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Nehle

AC+R: Strategy Talk

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Placeholder for general Dizzy strats

This wiki post is still pretty relevant you guys!!

Let's keep the talk in this thread to Dizzy strategies in +R, from specific situations to general strategies and matchups. For starters I think we just list whatever we can pick up in the videos before we can actually get hands-on experience

Edited by Nehle

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Shoutouts to the Dizzy wiki.

My thoughts/observations on some AC+R stuff that I have seen in some match vids:

AC+R Dizzy zoning/ranged stuff looks to have some great potential, especially with the new additions to Dizzy's arsenal.

FB Spear stuffs have been showcased quite a bit in some match vids.

In most cases, it's often utilized as a quick, long-range punish attack against an opponent on the other side of the screen.

Other times, it's used alongside other summons to compliment offense since it tracks to some extent.

It appears to have good projectile integrity against some single-hit projectiles (like KY's SE), though I have not yet seen it go up against other projectiles that have more 'mass' (hit potential).

IIRC, FB Spear can also be FRCed as of the 3rd loketest, though I haven't seen that utilized yet.

D Ice Spike looks to be a great, long-ranged attack, especially if it's utilized to 'snipe' an opponent that is hanging back on the other side of the screen and has already committed to doing a stationary attack from long-range, or you happen to catch them off-guard instead.

I think there will be scenarios in which the opponent expects that you will use a D Ice Spike to counter their long-ranged attack and they will position themselves accordingly so that if/when you miss, it will prompt them to punish you via rushdown, unless you FRC it to shorten recovery, or the attack happens to be covered by other summons at that moment.

Wallstick stuffs (or rather, the threat of wallstick) is an interesting addition to the zoning/anti-air game with summons because an opponent will want to be more careful in the air against Laser Fish Summons and the various other summons that are likely to be active as well.

If the laser hit-confirms for a wallstick, you should likely have a combo opportunity of sorts, unless your opponent is somehow able to tech, or you don't react to the opportunity in time.

Otherwise, if you aren't close enough to a wall to get the wallstick, you will only get the knockback instead, which likely could give you a KD and positioning of your opponent closer to the corner. You might even have an opportunity for okizeme after the KD, if applicable.

I haven't seen much in the way of auto-exploding bubble stuffs yet.

I'm hoping to see some summon setups that cover the bubble until it auto-explodes.

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2K 5H now legit combo vs standing characters.

So, it can be faster startup on 5H or lvlup on 2K. In any case it very good change

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Idk about Ju matchup, but 7:3 is very horrible matchup.Iirc there is no 7:3 matchup in vanilla AC, and the other matchup that I mention is previously Dizzy bad matchup, Ed for example... Used to be 6:4 for Ed... Nerf trailler sure hit him hard.

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Iirc there is no 7:3 matchup in vanilla AC

May vs I-No? Eddie/Test vs Pot? Maybe not quite 3-7 bad for Pot, but close.

D ice spike and especially FB spear mean that Dizzy can control a LOT more of the field with fast projectiles, so she can be more proactive in her zoning. Murdering Justice makes sense in light of this, IMO, though the matchup will probably get closer as players get more time with Justice. Testament's abare and defense were both nerfed significantly with the changes to H EXE Beast, so he either needs a knockdown to get set up or to burn meter on FB skull to gain an advantage in neutral...almost makes the matchup a reversal of how it was in AC, when EXE harass could keep Dizzy from summoning in neutral. Can't say as much for the others, but I'd guess Eddie, HOS, and ABA have harder times getting their momentum started with Dizzy's upgraded zoning and footsies (from what I recall, they all got stuff to make them scarier when they're already juiced and in your face, but they still have to work to get into that situation to begin with).

Not saying I completely agree with the numbers (plus, you know, standard "first month matchup chart isn't gospel" disclaimer), but I can see some logic in them. Also, I'm quite a noob with Dizzy, so don't put too much faith in whatever I say *laughs* .

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over the years I have frequently heard Zappa vs Johnny is a really horrible matchup and possibly the secret worst matchup in the game that just doesn't get played that often.

on topic, I'm wondering if you could do FB daggers and then Imperial Ray for a beefier pseudo-unblockable setup, that would be silly and awesome

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Dagger unblockable works because her recovery is well before the dagger shoots out.

In vanilla AC by the end, many top players thought some matches got as bad as 8-2! This game looks MUCH more balanced.

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DH Fish Summon (blockstring summon scenario)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrhI7aoblW0#t=2m40s

2P > 2K > 5H > 214D~H > opponent reprisal via rushdown > (D Fish bite 'stagger') > ...

... > dash c.S > 2S > (H Laser) > 5H > 2D > ...

  • blockstring summon scenario with K Fish Summon, for comparison.
  • Both blockstring summon scenarios take place with the opponent being within close-range of Dizzy as a result of some action; post air combo positioning on the ground (DH Fish Summon), opponent moving into close-range (K Fish Summon).
  • This could be a Fish Summon scenario that is likely to be dependent on matchup-specific experience, in regard to it's usage.

