GGXXAC+R Anji Mito final changes list

[Dream Maker]

I'm creating this list to clear things up because quite a lot of the reports from the loketests may still be considered as genuine changes while they actually have been rolled back or debunked with the release of the final version. In particular, many reports of nerfs during the last loketest like jD's increased landing recovery, 6K FRC removal or HS fuujin's hitbox weakening are actually not there in the final version. At the very least HS fuujin hitbox's decrease and jD's recovery increase are unnoticeable if they actually turn out to be true.

This is a list of changes from vanilla AC. It may still be incomplete and some elements may still be unsure but at least we'll have a comprehensive list to work with and to complete if necessary. Don't hesitate to tell me if you think something is wrong or missing.

Sources for the info : personal experience, Anji Mito strategy info site, JBBS Anji thread, GGXXAC+R guide

- All normal moves are now cancellable into other moves up to until the end of their recovery. Moves that originally aren't cancellable into anything like 3P DO NOT become cancellable with this change.

- 5P : Attack level up from 2 to 3, as a result air untechable time is also up from 14 to 16. Recovery increased from 6 to 8.

- 5S : Guard balance increased from 0 to 14. Hitbox reportedly better somehow (can now beat a lot of moves when used as a poke).

- 6S : The hitbox may have been increased a bit as some non Anji players described the move as more threatening than before somehow. Damage up from 30 to 34. Now gatling cancellable into 3K.

- 5HS : Now gatling cancellable into 6P and 6HS.

- 5D : GP frames changed from 4~12 to 4~18. Is now special cancellable although the window to cancel is pretty short (no late cancel possible). Startup went from 25 to 27F.

- 2P : Now gatling cancellable into 6HS.

- 2K : Now gatling cancellable into 6HS.

- 2S : Now gatling cancellable into 6HS.

- 2HS : Attack level up from 4 to 5. Frame advantage went up from +3 to +5 as a result. Now gatling cancellable into 5HS. 2HS, 5HS combos even on standing opponents.

- 2D : Range is extended forward by a noticeable amount.

- 6P : hitstun is increased by 2 frames on ground hit.

- 3K : attack level up from 3 to 4. As a result, frame disadvantage went from -4 to -1. Damage up from 20 to 38. Startup went down from 20 to 19. Is now a low attack. 80% prorate added. Doesn't float on normal hit anymore but wall bounces on counter hit. Hitbox extended to hit enemies close to Anji easier.

- 3S : 3S cancel frames changed from 8~9 to 6~8. Frame advantage went to +1 from -3. Doesn't cancel into itself anymore. Guard point frames changed from 5~10 to 1~27. Hitbox behind Anji removed. Now moves forward a bit but only after the 3S cancel frames.

- 6HS : now has a base proration of 80%. Recovery changed from 18F to 25F. Invincible to throws on frames 14~20. Startup increased by 1F, went from 20F to 21F. Untechable time reduced from 28F to 19F. FRC timing is moved to right before the move hits, frames 17~20. Now cancellable into special moves.

- jP : hitbox is reportedly stronger. Very good anti air.

- FB shitsu : can now fly further to about half a stage distance, travel speed also increased.

- HS Fuujin : now has 80% of initial prorate.

- K Kai : bounce seems to be a bit lower than before. After the FRC Anji is now automatically facing the opponent. Auto jump install added.

- Shin ichishiki (fuujin P followup) : projectiles aren't overhead anymore and can now be blocked low. Their travel speed is however slower, which makes them easier to followup with a air dash assuming the opponent blocks them. Landing recovery is decreased.

- FB rin : guard point frames are increased from 2~10 to 2~20.

- Rin : is now an overhead. Is now +0 on block up from -3.

- Aoi : the last hit wallsticks but only on CH. Startup went up from 4 to 11F but as a result invincibility is 1~11F up from 1~4F. Lower body invincibility is also changed from 5~13 to 12~23. Doesn't float the opponent anymore. +4F advantage on block, up from -12. Possible to followup with 5K but the timing is very strict, especially on standing opponents. FRC added right when the last hit hits.

