AC: General Q&A

[Digital Watches]

Is a jump installed benten HS possible to pull out as a reversal ? (62369+HS on wake up)

Nope. Jump-install means you actually start jumping (which takes at least one frame) meaning that your benten will start out, if done perfectly, on the second frame after wakeup. If you're trying to beat a low meaty with it, this obviously won't work.

[Beowulf]

Ok.

It's totally not Axl related (should be in the Eddie section maybe) but how do you explain chipp's JI Dragon at 1:13 on eddie's puddle ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fPDjKqra6c

Shouldn't the puddle be a low meaty ?

Or does Chipp's Dragon has invulv I'm not aware of ?

[Adelheid]

Ok.

It's totally not Axl related (should be in the Eddie section maybe) but how do you explain chipp's JI Dragon at 1:13 on eddie's puddle ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fPDjKqra6c

Shouldn't the puddle be a low meaty ?

Or does Chipp's Dragon has invulv I'm not aware of ?

Beta Blade has 1-8 full invuln, 9-12 strike invuln, and auto-JI, actually. 'tis all there in his frame data.

[Beowulf]

Auto JI ? A dragon ?! Damn, it's ****ing safe actually... But it wasn't done as a "reversal". Doesn't it mean it was done after the 1st frame ?

[Digital Watches]

OH! This might explain a lot of things that have been weirding me out for a while. 1. In the meaty IAD j.S/Puddle unblockable, you have to block the j.S first, then the puddle. 2. Projectiles don't appear to be affected by the inherent crossup-guard system that doesn't allow meaties to hit as crossups (or more accurately, meaties can be blocked both backward and forward). 3. This thing, with Chipp non-reversal DPing out of the puddle. It needs more testing, but here's my current theory: Projectiles can't hit meaty. Anything considered a projectile will hit one frame after normal moves would otherwise connect on the opponent's wakeup.

[Silmerion]

Totally not related to the fun-derful game engine speculation above (EDIT: or, as it seems, on the previous page), but what's a good input for TK Kokuu?

[Digital Watches]

632148 or 6321478 or even 632149 have worked fine for me. On the left side, for some reason, I use 632814S, which works better on that side for me for some reason.

[Adelheid]

I don't really see the purpose in TK Kokuu, actually. 963214S has always been low enough for me.

[Digital Watches]

It's mainly for beating something that would invincible through one of your other moves. Honestly, I'd say TK IAD back Kokuu (63214754S) is more useful, albeit also very situational.

[Adelheid]

Er, I totally see the purpose in using Kokuu in that situation, but generally you TK something to get it as low to the ground as possible. I don't see why that's necessary when 963214S gets it extremely low as well, and is a much more intuitive motion. Admittedly, though, that TK backdash Kokuu seems pretty cool and probably could not be cheated in such a way - I had not considered it.

[Digital Watches]

Well, having it very low is good when you're trying to beat 6Ps, but most of the time, what you want is fast. You want to hit them and also be out of the way of their hit, and Kokuu is only fast to come out if they're behind you, so TKing is good. I have some vids I recorded against a local player (Hellsap) where it won me a bunch of exchanges and traded in others (Admittedly, during the session I went out of my way to test a few things, incluiding 623H as a reversal against meaty Zappa 6P, which works like a charm if you predict right, but I think a lot of it is applicable if you work it into your game.) Since it's like... 2 hours of match play, I'm probably going to cut it up before uploading it, but I think it shows what I mean.

[Aurora Borealis]

While under pressure, what should I do? Reversal with Benten, counter with Housou, stick out a quick normal like 5K, or just block and find a chance to jump out/backdash and escape? I'm sure it's situational, so when should I do what? On wakeup, if the opponent seems to be throwing a meaty, is it better to try to Benten it or just block it or backdash? And if they don't seem to be throwing a meaty but are getting sorta close, should I just reversal anyway or throw out a quick normal or just backdash and put some distance? Close range air to air, what's usually a better option, especially when trying to interrupt someone else's move, j.H or j.K or maybe even j.D? Right now I use j.H and while it sometimes works, not sure what it's "priority" may be or if it comes out fast enough. Yeah, it's a barrage of questions, but after playing some people, I've found quite a few areas where I can improve.

[Kobayashi]

Remember that S Benten only has above ankles invulnerability and that H Benten has only below knees invulnerability. This means neither is a really reliable reversal option. 5K is not a quick normal compared to those of the majority of the cast. FD is usually pretty good for getting out of pressure. If you are familiar enough with your opponent's blockstrings, you can create openings to Housou after an IB. If you know where to IB, that is. Another move you can use to get out of pressure is S Raeisageki. This is more of a situational option. Air throws are really good in close range air to air. j.K is good at mid range since it has such long active time.

[Digital Watches]

Remember that S Benten only has above ankles invulnerability and that H Benten has only below knees invulnerability. This means neither is a really reliable reversal option.

Right, so only use it if you're sure of what they're going to do and that it won't cover a large enough area to hit both.

5K is not a quick normal compared to those of the majority of the cast.

Also true, but irrelevant. Normals are useless against meaties in general.

FD is usually pretty good for getting out of pressure.

Um, this is misleading to say. While FDing IS a good way to get out, you have to know what you should FD and what you shouldn't, as just blindly FDing wastes meter and puts you in more blockstun. Usually if there's a mid-level normal at the end of a blockstring (or right before an SC) that has a lot of pushback and recovery, you can make the next move they try after it whiff, which is your opening.

