A Beginner's Guide to Training Mode

[Airk]

I've been trying to practice against Tager in training mode and it's getting ridiculous. (Mainly because he keeps wrecking me in score attack and I got beat a couple of times by one online) 1 frame 720's from neutral and it seems like the CPU reads inputs, which doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with most other characters, but Tager's moves have a lot of invulnerability and the CPU is godlike at using it.

Basically the way the CPU plays Tager is cheap and nothing at all like how I've seen human players play him. I've enjoyed the challenge of trying to block the entire rest of the cast with CPU on 100 but his command grabs do so much damage and he perfectly knows when to do the AA grab if I jump or ground 360 if I don't, it just feels impossible to defend. As for offense if he blocks my initial attack and I'm close enough to have combo'd off of it I'm forced to jump out or eat a 360 or jump out and pray he doesn't AA me.

Is there any point in using the CPU in training mode for Tager? How should I practice vs Tager?

There's no real point in "practicing" versus any of the AI for more than like a moving target dummy. There are plenty of ways to beat AI Tager, and most of them are dumb, but the same can be said for most of the AIs at high levels. It's just a matter of finding out when the AI does what and then beating it. AI Tager actually felt extremely predictable to me back when I was practicing on him, but it's been too long for me to give any specific tips, and besides, what works changes between versions.

Who the heck are you playing that you have no choice but to be 360'd after your initial attack?

[7heTexanRebel]

There's no real point in "practicing" versus any of the AI for more than like a moving target dummy. There are plenty of ways to beat AI Tager, and most of them are dumb, but the same can be said for most of the AIs at high levels. It's just a matter of finding out when the AI does what and then beating it. AI Tager actually felt extremely predictable to me back when I was practicing on him, but it's been too long for me to give any specific tips, and besides, what works changes between versions.

Who the heck are you playing that you have no choice but to be 360'd after your initial attack?

It's either a tweak to the AI, or just me having gotten worse after not playing for a long time but I remember AI Tager being a lot more predictable. 5A spam used to make him randomly 360 even if he was way out of range.

I'm trying to get good as Hakumen since my Ragna is/was incredibly braindead (100% offense with my entire neutral game consisting of dash 5B and j.C).

I'm not really good at pressure with Hakumen but I'm trying to hitconfirm with 2A and 2B. It just seems like he blocks my first hit and if I try to continue hitting in order to push him away then I eat the throw (probably just bad blockstrings) and other random shenanigans.

[mAc Chaos]

Hakumen's blockstrings have plenty of gaps, and anything with gaps is Tager food. If you go in on Tager as Hakumen you're playing Russian roulette. You're better off zoning him, although you'll still want to learn your way around him up close.

Playing against the AI though is a waste of time. Go find some Tager players.

[shimedaiko]

How do you normally split your training mode time, and what do you prioritize? I spent 3 straight hours today drilling hakumen's bnb cause I can never land it (still can't lol)

I've been drilling a lot of combos in my training mode because watching my replays made me realize that I lose a lot of matches and give up a lot of ground from drops and improper finishers. It's made me a bit of a lopsided player (my neutral and offensive game is nonexistant) and I was wondering how others modeled their practice, i.e. 15 mins combos, 15 mins blockstrings, etc

[Anne]

How do you normally split your training mode time, and what do you prioritize? I spent 3 straight hours today drilling hakumen's bnb cause I can never land it (still can't lol)

I've been drilling a lot of combos in my training mode because watching my replays made me realize that I lose a lot of matches and give up a lot of ground from drops and improper finishers. It's made me a bit of a lopsided player (my neutral and offensive game is nonexistant) and I was wondering how others modeled their practice, i.e. 15 mins combos, 15 mins blockstrings, etc

 

I just practice what I feel like I need to do. If you feel like your confirms and combos are bad, work on them until you're comfy to mess with something else or until you have to cause your mind is just ugh from it. I can't stress it enough, if you're having problems with combos, practice the confirm into it while you do the combo. trust me.

 

I'm honestly at the point where learning BnB stuff is just trivial to learn(people get there eventually). I usually go in and do the BnB a couple times, then set the dummy up to do confirms and mess with stuff, then I'll move onto X whatever I feel like. Do the same thing for set ups and blockstrings. Unless I have a clear goal (I need to shutdown this character doing this thing type stuff) that's usually what I do.