- FB Kou : now possible to move in the air after the move is finished. Vacuum effect on hit is stronger.

- Kou : Vacuum effect on hit is stronger. Untechable time increased from 38 F to 60 F, knowdown is now guaranteed in most if not all cases. Only the last hit knocks down now, the opponent can now tech right away if the move is RCed on the first hit for example.

- FB On : New move. Anji pauses a bit then jumps very high and fast at a 45° angle. Startup is a bit slow (21F) so its use in combos is limited (possible from 5D though). Has low profile stance for frames 10~18, then invincibility to strikes for frames 19~28. FRC window 19~20F. On hit the opponent flies very high. It's possible to air dash after it hits, allowing for midscreen combos. Much easier to combo from if the opponent is sent towards the corner. Improved horizontal range in 1.10 +R.

- Issei Ougi "Sai" : FRC window went from 66~68 to 66~70. Startup is faster went from 10, 3 to 7, 3.

- Tenjinashi : damage down from 30, 15x13 to 30, 14x13.

[Dream Maker]

Some awesome buffs I noticed while watching these vids : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjx4qml6Lt4&feature=relmfu and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZMHRQCrIX0&feature=relmfu

- jD, jHS works on Ky, Axl. I suppose it works on almost everyone now and they made jD cancellable into normals earlier.

- 5S, 5HS worked midscreen after a plain HS fuujin into K followup. HS fuujin's untechable time is definitely higher.

- FB butterfly into 6S, 3K is unblockable. 3K became a low move.

Also reading the japanese BBS many players reported that jP's hitbox has improved.

Great stuff, wish I had noticed all that before. I'm going to add all of these to the change list.

[Dream Maker]

Bought the mook today and compared some the frame data in it to the current one, so the changes list should be more accurate by now.

Managed to get a couple new changes, more precisions on some infos. Also debunked quite a bit of info that turned out to be inacurrate, including some of the 2 I reported in the previous post :

- Apparently HS fuujin's untechable time hasn't changed.

- jD is still cancellable into other normals from the 23th frame and not earlier.

I'm still puzzled as I am sure I never saw before a midscreen combo from HS fuujin, K followup into 5S. And never saw the jHS, jD, jHS air combo pattern work on Axl or Ky.

I guess the first one might be explained by 5S's hitbox being better. The second one could mean that jHS's hitbox also became bigger.

That or I was just ignorant that it was possible to do these things in AC. Or the new mook is incomplete. If someone could try on accent core to see if it's possible to do those two things, that would help a lot. I don't have the game at home.

[Pwnzor]

Love 3k changes

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[TheSlyMoogle]

Bought the mook today and compared some the frame data in it to the current one, so the changes list should be more accurate by now.

Managed to get a couple new changes, more precisions on some infos. Also debunked quite a bit of info that turned out to be inacurrate, including some of the 2 I reported in the previous post :

- Apparently HS fuujin's untechable time hasn't changed.

- jD is still cancellable into other normals from the 23th frame and not earlier.

I'm still puzzled as I am sure I never saw before a midscreen combo from HS fuujin, K followup into 5S. And never saw the jHS, jD, jHS air combo pattern work on Axl or Ky.

I guess the first one might be explained by 5S's hitbox being better. The second one could mean that jHS's hitbox also became bigger.

That or I was just ignorant that it was possible to do these things in AC. Or the new mook is incomplete. If someone could try on accent core to see if it's possible to do those two things, that would help a lot. I don't have the game at home.

All of those things were possible in AC. They were just incredibly timing and spacing specific. The HS Fuujin into 5s was dependent on spacing to the corner and character weight class. The jHS, jD, jHS was entirely dependent on how large the beat counter was, and the delay of the hits in the air gatling through all of it. On Ky and Axl you had to delay each button press in order to be at the right height to hit their aerial hitboxes with the jHS. Hope that clears that up.

However still confused on the fuujin because it seems much easier to do, and it seems quite different from the way it had to be done in AC.

