AC+R: Strategy Talk

[Effenhoog]

Does it always keep the hit counter going when you throw a burst like that?

[Kurokun]

It looks that way, yes.

I went into training mode to test: 421S > (opponent burst) > jump > air throw

It resulted in the air throw registering on the hit counter after the 421S, (2 hits).

You could even follow-up after the air throw (post-throw combo stuffs), as well, if you felt inclined to do so.

[Effenhoog]

I'm slightly disappointed at the lack of potential melty blood combo enders

[zaeris]

my test as stated earlier lol

Combo trying to achieve 2hs kd -> fish D/HS -> IAD > S bubble> D bite (stagger)> land 2hs> air pike hold > bubble/HS beam hit -> wall stick > IAD j.hs> ]s[ > K/S bubble pop> land jump j.k j.s j.d.

for one your opponent is expecting a cross over iad set up,

in general on characters that can jump the set up will be caught by a lazer or d bite on air hit, what you want is a ground hit that catches jump start up frames or being very meaty.

characters that works with HS/D fish after 2hs

anji, axl, dizzy, i-no, jam, justice, may, slayer, testament

characters where HS doesnt work but D fish can (D fish as a lesser start up by 3 frames or something)

faust, baiken, kliff, millia,

characters where 2hs kd can be jump ( but will still be air hit or air blocked) by HS and D fish:

eddie, johnny, ky, order sol, potenkim, sol, venom and zappa.

unique character that has a very late wake up (HS fish works without delay, D fish needs Delay special cancel)

Chipp and ABA

character excluded due to special wake up (delay wake up) property:

Robo-ky and bridget ^^.

[Kurokun]

Good stuff, man.

If you have a chance, check out the 2nd post in the AC+R: Okizeme thread, which has a listing of various okizeme stuffs from match vids, besides the highlighted stuffs already in the thread.

IDK if the Fish Summon okizeme you posted up is already listed, but if it isn't, I'll add it in later.

Maybe try out some of the listed okizeme stuffs and let us Dizzy players know what's good? lol.

[zaeris]

Good stuff, man.

If you have a chance, check out the 2nd post in the AC+R: Okizeme thread, which has a listing of various okizeme stuffs from match vids, besides the highlighted stuffs already in the thread.

IDK if the Fish Summon okizeme you posted up is already listed, but if it isn't, I'll add it in later.

Maybe try out some of the listed okizeme stuffs and let us Dizzy players know what's good? lol.

ic, I've already gone through most of them I will let people judge for themselves later but I do recommend these one

KD Fish Summon (corner okizeme, hit-confirm scenario)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mr0PaR8nmw&t=10m21s

dash 214K~D > 5K > (K Fish bite) > ...

... > forward jump > falling j.H > land > c.S/2.k > (D Fish bite 'stagger') > ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mr0PaR8nmw&t=10m38s

dash 214K~D > backdash > (K Fish bite) > 421 > ...

... dash 2K > 2D > (D Fish bite) > IAD j.D > j.214K > ]S[ (bubble pop) > land > ...Use to bait throws, DP and Potenkim buster on wake up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mr0PaR8nmw&t=10m50s

dash 214K~D > 5K > (K Fish bite) > forward jump > falling j.H > ...

... > jump > rising j.P > (D Fish bite 'stagger') > falling j.H > land > c.S > ... (high chance of working in matches unless your opponent knows it in which you can substitute j.p with 2k instead, and when people have seen it still becomes a 50/50 guess

your fuzzy guard set up will be your best friend on kd since its the best mix up we have as dizzy and new D dish adds ton of damage and stagger which leads to 200~ damage on the cast into KD. In general KD fish mid screen and corner is the most solid with KK fish in corner being another solid and easy set up for lesser damage. issue with kd fish is being too close can lead to people to use DP or potenkim buster on you if you didn't have perfect timing with dash kd fkish on ice spike kd. All throws give you the perfect set up for KD fish if you choose not to do a follow up throw combo (which I recommend, unless you you want to use HD or dash kd)

dash 214K~D > forward jump > (K Fish bite) > falling j.2S > falling j.H > ...

