[GGAC+R] Baiken - Combo Thread and Technical discussion

[Zida]

With the j.d untechable time nerf, do dustloops work at all now? Is j.d still a near-guaranteed hard-knockdown?

I'm really worried with the combos I'm seeing in match videos, as they don't usually lead into a hard-knockdown for oki. Perhaps the players in the videos I've seen are simply dropping combos.

[kaeru]

With the j.d untechable time nerf, do dustloops work at all now? Is j.d still a near-guaranteed hard-knockdown?

I'm really worried with the combos I'm seeing in match videos, as they don't usually lead into a hard-knockdown for oki. Perhaps the players in the videos I've seen are simply dropping combos.

j.D doesn't guarantee knockdown at all anymore, i'm afraid.

also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avTUE8g0l8U&feature=player_detailpage#t=215s

interesting meterless mid screen combo potential

CH 2K > 6P > 623P, 2HS, 6P then tried to kabari

Probably could've also done 6P > 63214K~412P ender for knockdown, but im not 100% sure if it would work, it just seems that it should. Reluctant to add it to first post, but it seems really simple and easy meterless knockdown midscreen.

In the same match:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avTUE8g0l8U&feature=player_detailpage#t=191s

an attempt at a max damage mid screen combo, starting with 6HS

6HS > 2D > 236K (FRC), 23696K (kire tatami), 41236HS, 6HS > 2D > j.P - then j.K whiffed, but he was going for j.K > dj.HS, dj.236K most likely. Worth exploring !

Edited April 3, 2013 by kaeru

[Tong]

6HS > 2D > 236K (FRC), 23696K (kire tatami), 41236HS, 6HS > 2D > j.P - then j.K whiffed, but he was going for j.K > dj.HS, dj.236K most likely. Worth exploring !

Lol, they want us to workout our fingers for decent damage now?

And ABA's air hitbox is pretty wonky

Edited May 25, 2013 by Tong

[kaeru]

I'm kind of like the idea of using kire tatami for stage carry. It's a nice alternative since j.D FRC won't cut it anymore.. and it doesn't cost meter !

also.. ABA is quite the wonky one indeed XD

[onemic]

With the j.D nerf, are all of Baikens combo's in +R based on FRC's or CH's now? Does the general gatling > tatami > sj.PSD still net a guaranteed knockdown? I'm asking this as a beginner Baiken player.

[kaeru]

With the j.D nerf, are all of Baikens combo's in +R based on FRC's or CH's now? Does the general gatling > tatami > sj.PSD still net a guaranteed knockdown? I'm asking this as a beginner Baiken player.

I would suggest watching a few of the vids in the video section to see this yourself, but tatami doesn't launch anymore. it blows back and wallbounces (mid screen). If they reach the wall early you can pick up the wall bounce, or you can kabari to drag them back to you from the wall bounce. I'm not sure if her tensionless mid screen combo works on everyone or only some of the cast.

[onemic]

Anyone know if there's a shortcut for getting Suzuran~412P to come out as quickly as possible? From the combos I've seen this used in, Baiken doesn't even go into her running animation for Suzuran before the 412p comes out.

[Hellmonkey]

You can do it very quickly just by doing 63214K12P, it's not too bad at all.

I had a little bit of time in training mode so far. For heavier characters you can go into j.K fairly early in any combo close to the corner and turn it into j.K jc j.H j.tatami loop to some degree. Old dustloop is gone altogether.

Many combos can easily end with j.H j.tatami > crossup into corner > 6P suzuran zakuro. You can also 2H to drag them back into the corner and 6P, but I found sometimes you get 2 or 3 hits depending on height and the timing is a bit strict. You do get an actual corner knockdown though so it's pretty nice.

It seems like all of the highest damage combos will be using 6H now, but there are a lot of high damage bnbs using only 5H/j.H/tatami and not having to go for 6H.

Her dust combo is a lot harder/different now, I have a few variations that work but light characters seem really hard to tensionless into knockdown.

[youcanwonder]

Maruken baiken does some crazy combos in the mikado dights..ill see if I can find the link and post it. Someone will have to break it down since idk any of the move names except for tatami lol (super sad since ive been playin since xx lmao)

[youcanwonder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dCPcSrRc38 (29 mins) he does good stuff here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM0CisdK4_Y (1:19mins) this one I dont think is him..but has some good combos at times

Edited August 9, 2013 by youcanwonder

[Vlad7779311]

Did the combos on the 1st page change or are they still possible to do in +R? What's a good beginner BnB for someone who's still trying to get acquainted with Baiken and GG in general?

[Stoneroth]

Did the combos on the 1st page change or are they still possible to do in +R? What's a good beginner BnB for someone who's still trying to get acquainted with Baiken and GG in general?

Something like this is probably a good place to start. Midscreen, meterless.

2K 6P(2) 623P j.K dj.H j.236K land j.D

[Star-Demon]

The invincibility on Ouren can be combined with fullscreen suzuran to get past a lot of full screen behavior from testament, Axl, and Dizzy. I want to try this out next week.

