinion as to what the general flow of a combo's notation should be is:

[situation] Attacks > into > attacks, plus > a > few |> more. - Requires XX%, XXXX damage, gains XX%.

Additional notes regarding timing or alternate routes for position.

This works better for a short list of optimal combos, but it's too wordy for an exhaustive list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can we keep the hidden text for the flowchart for paralysis? that way we can have a buttload of text and keep it easily digestable when done by category rather than making it so people have to scroll through ~2 pages of text to get to the next section. I don't know why you'd remove thatttt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I removed the hidden text because it fucked up the formatting elsewhere.

Maybe we could just not have a wall of text? A lot of the information seems repeated or only a slight change from what appears above it. Maybe writing from a different angle (your options > what it covers, vs. what they do > your options) will help save space?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also we have a new thread. It's about wiki editing!

As far as damage in front of combos goes... it looks okay? But I question how useful it actually is.

My personal opinion as to what the general flow of a combo's notation should be is:

[situation] Attacks > into > attacks, plus > a > few |> more. - Requires XX%, XXXX damage, gains XX%.

Additional notes regarding timing or alternate routes for position.

This works better for a short list of optimal combos, but it's too wordy for an exhaustive list.

thing is the damage is alwasy a fix length [1234] so it's easy to see the attacks right away, where as the damage behind is moving depending on how many characters are used for the combo. it's very tiring to "search" for the damage at the very end (the most important part of the combo - the main indicator). I dunno if you even need special notes, as that should be implemented when it occurs or not? like 214 C, wait 2f, 5A or whatever instead of writing at the end (wait 2f after the 214 C) or something. I dunno how important it is to gather the meter gain to be honest, it's not that it plays such a crucial role - but I can see that it could be nice to know. How about a split then?

[4621] 2B > 236B~214B > 236236B(2) OMC 214214C/D -MeterDeficit; Notes-

or

[4621|-150] 2B > 236B~214B > 236236B(2) OMC 214214C/D -Notes-

You don't have to answer or consider any of that. I'm just babbling x)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like I said, the format is better for a short list of optimal combos. Meaning you don't have to dig through a sea of damage values to see the kind of combos you want to do, since all the combos listed will be ideal.

Besides which, who sorts through combos based on damage, and then looks for anything but the highest? If that's your primary search target, why even list anything else?

As far as additional notes below the combo: not all combos need them, but some have tricky timings or things to be aware of that would be overwhelming if it were all on the same line as the combo itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I removed the hidden text because it fucked up the formatting elsewhere. snip

Fixed any formatting issues I could find. If we have it laid out this way, it serves a few different purposes:

1. with the text hide-able, it's not super cluttered and can be digested in chunks

2. laying it out like this is a lot more like how it flows in a match--you don't do something and have them react to it, they move and you react. once it's finalized I'll find a way to note when the information is repeated or have each thing with repeated text say 'see previous reasoning...' etc, whatever ends up being the most pleasing/efficient out of what I try.

if people REALLY don't like the way it's laid out I'll fix it, but it seems pretty logical to me. I do agree with some problematic ones (214214c/d is going to have the same description for half of them) but I'll see what needs to be done about that once I finalize writing in every option I can possibly think of, then proofread it fully, and then see which ones I can revise to be the same text every time (or whatever option ends up being best.) it kinda got thrown up as is because class ended at the time of editing, sorry lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll let you finish doing what you're doing, then I'll see if I can't clean it up some more. If you don't like my changes we'll just revert it.

With enough people hammering at it we'll eventually find something we like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's definitely a nice change of pace!

I encourage anyone who thinks they have something worth sharing to contribute, even if I come off as a bit totalitarian about the whole thing. I know not all of the info I added is perfect, so any clarification or additions there are certainly welcome. We can always do clean up later if things don't look right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Like I said, the format is better for a short list of optimal combos. Meaning you don't have to dig through a sea of damage values to see the kind of combos you want to do, since all the combos listed will be ideal.

