[GGAC+R] Baiken - Combo Thread and Technical discussion

[kaeru]

You want to also do a mini dash 6P, as well as doing it late. That might be what you are missing. Also, it doesn't work on lighter characters. Robo-Ky is one of the easier characters to practice on and then move up from there.

 

I hope that helps !

[Marble]

Greetings Baiken forum. 

 

I've been trying to do this combo consistently: 2K > 6P > 623P > J. SD frc, air dash > J. H > air 236K (land) > J. SD frc, air dash > J. H > air 236K (land) > 6P > 63214K~412P

 

Now this could just be me sucking since I'm new to this game, but it seems you have to pay really close attention to your distance from the corner to make this combo work. Depending on how close you are when you do the first J. H > air mattress, you have to tell on the fly whether you need to neutral jump or forward jump to get the J. SD to connect. If you're too close/they hit the wall too low it seems like you can't connect a J. SD at all; when this happens the only option I could come up with was to skip the second rep and go straight into the ender (But I guess in that scenario you've still got them in the corner and save yourself 25% tension).

 

I've no problems getting the 6P> suzuran ~ zakuro ender on Ino but against Justice all kinds of weird stuff happens. When I'm facing towards the corner and do 6P, 5P comes out but it hits Justice while she's behind me (at least that's what it looks like). Trying to do 6P as if I was the one in the corner doesn't connect either. Haven't tried it against other characters yet. Any tips?

 

EDIT: After talking with some GG players, reading more of this thread, watching some match vids and spending more time in training mode I have a bit better understanding. I guess a lot of combos in GG are just more character/distance specific than what I'm used to. New question then; if I land 2K > 6P > 623P > J.SD frc, air dash > J.H > air 236k close to the corner and still have another 25% meter to spend, what should I follow up with? Or should I go for a completely different combo route?

[Hellmonkey]

Hi Marble, welcome to the Baiken forum, glad to see another player here!  Sorry for the somewhat delayed response.

Indeed as you have figured out Baiken's combos are very specific based on how far they begin from the corner.  There is no straightforward answer to your question about having an additional 25% meter, but I will point out some of the fundamentals that might help understand the trade-offs in that situation.

I would like to point out first of all that just because you have 25% doesn't mean you should blow it on a combo.  Particularly for characters with more health (i.e. lower damage modifier such as Robo-Ky), you might want to save that meter for a full combo if you land a hit after your knock-down (this situation is known as okizeme, or wake-up game).  The damage you get from a reset into a full combo is significantly more than the small damage you tack on at the end of your combo.  Furthermore, your meter gain is shunted for a while after using an RC or FRC, so that is another good reason not to throw them in unnecessarily. 

If you do want to blow that extra meter, the easiest solution is to find out which moves with low GB- you can throw in your combo.  Particularly, 6H, j.D, 5H, j.H, and tatami are all great to use, and the full chart can be found in her frame data.  For example, after landing near the corner you could add a rep with 6H j.D FRC airdash j.H j.tatami, but as you have noticed the side-switching can be tricky so you may have to jump forward or backwards, or adjust the combo timing as fits to ensure a knockdown.  The exact timing and best move to use can be character specific due to differing weights.

Generally it is a good idea to do a j.K jc j.H j.tatami repetition when available because it is free damage for zero meter. Typically a meterless option is your best bet in order to save that meter for a new combo, safe guard cancels, faultless defense to push them away and air-block, or even a super to make your killing blow unburstable.

[SIne]

Uh, how do you land 2k,5S,5H Tatami frc iad j.tatami consistantly. i read the other threads how to do it but the iad j.tatami tends to whiff . I figure im doing it too slow, but if i do it faster i get the tatami, the airdash but no j.tatami,perhaps its my input? I do kire tatami as 412369876 ...

[Solid Gold Wall]

236956 is the input for kire tatami. there has to be as short of a delay between the frc and the kire tatami as possible. try starting the motion for the kire tatami before doing the frc, not after. i think this is one of her toughest things to do in +R, so you're definitely not alone in having trouble with it.

[halfgorilla]

Yeah I've been able to do this maybe 1/10 of the time using the suggestions on this forum - could someone who is able to this semi-consistently land this walk us through your inputs? e.g. at approximately what point in 236K - 236956K are you FRCing?

[Hellmonkey]

You can try holding K and FRCing with PSH in one motion.  Ultimately it is just about finding a comfortable timing that feels natural.

[Marble]

Cheers for the reply Hellmonkey. I was more asking because I was trying out a lot of different combos in order to get a better feel for Baiken. I don't feel it's a great combo in a practical sense, the 25% tension version does only slightly more damage than your no meter BnB. In general, comboing in GG is way harder than any other fighter I've played because the character/distance/screen position variables are insane. I'm in awe at how Maruken and Kuni manage to do it so well.

[Hellmonkey]

You're absolutely right about the difficulty but that is part of the beauty of the game.  The other area of great depth in GG is blocking correctly, which is almost a game in and of itself.

