AC: General Q&A

[Aurora Borealis]

My execution really sucks in general, but there are a couple things that I'm really having problems with. First is of course the Rensen FRC, which seems to be really unforgiving in its timing. At best, I can only manage it about 50% of the time, at worst maybe 1 out of 10 times. Second is his blockstrings that involve Rensen. I try to do a simple K, 2d, and then Rensen, and sometimes it doesn't come out, and when it does, it usually hits them after they've already hit the ground, so they can tech out. Only a couple times have I hit them before they've hit the ground. Using K, 2d, Rensen as a template, when and how fast should I input each move, when should I start charging back, and when should I do the 6s for Rensen? Aside from this, Bomber loops and throw combos are also a bitch to learn, and I know the Rensen FRC will take time to get down, but the blockstring problem is really bugging me. If anyone would like to input, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

[Adelheid]

My execution really sucks in general, but there are a couple things that I'm really having problems with.

First is of course the Rensen FRC, which seems to be really unforgiving in its timing. At best, I can only manage it about 50% of the time, at worst maybe 1 out of 10 times.

Second is his blockstrings that involve Rensen. I try to do a simple K, 2d, and then Rensen, and sometimes it doesn't come out, and when it does, it usually hits them after they've already hit the ground, so they can tech out. Only a couple times have I hit them before they've hit the ground. Using K, 2d, Rensen as a template, when and how fast should I input each move, when should I start charging back, and when should I do the 6s for Rensen?

Aside from this, Bomber loops and throw combos are also a bitch to learn, and I know the Rensen FRC will take time to get down, but the blockstring problem is really bugging me. If anyone would like to input, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

There's an easy reason why it's not coming out: You are not charging it long enough. similarly, if they're on the ground, you've waited too long to Rensen. The only reason I can figure between it mostly alternating between not charging long enough and waiting to long is that you're not charging early enough. This is an easy problem to fix, though.

Consider: 5K has 6 frame startup, and 2D has 9 frame startup. Adding 25 frames of hitstop, even delaying nothing, Rensen should work. (Though, I always delay my 6S on the Rensen until just after the hitstop of the move before it, to make sure the FRC timing is always the same - since moves don't come out during hitstop, there'd be a delay that would otherwise throw it off.) Really, if there's any time there's even the slightest chance you'll want to do Rensen or Rashousen soon and you're not doing something that would make it disadvantageous to do so, you may as well be holding back. So in a string like this, where you know you'll be ending with Rensen, and nothing has a forward input, you may as well just be holding back the entire time. For strings involving 3P, start holding back immediately after hitting P.

[Digital Watches]

Rensen FRC is just practice, but since it's a bunch of active frames that happen from a bit before the FRC to way after, it can make the timing vary by distance and whether you hit or not, so practice a few different spacings when you connect, and also practice the FRC when not connecting. For strings, I'd say the rule of thumb would be hold back as soon as humanly possible. If it's something like 3P, 2D, hold 1 right when you hit the punch button. Things that don't involve a forward-input move are much easier, just do 3K, 3D, Rensen or whatever. No need to delay the rensen after the last hit, just do it as soon as possible. Just as a addendum to Stark's comment, hitting 6S at any given time during hitstop won't increase or decrease the time it takes to come out by definition, and therefore the FRC timing will be the same. However, it can vary how quickly you have to input the move, but I wouldn't rely on reacting to hitstop like that, especially since it's going to vary from move to move.

[Adelheid]

Rensen FRC is just practice, but since it's a bunch of active frames that happen from a bit before the FRC to way after, it can make the timing vary by distance and whether you hit or not, so practice a few different spacings when you connect, and also practice the FRC when not connecting.

I'm pretty sure this isn't true, since Rensen has no hitstop to screw with the timing.

Edit: Before anyone calls me on this, I mean that Axl experiences no hitstop. Opponent does.

Just as a addendum to Stark's comment, hitting 6S at any given time during hitstop won't increase or decrease the time it takes to come out by definition, and therefore the FRC timing will be the same. However, it can vary how quickly you have to input the move, but I wouldn't rely on reacting to hitstop like that, especially since it's going to vary from move to move.

I guess I worded that kinda poorly; I meant that if you enter it during hitstop, it can change the amount of time between when you first input 6S and when you perform the FRC, because the move is coming out a bit after you hit the button. Of course the FRC will stay constant in the move itself.

[Digital Watches]

I'm pretty sure this isn't true, since Rensen has no hitstop to screw with the timing.

Uh, how'd'ya figure, sportsfan?

EDIT: Alright, I talked to Stark and he clarified. There is hitstop on Rensen, but it's projectile hitstop. Also, I rechecked my recording-based testing on the matter and it turns out it can all be explained by spacing-related issues screwing with gatling/cancel times. So yeah, hitstop doesn't directly affect the FRC timing on this move.