[Dream Maker]

Ok thanks for the explanation. For the jH, jD, jH on Ky and Axl it still seems weird that something that was so hard to do before was done on both Ky and Axl in the same match set and without any failure, but AGF is awesome so I guess anything is possible. It was always easy on Faust, Zappa and Slayer and you could do something that looked like that on Johnny too but I never saw anyone do that in match on other chars. I'll have to try myself to see if it's really easy to do now or not.

Also everyone here says that 5S's hitbox is stronger in ACR+ and it really does feel better in matches. So although there is no concrete proof of it I'm pretty sure it exists and that might probably explain why 5S pick ups after Fuujin, K followup look easier.

[Fenrir Werwolf]

Yesterday I made a little session against CPU and a sol player at Mikado to test the new anji, I and I have to say it feels good

5p antiair seems stronger and very easy to combo after, since another 5p is no longer needed, and the new gatling with 6H is really something. I still feel that 623D is useless, but whatever

Anyway, any suggestion to adapt into the new Ani? For example, speaking of combos the old ones seems to work, but I bet there is something better (I think I saw a fuujin loop in avideo using 2p to carry the opponent some time ago...can't remember, I couldn't follow too much r+ videos )...

[Dream Maker]

So you're finally in Japan ? Nice, tell me when you're around Kyoto so we can meet up. ^^

As far as combos go I haven't changed that many habits but I'll try to make a list of what I remember has changed in my gameplay, except for the 5P that you already mentioned.

Now when I'm not too far from the enemy I always go 5S, 6P, 5S, 5HS before HS fuujin to add some damage.

I use 3S cancel from 2S into 5S way more often as it's so easy to do now.

Aoi needs some adjusting because the move doesn't float anymore, basically you have to hit confirm into 5P if you hit the opponent standing or 5K if he is crouching. From 5P you can go directly into 2D or better, 3S cancelling it into 5S then HS fuujin combo but this takes some practice. If you can't get the timing down for these as it's quite hard, learning the FRC timing on Aoi will make things easier and enable you to combo into almost anything regardless of the opponent's state.

Finally 5D being special cancellable is a good thing to combo it into the new 623D, but you need to confirm visually. Input the dp motion during the dust animation and then press P if the opponent blocks (you should get shitsu) or D if the Dust hits (combo into FB on). From FB On air dash ASAP and right after landing finish the combo by P, On.

The new P enables some fuujin loop extensions but I don't find this very useful, the damage gain is minimal for the risk you have to take trying to figure out what parts work on which characters without messing up due to the prorate. I'm not a big fan of fuujin loops anyway, prefer classic Fuujin, FB rin into On combos.

[Fenrir Werwolf]

So you're finally in Japan ? Nice, tell me when you're around Kyoto so we can meet up. ^^

As far as combos go I haven't changed that many habits but I'll try to make a list of what I remember has changed in my gameplay, except for the 5P that you already mentioned.

Now when I'm not too far from the enemy I always go 5S, 6P, 5S, 5HS before HS fuujin to add some damage.

I use 3S cancel from 2S into 5S way more often as it's so easy to do now.

Aoi needs some adjusting because the move doesn't float anymore, basically you have to hit confirm into 5P if you hit the opponent standing or 5K if he is crouching. From 5P you can go directly into 2D or better, 3S cancelling it into 5S then HS fuujin combo but this takes some practice. If you can't get the timing down for these as it's quite hard, learning the FRC timing on Aoi will make things easier and enable you to combo into almost anything regardless of the opponent's state.

Finally 5D being special cancellable is a good thing to combo it into the new 623D, but you need to confirm visually. Input the dp motion during the dust animation and then press P if the opponent blocks (you should get shitsu) or D if the Dust hits (combo into FB on). From FB On air dash ASAP and right after landing finish the combo by P, On.

The new P enables some fuujin loop extensions but I don't find this very useful, the damage gain is minimal for the risk you have to take trying to figure out what parts work on which characters without messing up due to the prorate. I'm not a big fan of fuujin loops anyway, prefer classic Fuujin, FB rin into On combos.

Is comboing 5D with 623D that useful? I mean, impossible dust with j5H and on isn't the same thing, but without spending 25% tension?