... > jump > rising j.P > (D Fish bite 'stagger') > falling j.H > land > c.S >

A variant of the 3rd okizeme in case you want to achieve the same outcome but using it slightly different so your opponent doesn't remember its the same set up. Fuzzy guard doesnt work on zappa, kilff, may, baiken,

Edited August 24, 2013 by zaeris

[zaeris]

Another thing I was testing was the old AC corner 6p-> wall bounce into bubble loop if people remember, this time seeing if you can do it from a longer combo into D fish then into 6P ender for slight more damage but no KD ^^.

e.g.

dash 214K~D > 5K > (K Fish bite) > forward jump > falling j.H > ...

... > jump > rising j.P > (D Fish bite 'stagger') > land> dash 6P> 421> 9j.hs> 421]s[> j.214k/s> j.k> bubble pop> land> j.s j.d/j.hs.

testing results~ Characters where you can use 6p (e.g. 2k>6p/c.s>6p) as starters and extension to D fish stagger (D fish stagger > dash 6p) ender:

Bridget, Chipp, Faust, May, Millia, Potenkim, Testament, Zappa and Kiliff

characters where you can use 6p as starters but not as combo ender extension.

Baiken, Jam, Justice

[Effenhoog]

I don't see it used a lot, and there are certainly good reasons why, but HK fish seems pretty solid in the corner. It's also really easy to pick up as babby's first +R fish setup since it's so similar to traditional HP fish setups but better and easier to use, and not having to dashup summon makes it much easier to time your meaties properly.

For this setup I am using HK fish, meaty 2K > laser > 2K > 5S, if any of that hits then 5H > K fish bites > dashup 2K > 5H (or 5S) > 2D > icespike. If they are blocking then after the first 5S I do 2D and then IAD while the K fish bites for a mixup while they are locked down. Just like in AC you can substitute either of the 2Ks before and after the laser for a throw, and then obviously K fish gives you a really good mixup opportunity like always.

in addition to just being easier, one thing I really like about this setup is that because you are not dashing up for the summon and can instead dash in to hit with the tip of 2K, it starts with you positioned back a bit more and the fish is still on top of them so that it eats more DPs/reversals without you always having to specifically bait it out. If they don't try to DP you in the very beginning of the setup there aren't any more really good opportunities without instant blocking and being extremely precise with the timing

[zaeris]

well it is easier using h fish but the damage can be lack luster compare to anything using the d fish ender set up.

however it is preference but the D fish helps with easier fuzzy guard.

my favourite will be mid screen kd fish since it allows for iad back cross over jhs mix up, a better starter and mix up.

in general kd fish does require more precision probably one of the challenges.

[Effenhoog]

KD fish is also kind of hard to practice, at least for me, as it requires somehow programming the dummy to just block part of it so you can get used to hitconfirming or continuing the blockstring based on when they block/get hit.

If someone has a suggestion in that regard I would appreciate it as I am having a really hard time practicing it other than just busting it out in a real match and awkwardly trying to do stuff on the fly

[Dandy J]

just make the dummy block, and record a playback where they just hold d/b or whatever you would be preparing for and play it at the appropriate time. kind of a pain but its probably the best way to practice fuzzy setups

[zaeris]

Another fuzzy guard set up using a combination of 2hs KD on character specific on the list, and its not jump-able at any point.

Characters used on Millia/Slayer

2hs kd (c.S 5.hs 2hs corner)

=> HD fish -> tk K bubble -> AD -> lazer fish-> j.p j.p j.hs -> land -> rising j.p (fuzzy guard) -> D bite/k bubble pop -> land -> 421 -> (bubble loop/ 6hs/f.s ender).

this one uses the HD fish for fuzzy-> I havent tested it on ice spike kd, setting with having the computer on jump state. usually with all KD set up the opponent is unlikely to jump on wake up and will block a lazer fish however just having that option of a solid mix up does help.

Note -> j.p J.hs doesn't combo hence the damage will reset even if you combo before hand leaving the fuzzy into D bite being the start of a new combo (or j.hs landing). A good return I would say.

EDIT: With regards to KD fish, you can always reset your okizeme with a throw (e.g HK fish-> 2k-> lazer-> throw)-> and just run up and set KD fish without having to worry about timing, while you do lose out on extra throw damage, it does set it up easily.

Edited August 26, 2013 by zaeris

[Effenhoog]

has anyone messed with oki setups vs justice? She seems to wake up too fast for some of my usual KD and HK fish setups. Setups off throw and icespike FRC work but the corner icespike > dashup summon > meaty 2K/5K don't work and she can grab Dizzy out of the meaty attempt