I guess I worded that kinda poorly; I meant that if you enter it during hitstop, it can change the amount of time between when you first input 6S and when you perform the FRC, because the move is coming out a bit after you hit the button. Of course the FRC will stay constant in the move itself.

Aye, it's definitely good for muscle memory I suppose.

[Silmerion]

Or you could do it my way and just muscle-memory Rensen, then fumble endlessly with the timing on different blockstrings in practice mode. :8/:

[Adelheid]

I hear that's the way everyone who isn't me does it

[Sking]

The way I learned nobody has ever, ever do it: Blind Muscle-memory I do a simple string like: 5k, cS, 2D, Resen frc, over and over again, without looking the tv just hearing the word ROMANCEL. That works with 2HS and Raei S :P

[Adelheid]

Well a lot of characters have strings that are purely timing-based, with no spacing issues, and on a lot of those ones Axl has, I can get them off without looking at the screen. Of course, Axl has a lot of strings that can't be done that way for one reason or another.

[Digital Watches]

I say man up and get your combos/blockstrings down pat. There's no reliable fancy trick to learning them, just practice until it works.

[Beowulf]

I just love Kokuu-> FRC ! I use to spam it maybe too much, so I'm wondering : How good is this move ? 1) As a combo starter (I know its good, but I'd like figures, and the probability of getting a counter hit from it...) 2) As an Air to ground move (How safe is it on block, after a jump/double jump ?) 3) As an air to air move (Can you land safely without FRC on FD block ?) 4) As a cross-up (can it cross-up as a meaty ? And if not, is it "throw safe" ?) Right that's all I have to ask. If you got something, please help ^^

[Digital Watches]

I just love Kokuu-> FRC ! I use to spam it maybe too much, so I'm wondering : How good is this move ?

1) As a combo starter (I know its good, but I'd like figures, and the probability of getting a counter hit from it...)

You get a bit more damage, and the probability is as good as you make it by using it in varied situations.

2) As an Air to ground move (How safe is it on block, after a jump/double jump ?)

Not very without the FRC, but what you want to do with Kokuu is try to bait a move with a hitbox and nab it with the projectile. Either that or just plain cross up. If you think they'll block it, you shouldn't try it (Although you can mix up from a block+FRC)

3) As an air to air move (Can you land safely without FRC on FD block ?)

I think you can at max range, but again, it's better to go for situations where you think you'll hit. But this move is gold in certain matchups. It's the only true zoning tool Axl has, and it can be a very potent "Get out of my sky" move when you're forced to fight air-to-air. I like it over j.6P in most situations, although that move has the benefit of being faster.

4) As a cross-up (can it cross-up as a meaty ? And if not, is it "throw safe" ?)

Yeah, you can mess with it. Go for things like jump over Kokuu, airdash forward Kokuu, Jump forward airdash back Kokuu (Vary whether it crosses up on both of these last ones) (Note, don't try this stuff too much unless it's oki.)

[Aurora Borealis]

Thanks for the help with the Rensen. I don't have a problem with it anymore. That being said, I've never been able to do a Bomber loop once. For some reason, after I do the 2s then j.D in the corner, I do the input for the Bomber, and it never comes out. The 1 or 2 times it did come out, they were way too late. I can do normal, TK, and FB Bombers just fine, but this one seems to elude me. Is there a trick that can make it easier or do I just need to input faster, etc.?

[Sking]

Yeah man input the bomber a bit faster

[Adelheid]

Thanks for the help with the Rensen. I don't have a problem with it anymore.

That being said, I've never been able to do a Bomber loop once. For some reason, after I do the 2s then j.D in the corner, I do the input for the Bomber, and it never comes out. The 1 or 2 times it did come out, they were way too late. I can do normal, TK, and FB Bombers just fine, but this one seems to elude me. Is there a trick that can make it easier or do I just need to input faster, etc.?

It's not just a matter of inputting it faster; if it often doesn't come out, most likely you are not performing the input correctly. Attempt it a few times in training mode with input showing and see if there are any problems. It maybe that you're just doing it too late, but more than likely you're also doing something silly. I know for awhile I had an odd problem where I'd 2S, 9 to jump, j.D, then 23H, completely skipping the 6.

[Zanken]

I'm trying to get this down to. I find that doing 6d, 23h is having pretty good success rate for getting j.d to bomber gattling.

[Silmerion]

I just...you know...do it normally. Like an average person.:8/:

[Aurora Borealis]

Yeah, I see what I was doing wrong now. I needed to input the Bomber in earlier so the j.D would cancel into the Bomber. But I really have to rush to do it, and it's still a little hard. A couple days ago, I finally fought against a real opponent who used Slayer, Potemkin, and Jam, and I found myself responding horribly under pressure, trying to maintain a lot of distance, and spamming j.S and 2P, especially j.S. What effective ways can I use Housou and Benten S, especially Benten because I found myself trying to spam that on wakeup or something and it not working well too often. And overall, how should I be playing (or does it differ vastly between matchups)?