It takes practice to make comboing natural, but the good news is that once you know the rules of movement and hitboxes it comes very naturally.  GG is known for having a sharp skill curve that separates new players from experienced ones and the heavy execution combo system is one of the main reasons.  It is still worth learning because of how fun it is to play or watch at a higher level.  The game allows for ad lib optimized combos and unique situations (based on positioning, meters, and resets) frequently which makes it more interesting than many other fighters IMO.

[Shinjin]

I completely agree with Hellmonkey <3

Also, I thought I might as well post the link to my new Baiken combo video here. (The Videos-forum in the Media Centre is jam-packed with stuff.) There are however only a few basic combos in this one. If people are interested I could upload some variants of the very damaging [ xyz > 6HS jD > knockdown ] variants that you see in the beginning of the video. Without any proper editing then, of course. These combos can be utilized against a large part of the cast from anywhere semi-close to the corner with 25 % tension. You also open up to more and better okizeme-options than with combos that end with Zakuros.

Enjoy frc flying bacon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRvbPcJblew

 

Feel free to ask any questions <3

/Shinjin @Shinjinnnn

[Antaiseito]

Omg, this is so beautiful Shinjin <3

 

In comparison to that i can only do extremely basic stuff with Baiken..

but i want to agree, the combo system in GG is so much fun because of all the variations you can do depending on opponent/situation/height etc.

Much more fun then pressing combos blindly ^_^d

Feels so good when you start changing combos on the fly during a match depending on the opponent.

 

As someone who only played a bit of AC+ i hope Xrd Baiken will be based on +R, her options seem so much fun here.

[ashxu]

Now that the game has been out for quite awhile and it's on Steam, which one of the combos are BnBs? I only see one mid screen that starts off of 2K and it doesn't work on light characters. Someone recommended to me 2S cl.S 623P j.K j.S j.D but that doesn't work on some lights either.

[Zida]

Baiken, and honestly +R in general, aren't so much about BnBs as they are about getting damage off of weird confirms, so try to get a really good feel for all of Baiken's  verbs in any given situation rather than fishing for a jab into BnB like some games (or characters).  This means that some of the combos in Shinjin's video above are actually more useful than you might think and could all be used feasibly in matches.

That said, here are some easy "BnB" Corner Combos that should help you get the concept of how Baiken's combo flow works: (These are by no means "optimized", but they work on nearly every character, give you a hard knockdown or an extension, and are easy)

• (2K 5S) 2D 236K 2D j.S j.D frc a.d. j.H 236K (land, opponent crosses up)  6P 63214K 412P (Requires 25 meter)
• (2K 5S) 2D 236K 2D j.P j.K (double jump) j.H 236K (land, opponent crosses up) 6P 63214K 412P (Requires 0 meter)
• Grab towards corner -> run forward 5s j.P -> one of the above two air combos

 

The above combos work on pretty much the entire cast.  For the first combo, on heavier characters, you may want to throw in a j.P before the j.S and maybe even another one afterwards to carry them a little higher and ensure that you will land the hard knockdown ender. This will hurt your damage a lot due to scaling, but hard knockdowns are worth it.

 

Midscreen is a little more hairy because +R Baiken generally needs a corner for damage.  This means that your objective should be to launch your opponent in the air (Youshijin -> 6P is good for this) and j.P j.S j.D frc a.d. towards the corner before following up with something more damaging or a hard knockdown.  The sad thing is that 6P will scale the hell out of your combos.  This is where all of the good stuff in Shinjin's combo video comes in although it is a bit more difficult.

 

 

As far as neutral game goes, there are two somewhat difficult things every Baiken player needs to learn.

• Kire Tatami: This is basically an instant air dash Tatami that comes out as fast as possible.  The input is 236956K.  That is an ugly looking input, so to break it down, input 236 like you are doing a tatami, then continue up to 9.  Let your stick go back to 5 (neutral), and press 6 like you would for an instant air dash.  Then very quickly press K to complete the tatami input.  
• Instant Overhead TK'd Youzansen Into Combo: I end up using a lot of meter for combos in +R compared to AC, so I use this a lot less than I used to, but it's still excellent for keeping up the pressure.  There are two inputs for TK Youzansen.  I find that the easier way is 6321473S, but this makes you lose any forward running momentum, so sometimes you will want to use 623696S instead.  After learning how to TK youzansen on command, you'll need to learn to follow up from it.  The easiest way to do it is to input 236 and then RC Youzansen with any three buttons that include kick.  When you lift your hand off the buttons, you will negative edge the tatami and can then easily follow up with a combo.

 

Bonus info:

• Always play against your opponent and not their character, especially when it comes to alpha counters.  Players who know the matchup will expect them, which means it's your job to take advantage of their expectations.
• Baiken has a short ground throw range.  You cannot throw break if you are out of your throw range.  That said, throws are still a really good tool in your arsenal, so this doesn't mean you should never use them.
• Don't abuse j.H in neutral too much.  Bad players will take it and let you get free pressure, but good players will instant block it and punish you with whatever they please.
• On counterhit or on most crouching characters, 2S combos into tatami, making it excellent for punishing people who like to press too many buttons.
• Zakuro punishes all but the most perfect safejumps.  Use it, love it, and make others hate it.
• Baku is generally a better option than Sakura->frc because it comes out faster and costs the same meter if you do not use a followup.
• Triple tatami is the only thing that makes the Justice matchup not 9-1. (I exaggerate, but seriously.  You will lose to a good justice player if you don't save meter for triple tatami.)
• Good meaties: Drop a tatami on their head.  Seriously.  Just do it.  Alternatively, 6K is great as a meaty or as a frametrap.