I'm still not sure which hitbox is better for the corner sitaution that would shut down old YSJ - now we have YSJ and Zankuro (Zakuro?) to choose from, and it's not clear which hitbox is better or which move is a better option, since Zakuro is a guard cancel and you risk getting hit on the startup for 1 active frame.

This is the worst situation because the opponent has the best chance of beatig or avoiding GCs in that spot, but Baiken gets such good corner carry that they really need ot do it right...hmmmm...

Sakura lost its invincibility but I'd like to see that huge air hit. I wonder what kind of reward you can get.

85% proration - is this number still the higher the better? I keep forgetting if you lose 85% or the next hit is 85%

FB tatami CH is godlike. 25 meter starter that will blow up more mid to full screen bad behavior Baiken normally couldn't hope to reach.

DISRUPTAHHH

Edited August 10, 2013 by Star-Demon

[onemic]

You can do it very quickly just by doing 63214K12P, it's not too bad at all.

I had a little bit of time in training mode so far. For heavier characters you can go into j.K fairly early in any combo close to the corner and turn it into j.K jc j.H j.tatami loop to some degree. Old dustloop is gone altogether.

Many combos can easily end with j.H j.tatami > crossup into corner > 6P suzuran zakuro. You can also 2H to drag them back into the corner and 6P, but I found sometimes you get 2 or 3 hits depending on height and the timing is a bit strict. You do get an actual corner knockdown though so it's pretty nice.

It seems like all of the highest damage combos will be using 6H now, but there are a lot of high damage bnbs using only 5H/j.H/tatami and not having to go for 6H.

Her dust combo is a lot harder/different now, I have a few variations that work but light characters seem really hard to tensionless into knockdown.

That shortcut doesn't seem to work for me as the 412p move never comes out doing it that way unless I go back to neutral after inputting 63214K and do 412P instead. Looking at the log at on the training screen I'm doing 63214K12P correctly too, but nothing comes out after the command dash

[Hellmonkey]

You should input your 63214K during the hit stop of your move, then do a timed 412P after you start moving (suzuran must begin and you start running before you can cancel into a guard cancel).

The timing for suzuran > guard cancel is important because it lets you mawarikomi (k cancel) to cross them up quickly when they are grounded, or suzuran > ouren to cross up, suzuran > ouren FRC to fly across the screen, suzuran > baku for CH or gimmicks etc.

Make sure you tap the button you press for the guard cancel because you get two inputs (it can be negative edged)

Edited August 10, 2013 by Hellmonkey

[onemic]

Did the combos on the 1st page change or are they still possible to do in +R? What's a good beginner BnB for someone who's still trying to get acquainted with Baiken and GG in general?

Here are some combos Ive seen top jpn players do

All are universal/anywhere combos:

(5p)>2k>5S>j.D – 75dmg *knockdown*

2K>6P(2)>623P>dash 6P>Kabari>Tetsuzansen – 92dmg *air tech mixup*

2K>6P(2)>623P>dash 6P>command dashxx412p – 94 dmg *knockdown*

2k>6p(2)>623P>j.K>JC>j.H>tatami>j.SD – 118dmg *+ corner carry/ - reset to neutral*

From the combos Ive been practicing the last one seems by far the hardest to do(at least for me) and based on the situation afterwards(the j.D will push them far away from you so you're both back at neutral) it seems much more situational to use than the other three as its use seems to be limited to a guaranteed carry to the corner or a guanteed kill as you get no oki afterwards and your pressure gets reset if you're too far from the corner for the combo to push them there. The command dashxx412p combo seems to be the most practical since it does decent damage and you get a knockdown. Of course I'm a beginner Baiken/GG player too, so I may be talking out of my ass here if any other vet Baikens wanna chime in.

It also seems the 2K/5K/5P>6P(2) is the new bnb baiken hitconfirm as it leads into almost all her combos and if blocked gives you plenty of options for mixups/pressure.

Basic jump in combo:

j.PPK>land>j.k>j.H>tatami – 92dmg

- if in the corner you can add to it:

(corner) j.PPK>land>j.k>j.H>tatami(crossup)>6P(2)>command dashxx412p – 129 dmg *knockdown*

You should input your 63214K during the hit stop of your move, then do a timed 412P after you start moving (suzuran must begin and you start running before you can cancel into a guard cancel).

The timing for suzuran > guard cancel is important because it lets you mawarikomi (k cancel) to cross them up quickly when they are grounded, or suzuran > ouren to cross up, suzuran > ouren FRC to fly across the screen, suzuran > baku for CH or gimmicks etc.

Make sure you tap the button you press for the guard cancel because you get two inputs (it can be negative edged)

Thanks for the tip, I'm getting used to it now

Edited August 11, 2013 by onemic

[Hellmonkey]

combos (Faust as main test dummy)

note: land after every j.tatami in the combo.

zakuro from 6p: 6p 63214 K 412 P. can buffer the suzuran during 6P, hold 4, then 412P on time.