 

I feel like drilling yourself is poor form, I won't learn if I make myself do something, only if I feel like doing it. Everybody is different though.

[Shoopman]

As someone just starting out, which skills should I focus on to get up and running ASAP? I'm rolling with Arakune for now, but that is subject to change once I actually know what I'm doing. As it is now, my play is basically organized button mashing. I can pull off one of his ground combos, but hit confirming into it is another story. I want to get to a state where every input is intentional, but I feel like if I focus too heavily on one thing, than all the other areas of my gameplay will suffer. Any advice?

[heavymetalmixer]

As someone just starting out, which skills should I focus on to get up and running ASAP? I'm rolling with Arakune for now, but that is subject to change once I actually know what I'm doing. As it is now, my play is basically organized button mashing. I can pull off one of his ground combos, but hit confirming into it is another story. I want to get to a state where every input is intentional, but I feel like if I focus too heavily on one thing, than all the other areas of my gameplay will suffer. Any advice?

 

If you have problems with hitconfirms, practice in Training against the CPU at maximum level, until you see that problem disappears.

 

One thing you have to know is that before you want to do something when fighting you have to know what the opponent's character can do and what you can do about it, so is a matter of time to gather enough experience and then you can react to a lot of things, to finally think how to screw them.

 

About combos . . . well, first practice the ones that fit the situations you find the most, then you can practice combos for more specific and weird situations.

[BlueXIII]

A few questions:

 

• Generally, when picking up a new character, how much time do you spend in the lab on a regular basis?

• Each character in these games have a fairly hefty amount of combos listed for them. Do you generally learn every single combo a character has listed, or do you prioritize and only learn a few you think really matter?

• At what point do you decide you have a combo, set-up, etc down consistently enough to say you "know how to do it" and move on? Do you use an x in a row system to determine it or..?

• Finally, when do you decide your character is ready to leave the lab and go out into the wild against real players?

 

I know these questions are really silly, but I have a tendency to really overthink thinks and make them more complicated than they likely are. Up until now, I've been very lazy and half-assed with training characters in general and I want to finally get serious so I can stop stifling my growth and genuinely improve.

[Fortune]

• Generally, when picking up a new character, how much time do you spend in the lab on a regular basis?

- I did Margaret from Day 1 so I learned things as they were being discovered so that helped. I'm now planning to do at least 30 minutes of training daily to finetune muscle memory. I spend an extended amount time grinding with more free time (for me, apparently it's Sunday afternoons). The time you spend should at least make you feel - "Ok, I learned something and I can work on this more and more." Overgrinding just for combos just leads to burnout imo.

 

• Each character in these games have a fairly hefty amount of combos listed for them. Do you generally learn every single combo a character has listed, or do you prioritize and only learn a few you think really matter?

 

- Basically I sort of pick a select few simple ones and work my way up. It helps that you picked some characters that I use. So for Millia and Margaret I focused on easy gatlings that allowed me to get a knockdown situation.  The okizeme they get is just as important so you want to know how to follow up your combos with offensive pressure.

 

For Margaret I worked on small gatlings that ended with 214A for a knockdown, then a couple of the 2C 2D counterhit confirms, and now I'm working on carrying them to the corner with fullscreen knockdowns and then doing setups afterward. (There's a comprehensive list in Margaret's thread)

 

• At what point do you decide you have a combo, set-up, etc down consistently enough to say you "know how to do it" and move on? Do you use an x in a row system to determine it or..?

 

- I do it over time. I don't exactly prefer doing long hours in one session, I basically see how times I can do it and then afterwards practice it against a person to see how I can confirm it. Later on, I start practicing on a still dummy and then against a person once again. I build up over time, it's just whatever works for you.

 

• Finally, when do you decide your character is ready to leave the lab and go out into the wild against real players?

 

- It helps me that I have friends at various levels who are always down for casual play almost every day (ily boos <3). With P4AU, I sort of jump on the fact that there's a pool of players both beginner to expert that I can test on in the arcade lobby.

[Airk]

A few questions:

 

• Generally, when picking up a new character, how much time do you spend in the lab on a regular basis?

• Each character in these games have a fairly hefty amount of combos listed for them. Do you generally learn every single combo a character has listed, or do you prioritize and only learn a few you think really matter?