Thanks for the info thou! Btw, the level gap against the mikado guys (i was around during the 3on3) is impressive, I couldn't win a round... Ok, you know I know 0 matchup, but that's quite depressing still.

Also, I'll let you know If I can come in Kyoto and when by pm, I'm sorta out of budget and unless I find a very cheap place to stay in Osaka/kyoto i have to pass this time...

[Dream Maker]

I prefer comboing into FB On because it's easier to confirm this way and have a win-win option in case your opponent is blocking. In the case of jHS impossible dust followup, I dunno how you could easily confirm into something safe if your opponent blocks. Since 5D has very few cancel frames you can't late cancel or else you find yourself at disadvantage.

Also I find this easier to do than the jHS impossible dust combo and the FB On does add some nice damage. IMO it's worth spending the tension into.

Mikado guys are pretty tough, you didn't exactly chose the easier place to start with lol

I hope you'll be able to make it to Osaka/Kyoto anyway, if you tell my by PM what your ideal price range is maybe I can help you find something.

[Fenrir Werwolf]

I prefer comboing into FB On because it's easier to confirm this way and have a win-win option in case your opponent is blocking. In the case of jHS impossible dust followup, I dunno how you could easily confirm into something safe if your opponent blocks. Since 5D has very few cancel frames you can't late cancel or else you find yourself at disadvantage.

Also I find this easier to do than the jHS impossible dust combo and the FB On does add some nice damage. IMO it's worth spending the tension into.

Mikado guys are pretty tough, you didn't exactly chose the easier place to start with lol

I hope you'll be able to make it to Osaka/Kyoto anyway, if you tell my by PM what your ideal price range is maybe I can help you find something.

I've tried anji a little more...now 3s cancel is sure easy! I need to adjust fixing the distances, somehow hs into 6p is better, but surely using the 3s cancelling all the time is a life saver.

About 6H, is it use othen after H or else? Now pretty much every normal can be cancelled into it, but unless having some tension to spend to cancel it doesn't seems a good idea to use it too much in blockstring without a butterfly...

But I noticed also another thing, the guys at mikado was using 6p as a poke A LOT more during matches, did the properties of it became somehow better?

Thanks for the answers, btw. I'll send you a pm soon about Osaka/Kyoto travel!

[Dream Maker]

I've tried anji a little more...now 3s cancel is sure easy! I need to adjust fixing the distances, somehow hs into 6p is better, but surely using the 3s cancelling all the time is a life saver.

About 6H, is it use othen after H or else? Now pretty much every normal can be cancelled into it, but unless having some tension to spend to cancel it doesn't seems a good idea to use it too much in blockstring without a butterfly...

But I noticed also another thing, the guys at mikado was using 6p as a poke A LOT more during matches, did the properties of it became somehow better?

Thanks for the answers, btw. I'll send you a pm soon about Osaka/Kyoto travel!

On pressure, 6H is better cancelled from 5S for example, cancel from 5H has too much pushback to be useful and even on hit it's actually pretty risky. But TBH, using butterfly to relaunch pressure is a lot more appealing, especially now in AC+R. The normal moves now being late cancellable makes it easier to delay the shitsu cancel and adjust it to have it guarded at the optimal time and distance. So most of the time from 5S you should be able to cancel directly into butterfly without the need to use 6H inbetween. 6H is still useful in pressure strings to bait mashing or for FRC throw shenanigans from time to time. ^^

Besides 6P getting two additionnal hit stun frames, I'm not really aware of any property changes. The use of 6P in neutral game is usually to counter specific tactics in certain matchups, for example against Jam to counter her puffbals. Otherwise it's pretty risky to use, do you remember what characters the people using 6P that much were facing ?

[RoBoBOBR]

A bit of proofreading if i may.