1) 2k 5s 5h tatami frc iad tatami 6h tatami j.k jc j.h j.tatami 6p zakuro (fa: 183)

note: to do tatami FRC iad tatami do your FRC with P-S-H, then 236956K (hold PSH to avoid getting 41236H)

note: you can stay in front of some characters by doing forward jump j.K jc neutral jump j.H j.tatami near the corner (or even back jump j.K depending on the spacing), allowing you to easily 6p zakuro with a corner knockdown.

2) 5d fd j.K (impossible dust) jc j.H j.tatami j.k jc j.h j.tatami 6p zakuro (fa: 148)

note: with certain spacing (and against light characters) you can just do jump forward j.h j.tatami after your first falling j.h j.tatami. (no j.k jc part)

e.g. 5d fd j.k jc j.h j.tatami j.h j.tatami 6p zakuro (di: 166, br: 155)

or

5d fd j.k (land) j.k j.h j.tatami j.k j.h j.tatami 6p zakuro (te: 142)

3) j.tatami iad j.SPK j.K jc j.H j.tatami j.K jc j.H j.tatami 6p zakuro (fa: 174)

corner:

4) 2k 5s 5h tatami 5s j.s j.d frc ad j.H j.tatami 6k 2h 6p zakuro (fa: 175)

5) for characters you can ground tatami -> 5h tatami in the corner (e.g. johnny) :

2k 5s 5h tatami 5h tatami j.k jc j.h j.tatami 6k 2h 6p zakuro (jo: 172)

2k 6p(2) 6k tatami 5h tatmi j.k jc j.h j.tatami 6p zakuro (jo: 148)

You can also be fancy and throw in j.tatami FRC -> jc j.H or some other tricks, I don't use j.tatami frc much but it's much more useful now.

corner throw combos:

lights/mids : tatami j.pk jc j.h j.tatami 6p zakuro (br: 123, kl: 122) 40% meter.

mids : tatami 2d j.k jc j.h j.tatami 6p zakuro (so: 126, ky: 128, po: 108, ve: 132)

big hitbox: 5h tatami j.k jc j.h j.tatami 6p zakuro (sl: 123, fa: 132)

huge hitbox: tatami 5h tatami j.k jc j.h j.tatami 6p zakuro (jo: 138, po: 119)

ouren CH combo:

ouren CH 6p kabari 6k 2h (cross up) 6p zakuro

reverse side combos:

iad j.spk kabari (slide behind) run 2k 6p zakuro

sakura CH run 6p youshijin 2h 5k 5s j.pk jc j.h j.tatami 6p zakuro

one option for combos is 5h tatami FRC j.h tatami in the corner.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Hellmonkey

[Hellmonkey]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21380966

watch from 8:35~ for loop with j.k j.h j.tatami in corner.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Hellmonkey

[youcanwonder]

Never could log into nico

[Stoneroth]

Never could log into nico

You can use this without an account http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html

Also, thanks for the combos Hellmonkey

...now to grind 236956K

[Agendine]

How are people getting Tatami FRC IAD tatami to combo? I'm definitely inputting 236956 K, and as far as I can tell getting it out as quickly as possible, but it still black beats? I read Hellmonkey's comment on FRCing with PSH, but is that to allow buffering the input before the FRC somehow, because that would take some serious practice from where I'm sitting.

Also, I haven't seen anyone post it, but there's definitely some crazy hijinks to be had for low meter with:

6P 623P (j) jK (I use jPK for easier timing) jc jh j236k -> land j jS jD FRC AD jH j236K land 6p 63214K412P

Also, this combos with starting on 2K, which seems useful.

Regardless, it seems like Baiken went from being one of the low-execution-barrier characters to one of the higher. I legitimately feel like I don't know how to play my character anymore, so I'm fiending on practice mode.

Also, thanks to those who've been posting here for a while. I've been lurking for a long time and utilizing the knowledge base, and it's always been a huge help.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Agendine

[youcanwonder]

Ive hit the tatami frc iad tatami a few times. Granted I do not use the psh to frc..I do ksh. From what I can see it helps to do 2d into tatami. Puts them in air a little more. But the frc into the iad tatami is almost instant. At least from the times ive hit it. One of my draw backs I get though is the the 236H lol. If my info will help u..probably not..however like I said the frc into the iad appears to be almost instant..might help if u start to buffer the motion as ur doin the frc.

[Hellmonkey]

How are people getting Tatami FRC IAD tatami to combo? I'm definitely inputting 236956 K, and as far as I can tell getting it out as quickly as possible, but it still black beats? I read Hellmonkey's comment on FRCing with PSH, but is that to allow buffering the input before the FRC somehow (...)

Yes. Start the motion before FRC.

[Star-Demon]

I used to practice back and forth Kire tatamis with FRC, but I never thought it'd be useful someday because the movement is even more dangerous than the actual move.

Forward Kire FRC is needed for combos, now? That doesn't sound pleasant to me, but I know I can do it.

[SHINIGAMI_mkl]

Actually its ground tatami FRC, then kire tatami. And by doing the kire tatami (stand alone or otherwise) as fast as possible you shouldn't get an FRC point before the landing.