[Beowulf]

What effective ways can I use Housou and Benten S, especially Benten because I found myself trying to spam that on wakeup or something and it not working well too often.

On wake up against meaties, they are both useless. Housou takes 2 frames to start. Meaning it won't help you on okizeme, except if the opponent does it late. But then again, it only counters Highs, so don't use it and block. Benten is quite similar. The S version comes out fast and is a good reversal. Only it gets eaten by low meaties (potemkin's and jam's 5+K for instance). You are quite vulnerable on block unless you FRC. but then again, if the hit whiffs (enemy backdashes) you are just dead ^^

So on okizeme : DEFEND, JUMP, FLEE ! That's all ^^

And overall, how should I be playing (or does it differ vastly between matchups)?

Usually, you should be zonning a lot to take advantage from your huge range. Spamming chains is not an issue, as the opponent may learn how to go through them and counter for the win ! But it mostly is matchup dependent. Shoto and DW made great guides, so read them for a start ^^

[Silmerion]

Usually, you should be zonning a lot to take advantage from your huge range. Spamming chains is not an issue, as the opponent may learn how to go through them and counter for the win ! But it mostly is matchup dependent. Shoto and DW made great guides, so read them for a start ^^

No. Axl is not a keepaway character. Stop it.

[Beowulf]

I never said "keepaway" but "zonning". Whatever you say, Axl's main weakness is to fight up close. And you are more likely to win against characters such as i-No, O-Sol or Slayer if you keep your distance than if you rush blindly ! Getting knocked down is NOT an issue for Axl, and the best way to do it is by staying at a huge distance from the enemy. Moreover he deals great damage from just a 5+P or a basic AA combo. So why taking risks ? Of course he can rush and be incredibly anoying on okizeme. But it musn't be your main objective.

[Aurora Borealis]

Yeah, playing Axl solely as a keepaway wasn't working too well, so I started getting in a little when I got the chance. Especially since if I'm not rushing, my opponent's rushing me. Now, apparently I've just found out that my TV has a 3-4 frame lag or so. It's the only TV I got to play on (I'm in a dorm now), so will I screw myself if I practice training mode on this TV? Or are there ways I can circumvent this issue, like learning my combos and FRCs by muscle memory alone and no visual cues?

[Adelheid]

I never said "keepaway" but "zonning". Whatever you say, Axl's main weakness is to fight up close. And you are more likely to win against characters such as i-No, O-Sol or Slayer if you keep your distance than if you rush blindly ! Getting knocked down is NOT an issue for Axl, and the best way to do it is by staying at a huge distance from the enemy. Moreover he deals great damage from just a 5+P or a basic AA combo. So why taking risks ? Of course he can rush and be incredibly anoying on okizeme. But it musn't be your main objective.

Okay, but Axl isn't a zoning character, either. Up close, Axl has very good offensive options. Often, to safely get in, you will need an opening to use one of your long pokes and then follow it up with a blockstring or combo, but plenty of them can also be started not from reacting with a 5P or 6K or 2S but by approaching with various shorter moves if you can, or even IAD j.S or what have you. Axl has great tools up close. He may ideally get up close in ways different from a lot of characters, but he has a lot of tools for rushdown, even if he's poor on defense at that same range. Saying that Axl is bad at fighting up close is just... inaccurate.

[Digital Watches]

I disagree with a lot of things being said here: 1. Benten S is a fine reversal as long as you're sure the meaty won't hit your feet. 2. Housou is only a reversal option ONLY if the attack your opponent is throwing isn't meaty. Remember, 2F until active means that if they fuck up their meaty even slightly, you get it. Also, due to the way it works with hitstop, it's good to know what level of move you're trying to counter. As a general rule: Level 5: free hit, guaranteed on activation. Level 4: opponent has 1F, etc. Therefore countering 5Ps (usually lv.1) isn't really that good, as often the opponent can just do a normal gatling or whatever and beat you out. 3. There are some situations where Axl can effectively zone. What I mean when I say he's not a zoning/keepaway based character is that he shouldn't be trying to run away and keep his distance after scoring a hit with something long range, because unlike things like Faust, Testament (fortress), and Venom, he doesn't really have any way to set something defensive up. The larger advantage of Axl's range isn't the ability to zone out, it's the ability NOT to get zoned out by other characters (except for venom.) That's why his matchups v. Ky and Testament (Venom is different) are in his favor. All zoning really is is trying to keep at a distance where your moves will hit and their moves won't. 4. Eh. Axl is pretty bad at fighting up close on the defensive, which is exactly why you shouldn't put yourself in a defensive position. The only character that can't really get in on Axl well is HOS, and that's if you've got really good reaction time and are very patient.

[Beowulf]

Is a jump installed benten HS possible to pull out as a reversal ? (62369+HS on wake up)