DL ACR frame data lists:

P as having 14F untechable still (and Jwiki lists it too)

c.S as raising no Guard Bar on block

3K as HF attack (overhead) and still lvl 3

2H - SD is +5 but comments say that blockstun is 22F, just like in AC

FB On has FRC point 29-20F

Shin ichishiki lists 8F of landing recovery just as AC

FB rin still has 2-10 autoguard

both versions of butterflys now state that only second hit deals x2 chip

Sou has nothing on CH wallsticking, still 4F start-up, though invincibilities are changed

It has full FB On frame data

some of these may be typos (so wiki data should be corrected), while some may be changes not reflected in 1st post

Also 1.10 patchnotes:

- FB On (623D)

* Increased horizontal range

[Dream Maker]

I don't have the mook at hand now since I'm not at home but the DL ACR frame data definitely seems to be wrong. And also it looks to me like work in progress since I had trouble finding it in the wiki.

I'll check again to be sure when I'll have time as I might have missed some info, but to me it seems like all the info on the wiki wasn't updated. And at the very, very least I'm 100% positive that 5S does rise guard bar and that 3K is a low. These are things you can verify in game or by seeing vids.

[BaneFang]

My body is ready for +R Anji. Let me at 'em, Arc.

[Dream Maker]

Now that I can check with the mook, here are the answers to the differences with the dustloop wiki (in red).

P as having 14F untechable still (and Jwiki lists it too) Mook does list it as 16 frames of untechable time.

c.S as raising no Guard Bar on block The mention "does not raise guard bar" isn't in the mook anymore so it should raise it.

3K as HF attack (overhead) and still lvl 3 Mook mentions it as a low and as being level 4.

2H - SD is +5 but comments say that blockstun is 22F, just like in AC For some reason blockstun didn't change, but level indeed went up from 4 to 5 and SD from +3 to +5, at least according to the mook and the AC frame data.

FB On has FRC point 29-20F 19-20F actually but I will add that to the main post if that's important.

Shin ichishiki lists 8F of landing recovery just as AC You're right, that's a mistake from me as the mook also lists it as 8, I must have taken the info from some reports and didn't check it properly after getting the mook.

FB rin still has 2-10 autoguard Mook says it's now 2-20F of autoguard and it's very perceptible in-game so I'm pretty sure it's right.

both versions of butterflys now state that only second hit deals x2 chip I don't see that anywhere, nor in the mook, nor in the DL ACR frame data.

Sou has nothing on CH wallsticking, still 4F start-up, though invincibilities are changed Wallsticking on last hit CH isn't shown in the frame data bu t exists in-game. Startup is now 11 according to the mook and it does also feel slower in game.

[RoBoBOBR]

After revision of frame data on DL wiki by Shtkn:

- H Fujin has 80% proration

- Sou still 4F of start-up, should we correct it?

[Dream Maker]

Sou's startup is definitely 11F in ACR so if it's still not fixed it needs to be changed on the dustloop wiki.

As for Fuujin that's another change I didn't notice, CH fuujin still leads to very good combos anyway and the proration doesn't apply if it's used in a combo. But I'll add it to the main post, thanks.

[Lynxfort]

- 6S : The hitbox may have been increased a bit as some non Anji players described the move as more threatening than before somehow. Damage up from 30 to 34. Now gatling cancellable into 6H and 3K

Gatling cancel 6S into 6H didn't work with me..

- Kou : Vacuum effect on hit is stronger

Still doesn't hit some of zappa's ground attacks..

[Dream Maker]

Gatling cancel 6S into 6H didn't works with me..

I just checked and you're right, probably misread the info or left the 6H mention by accident for this one. Gonna modify the 1st post, thanks for reporting the error.

Still doesn't hit some of zappa's ground attacks..

I think this change means that once you hit, the opponent is pulled in easier by the successive hits, not that the hitbox on the hits themsleves is stronger.

[Lynxfort]

Man..... 3S cancel awesomeness...watch after 0:17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H90LIe1FfeE&feature=player_detailpage#t=17

[Lynxfort]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkkDJA8O__U

2:48..watch how much tension built by that K stomp combo ^^

[VMChaZ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkkDJA8O__U

2:48..watch how much tension built by that K stomp combo ^^

This isnt AC+R, this is AC+.

[Lynxfort]

errr..my bad.. i want to delete the post but i couldn't..

[lorrieclaudia]

My body is everready.