Besides which, who sorts through combos based on damage, and then looks for anything but the highest? If that's your primary search target, why even list anything else?

because less damaging combos will most likely have a lower difficulty. it's about giving alternatives to the best combo. if the best combo is also the easiest to do, you're right, you won't need much else for that situation. categorizing everything after the situation makes sense (I never doubted that) so 5A, 5B, 5C, FC 5C etc is good enough.

When I'm new to a game that has already established combos I think like this: "What's my BNB for 5AA?", "what's the best option for FC 5C?" etc and take that into the training room. If I can't do the combo because of some difficulty for now, I'll try the next one in the list (that does less damage, but is prolly easier to do, otherwise it would be unwise to list it in the first place) till I find one that is convenient to do for the beginning. That's the reason for me to list more then one combo: difficulty. Granted you still don't need many combos per situation, and many combos will be easy enough to do for a specific situation, so 1 or 2 entry are enough. strictly for the wiki tho. the combo thread can list many more options and go more into different combo enders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And dumping suggestions/info in the thread is entirely welcome--I'm an amazing student in that I can attend classes AND spend the entire class period editing and formatting anime fighting game wikis without problem!

(except for the schoolwork part.)

Regardless, I'm usually happy to edit in any info people have, including new sections/etcetc. I'll be done once this is posted Circuitous--calling it a day (for now at least) once I edit in a really lazy section for character specific notes on the paralysis flowchart + some details in the flowchart. (I apologize profusely for how lazily it's formatted, but I figured throw information on there first, edit it tonight or tomorrow to be GREAT formatting)

As for the combo section, we definitely need some discussion--As of right now, there IS a formatting to it:

Each section is labeled midscreen/corner, and goes by normal starter, special starter and super starter. Each section is seperated by what the hitconfirm is and only optimal combos are listed (barring 2C i was like screw 2C for some reason). All of them are listed in order of no meter, to more meter, to max meter, to burst, to most meter + burst, etc etc, with FCs being labeled right at the start. SB cruel followups are now omitted because 'yes it does more damage' and i generally tend to gauge whether to use it off of the visual amount left on a healthbar anyway. I think it's a good start for the combo section at least, and we can upgrade it as time goes on from here on with easier combos/better formatting/whatever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this style. tho, I think you can scrap the "costs" and just write *50SP* :)

and/or you could try to see if replacing the "--" with "2B" and "CH 2B" does something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pressure section is horrible.

I am making a shortened version of it, I expect you guys to take it summarize it and toss it in.

Summarizing a summary.

Yes I expect that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I still plan to reformat and clean up some of the sections on the wiki (paralysis chart and the character specific notes underneath for example) any suggestions for a 'most needed next section' for the wiki? either to be added or fleshed out. matchups/defense/somethin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was looking through the wiki last night and saw some combos where you didn't know if they were optimal. In general, they are probably the easiest combos to get that much damage. If they end in 2A > 2B > 236C then you can usually change it to 2A > 5B > 2B > 236C for a little more damage. I can probably get on in a little while and see which ones this applies to (if it would help you).

^ Just some scrub input, but I hope it helps, nontheless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While I still plan to reformat and clean up some of the sections on the wiki (paralysis chart and the character specific notes underneath for example) any suggestions for a 'most needed next section' for the wiki? either to be added or fleshed out. matchups/defense/somethin.

I'd like some "KANJI S.O.S. - What to do against XYZ"

for instance, has kanji something specific vs teddies barrel super, or how to deal with mitsuru's 5a / yu's 5B. anything against aigis 2B? Akihiko's left-right punches etc just what's most crucial against some characters and their tools. based on that, the real match up strategy can be fleshed out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Character specific stuff like that goes in the match up thread.

@ LegendaryRath: Wiki should have two things when it comes to combos, easy execution and optimal.

I assure you 2A > 5B > 2B is not the easiest thing to do and that usually gives you the opportunity to OMC, 2C > 2B > 236C.

So keep that in mind.

Combo thread is to show off What you can do off a given hit so...if you didn't know this then don't copy/paste the combo thread to the wiki.

Then again this applies to all of you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Character specific stuff like that goes in the match up thread.

To reiterate: the wiki page should be a basic guide with all the core information. Anything specific to a certain matchup or that is extremely detailed belongs on the forums.

If you're not sure, default to leaving it on the forums.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×