If you are familiar enough with your opponent's blockstrings, you can create openings to Housou after an IB. If you know where to IB, that is.

NOTE: You shouldn't always try to housou after IBing. Most of the time, it's better to take the opportunity to just get out. But yes, it's a good tool in certain situations. For housou in general, try to target high-level moves that cause a lot of hitstop, because not doing so can give the opponent the opportunity to beat you out even after getting countered.

Another move you can use to get out of pressure is S Raeisageki. This is more of a situational option.

HIGHLY situational. Remember that the move takes 28F to get active, so if your opponent has time to AA you at any point during that, it's a bad idea.

Air throws are really good in close range air to air. j.K is good at mid range since it has such long active time.

This. j.K is a strong air-to-air move in general. Comes out fast, disjointed hitbox, and jcable.

But most importantly, and I can't stress this enough: Axl's options to get out of pressure are very risky. A lot of the time, it's best to just block and wait for an opportunity to IB/FD out, or for your opponent to try something with a natural gap in it, like trying a tick throw or just the end of their string. Trying to force your way out when you can't really escape is a good way to get counterhit and killed.

[Adelheid]

So... Here's something I just thought about which is pretty cool. Theoretically... And note that this is complete theory here... Axl should be able to force a rashousen out of a blockstring for 25%, if the opponent is in the corner and he starts close enough. Run up and c.S, 5H, Rensen FRC, Rashousen. The c.S > 5H is just to give time to charge Rensen. The thing is, before 5H hits, you have to have hit your forward in Rensen, and then immediately hit back... Hit the S in Rensen on the back motion. You have to have pretty much perfect timing on this in order to have enough time to charge Rashousen and throw it out immediately after the Rensen FRC. Opponent has to be in the corner for Rashousen to get there in time, and overall you've got a leniency of only a few frames. It also doesn't work at all if the opponent IBs or slashbacks Rensen. (Yeah, like that'll happen.) I have no proof that this actually works, as despite my best attempts at it, I have not been successful, though I have been only a frame or two off a few times, leading me to believe that it would actually work with more practice. The math is also totally solid. On the other hand, I have a lot of reason to believe it magically doesn't work despite the math, as I've never seen it done ever. This leads me to me question... One of you go prove this works. I'm busy with other things and can't devote as much time as I'd like to to this, but it's totally epic. Sure, it's not actually a question, but whatever

[chickenfat]

So... Here's something I just thought about which is pretty cool but I have no idea if it works or not because the timing is sufficiently different from the timing I use that I can't really get it off.

Theoretically... And note that this is complete theory here... Axl should be able to force a rashousen out of a blockstring for 25%, if the opponent is in the corner and he starts close enough. Run up and c.S, 5H, Rensen FRC, Rashousen.

The c.S > 5H is just to give time to charge Rensen. The thing is, before 5H hits, you have to have hit you forward, and then immediately hit back... Hit the S in Rensen on the back motion. You have to have pretty much perfect timing on this in order to have enough time to charge Rashousen and throw it out immediately after the Rensen FRC. Opponent has to be in the corner for Rashousen to get there in time, and overall you've got a leniency of only a few frames. It also doesn't work at all if the opponent IBs or slashbacks Rensen. (Yeah, like that'll happen.)

I have no proof that this actually works, as despite my best attempts at it, I have not been successful, though I have been only a frame or two off a few times, leading me to believe that it would actually work with more practice. The math is also totally solid. On the other hand, I have a lot of reason to believe it magically doesn't work despite the math, as I've never seen it done ever.

This leads me to me question... One of you go prove this works. I'm busy with other things and can't devote as much time as I'd like to to this, but it's totally epic. Sure, it's not actually a question, but whatever

this sounds pretty interesting.ill give it a look see and get back to you.

[Kobayashi]

Some stuff about Rashousen after Rensegeki FRC

You mean this @ 1:55?

[Adelheid]

You mean this @ 1:55?

Yes! Exactly! It's totally awesome.

[chickenfat]

lol!nice!it took me like a half hour to get the timing.its definetley something to throw in there every ounce and a while.not too much though of course.:D

[Silmerion]

Good stuff, Axl subforum. Good stuff. Also, that vid has some amazing shenans.

[Adelheid]

lol!nice!it took me like a half hour to get the timing.its definetley something to throw in there every ounce and a while.not too much though of course.:D

I dunno, I can totally see the use in throwing this out over and over against characters with no/bad DPs, less than 50% tension, and no burst. It's like, once in a blue moon, you get to play as Eddie.

[JinSaotome]

Except your unblockable does about 50 damage, instead of 300+ Still, pretty cool for charas like A.B.A., or people with low remaining health+defense+cranked guard gauge

[Adelheid]

Except your unblockable does about 50 damage, instead of 300+

Still, pretty cool for charas like A.B.A., or people with low remaining health+defense+cranked guard gauge

81 damage, since the very act of doing this cranks guard bar enough to make sure both hits of Rashousen do their max. Even with guts, doing that two or three times is still pretty alright damage.

[Digital Watches]

This is definitely cool and works, but it's also less damage than just getting a throw from the situation, especially with all the guardbar. What I WILL say is that it's less risk. A situation I'd actually use it in is against an opponent that's just a tad too jumpy with the DPs/Jabs, and thus would get out of tick-throws without predicting them. That way you still get to force a knockdown.

[bbq sauce]

Not really gameplay related, but I didn't think it deserved it's own thread... Does anyone know where that dude posted a list of Japanese Axl players names in kanji? I think it was in that who has the best Ax thread, but, I believe that's been deleted.