A lot of this info is regurgitated from various Baiken guides, but hopefully it will serve you well being all in one place.  
 

EDITED: Fixed the combo starter to actually start with a low.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Zida

[ashxu]

Yeah cheers for that, I know there's character specific stuff but the problem was I suppose it wasn't very neatly categorized.

 

Anyway I found an entirely universal BnB. Not optimized but if you just need something for simple damage then may aswell:

 

2K 6P 623P j.P j.S j.D

 

Works on everyone but they can air tech at the very end. On some characters omitting the j.P works and gives you oki. (I assume you can then do IAD Tatami to force them to block into a mix up)

 

 

 

 

Also why 2P starter in those combos? They don't work with 2K and 2P isn't a low.

Edited May 31, 2015 by ashxu

[Tong]

You might want to do:

2K> 6P> 623P> 6P> Suzuran>> Zakuro, instead.

Better damage and gives you better oki options.

[Zida]

The 2P was supposed to be 2K.  Sorry about that!  I was basically just trying to say that you can start out with anything that gatlings into a sweep or just hitconfirm from a sweep, which is a really good option in neutral.
 

Also, like Tong says, try to learn combos with hard knockdowns if possible.  That said, Baiken actually has some pretty strong tech bait options.  Kire tatami, air throw, or even a simple j.S can catch a lot of air tech options if you read which direction they are going.  

[ashxu]

Yeah, noted.

 

Also can Baiken combo off of IAD (Non CH) Tatami if the enemy is on the ground? I'm trying P/K on the ground to follow up but can't get anything.

[Tong]

Best you can do probably is try to use Kabari (41236HS).

[ashxu]

How do you do IAD Tatami? I can't seem to get it. Yesturday I could do a few but now I can only do one or two. I managed to take a screen capture of me doing it to look at the inputs in slow motion and it seems like you can WAY overshoot it and it will still work?

 

I literally did this and got it:

 

Is it just speed of inputting it that gets people or how accurate the input is?

 

 

Edit: I sort of got it. Speed + returning to neutral is key. I can't get it every time still (and this is only P1 side lmao) but I can get it sometimes now rather than not at all.

[ilitirit]

Is there a name for kara-canceling j.D into air specials, and how useful is it with Baiken?  The momentum of the j.D appears to be transferred to the move she's kara-canceling into.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ64UM7gU3U

[Hellmonkey]

Would you even be able to combo afterwards?  IIRC you will keep the landing recovery of j.D, and j.D can't be used close enough to ground to get a lowest tatami for quicker recovery anyways, not really sure when using that would be a great choice.  Maybe for baiting a throw, but j.H, 6K, lots of other options might still be better.

There is the option select throw using j.D cancel though, 4H>D>FD.  Same issue with the landing recovery but you can nullify that with a jump cancel.  Not nearly as good as Reload throw OS.

[daniel_dx]

So I was trying to find an easier mid screen BnB for Baiken and found that 6HS, j.S, j.D after yoshijin do more damage, give a knockdown and is easier to confirm than 6P Kabari shenanigans. Is the Kabari-zakuro combo used more because the screen position?

 

 

[Hellmonkey]

Screen position for following it up, and you might want to note the tension gain as well.  If you've used your meter for an RC or FRC recently keep in mind the meter gain will be nerfed for a while.

[Woocash]

How do you do air Tatami FRC into an air dash? I'm struggling to perform this, I'm trying something like 66 then FRC, but I can't get it.

[pikapika212]

Dunno if anyone found this yet, but apparently, when i try against Pot, 2k c.s 2d 236k frc IAD jHS near the corner, if done correctly with pot close to ground while hitting the wall, makes pot stand in neutral. I guess it's similar to Chipp's Grab to c.S I think

 

From my testing it seems, the opponent must hit the wall low enough to the gorund followed up by j.HS before the can tech out, if done too late, you get black beat, if done right, you get red beat.

Further testing, if done right and you can continue the combo, it seems even with red beat, it turn to black beat if u do an ground attack and it seems they can tech out but never do with the CP set on forward tech. if you launch them the "you can tech out" part goes away.

Seems it only work's on heavy character cept ABA, though probbaly cuz her werid hurt box. Robo Ky, and Johnny

Well, it seems the only requirements are, after the tatami, they must hit the wall and be low on the ground when u hit them with j.HS. not 100% but it black beats as if u were hitting the opponent if they were on the ground so damage becomes small? I only got like 1 succesful combo and only because I removed front tech.

 

Well, it seems that all it requires is if your opponent hits the wall while near the ground, I presume nay hit trigger going back at neutral from the ground since j.s worked