Edited by Kurokun

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http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/guilty-gear-xx-accent-core-plus-r-new-update-for-ggxx-coming-to-arcade-psn-xbla-and-now-vita.154629/page-29#post-7957963 - original untranslated match-up ranking post

http://puu.sh/1Vhdw - original match-up ranking chart

http://i46.tinypic.com/2pyvuzc.png - translated match-up ranking chart

Credit to the following for info posts/chart translations: Mr. X, OneSanitarium, tataki

2pyvuzc.png

【 SSS(140.0<)】

Dizzy(140.0)

【 SS 135.0~139.5)】

Millia (138.0)

Zappa(137.0)

【 S (130.0~134.5)】

Chipp(130.5)

【 A (125.0~129.5)】

Faust (129.5)

Eddie(127.0)

Order Sol (125.0)

【 B+ (120.0~124.5)】

Jam(123.5)

Johnny(122.0)

Axl (121.5)

【 B- (115.0~119.5)】

Slayer (119.5)

Ky (119.0)

Baiken (118.5)

Robo Ky (117.5)

Bridget (117.0)

Anji (116.0)

I-no (115.5)

【 C (110~114.5)】

Venom (114.5)

Sol (113.5)

Testament (113.0)

Potemkin (113.0)

A.b.a (111.5)

【 D (105.0~109.5)】

May (109.0)

Justice (108.0)

【 E (104.5>)】

Kliff (102.5)

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So where is that matchup chart from? Is it just some random dude's opinions or does it actually carry some weight?

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Japanese BBS

http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/34742/1359069547/

It's more like "community tier list". She is S tier in almost every tier list for some reason.

People equate her to AC Millia with arguments like "K fish is FB disk but tensionless, someone delete Dizzy from the game"

Edited by Horokei

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Any idea how someone should get into Dizzy? She's fun as hell but I'm stumped. I know I have a LOT of reading material, but is there anything I should begin with?

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Check out the Dizzy page on the DL wiki for general info stuffs to get yourself started.

If you have any questions about her AC related stuffs (gameplay, okizeme, combos, etc), ask/post in the relevant AC topic threads.

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http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dizzy_(GGAC)#Strategy

General gameplay stuffs from AC are still relevant in +R.

Some things that Dizzy gained in +R:

  • more okizeme/mixup options with the change to K Fish Summon (multi-hit bite) and the addition of D Fish Summon (stagger on ground hit/heavy blockstun), which give ample time for followup combo stuffs if either Fish Summon hit-confirms
  • long-range attack options: D Ice Spike (full-screen), FB Homing Pike (multi-hit projectile)
  • variable/persistent threats with summons for zoning: Laser Fish Wallstick/knockback on aerial hit (S/H Fish Summon), auto-explode bubbles (P/K/S Bubbles, also FB Bubble)

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Glitch SP (PS) Fish Summon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7s7GEkUvFM#t=7m2s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7s7GEkUvFM#t=8m57s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7s7GEkUvFM#t=9m13s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7s7GEkUvFM#t=21m42s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7s7GEkUvFM#t=23m52s

Anyway, main improvement of this fish is a range of P Fish. It travels half screen forward like laser fish start-up animation and from this point can go remaining half screen forward or backward. Work better if opponent close to you and in the air, cuz laser follow up cover larger part of screen in that case/tracks better. And there is wallstick. ACR Fish is so broken. XD

Kazuki used it at 7:02, 8:57, 9:13, 21:42, 23:52. That is not all I think. I probably miss some.

7:02 - Kazuki used it after aircombo with j.D finisher. Probably to counter dives and other aggresive options of I-no after she recovers.

8:57 - 2rio jumps, Kazuki summons fish. 2rio probably seen laser animation and airdash in. P fish turns backward and bites his ass =)

9:13 - At corner. Kazuki summons it and does another summon. 2rio counter second summon and superjump forward to run away from laser/do a oki. P fish bite him at his landing. When he recovered, Dizzy already got up.

21:42 - 2rio jumps, Kazuki summons. 2rio does airdash over Dizzy and perform P Dive to stay in the air. S follow-up cathes him at recovery of P Dive.

23:52 - Same as at 7:02. But here 2rio decides to attack instead of run away.

So it's a fish Kazuki uses for anti-air defense and mixing it with other AA options.

It still a fish hard to utilize but it's much better than AC version.

Edited by Kurokun

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Oh right, something Severin wanted me to test out in Training mode for ACR, forgot to report it here:

Buffed hitbox of spear still doesn't hit crouching opponents on way up. Sorry but no changes there!

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It's SP Glitch Fish actually, not PS. Anyway, main improvement of this fish is a range of P Fish. It travels half screen forward like laser fish start-up animation and from this point can go remaining half screen forward or backward. Work better if opponent close to you and in the air, cuz laser follow up cover larger part of screen in that case/tracks better. And there is wallstick. ACR Fish is so broken. XD

Kazuki used it at 7:02, 8:57, 9:13, 21:42, 23:52. That is not all I think. I probably miss some.

7:02 - Kazuki used it after aircombo with j.D finisher. Probably to counter dives and other aggresive options of I-no after she recovers.

8:57 - 2rio jumps, Kazuki summons fish. 2rio probably seen laser animation and airdash in. P fish turns backward and bites his ass =)

9:13 - At corner. Kazuki summons it and does another summon. 2rio counter second summon and superjump forward to run away from laser/do a oki. P fish bite him at his landing. When he recovered, Dizzy already got up.

21:42 - 2rio jumps, Kazuki summons. 2rio does airdash over Dizzy and perform P Dive to stay in the air. S follow-up cathes him at recovery of P Dive.

23:52 - Same as at 7:02. But here 2rio decides to attack instead of run away.

So it's a fish Kazuki uses for anti-air defense and mixing it with other AA options.

It still a fish hard to utilize but it's much better than AC version.

Grammar kinda bad. I hope it's readable

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