• At what point do you decide you have a combo, set-up, etc down consistently enough to say you "know how to do it" and move on? Do you use an x in a row system to determine it or..?

• Finally, when do you decide your character is ready to leave the lab and go out into the wild against real players?

 

I know these questions are really silly, but I have a tendency to really overthink thinks and make them more complicated than they likely are. Up until now, I've been very lazy and half-assed with training characters in general and I want to finally get serious so I can stop stifling my growth and genuinely improve.

 

Answers:

 

#1:  This is a dumb question. It will be different for everyone and there is no "average" or standard.  It will vary with overall time spent playing fighting games (if you're Tokido, it takes a lot less time to learn a new character than it does if you've never played a fighting game before) and just how fast you learn.  The answer is "enough" (or, often, "not enough"). There is no such thing as "too much"

#2: No one learns ALL the combos. NO ONE.  The really good players don't even NEED to, because they can invent them on the fly.  The correct way to go about learning combos for characters is basically to learn roughly 4 to start with - off of your most common starters.  Probably "Something that works from 5B", "Something that works from 5A/2A" (Which is often a shortened version of the first combo), "Something that works off a throw" and "Something that works off an anti-air.".  You may need to learn corner versions for these also.  But then you should go play. And whenever, in the course of watching your replays, you go "I really need to learn a combo off <whatever hit>" then you go and learn one.

#3: X in a row is a good one, yes. 5 in a row from each side is a good starting point, but it's impossible to practice too much.

#4: Whenever you want.  In an ideal world, you'd have combos for all "Common" situations down, but that's a lot of combos (Off the top of my head: 5A/2A starter, 5B starter, "punish" starter, throw starter, air throw starter, anti-air starter, and corner versions of all of the above.).  So really, as long as you have _A_ combo mostly down, and a general feel for what your character does, get out there and play, it'll help.  Going out to play people doesn't mean "you're done" with training mode by any stretch of the imagination - you are NEVER DONE with training mode - but playing actual people makes your training mode time more focused and valuable.

[BlueXIII]

thanks.

[Blade]

This may sound like a generic question but bear with me:

 

What are some good settings for GGXrd's Training Mode?

 

They have a lot of options, and besides Danger Time being something you can actually TRAIN for, I have a hard time dealing with Gold Burst.

 

Basically, any time I am doing a guard string, the A.I. or someone else manages to Gold Burst, even from a defensive position off me.

 

Exactly how does that work, especially since they were blocking a few frames ago?

 

I've been fighting (as Bedman) vs A.I. Millia in Training Mode (Max Difficulty) to get an understanding on how to deal with mashing or players who know how to "poke" well, but she always seems to have the upper hand on me and I can't get her to back off and respect what I do.

 

Obviously A.I. is reckless with rushdown and doesn't always do smart things, but for what it's worth, I want to learn how to deal with things smartly and get the A.I. to block instead of always chasing after me.

 

Even besides Gold Burst, they always go for Overdrive reversals or Invincible Reversals which are very annoying.

 

My goal is to avoid being hit by stray damage pokes, not get bursted or reversal'd and just not get as damaged overall instead of being pecked at all day and blocking all day or getting hit by instant overheads.  Even avoiding Millia's fast pokes would help, but she's hard to run away from.

 

So what is a good setting to prep for Burst?  Or even Gold Burst/Reversals?

[Dark__Divider]

Generally, how effective do some of you find the "reacting to and punishing your opponent's actions" training to be? I myself used the random multiple recordings to have some characters go into blockstrings at which they could either do a low or an overhead, and I don't think it improved my reaction time much, unfortunately :/

[Airk]

Generally, how effective do some of you find the "reacting to and punishing your opponent's actions" training to be? I myself used the random multiple recordings to have some characters go into blockstrings at which they could either do a low or an overhead, and I don't think it improved my reaction time much, unfortunately :/

 

In theory, recording 4 different blockstrings and then blocking/punishing them on random sounds good.

In practice, your brain will rapidly pick up on all the tiny little timing differences between how you recorded them and you'll start reacting to those, which ruins the effect.

[Blade]

Got a question about Staggers and Stun recovery:

What's the ideal setting for those?  I hardly ever see anyone 'human' mash out of Level 2 or Level 3 speed (the A.I. cheats).

I ask because of Baiken's Kabari and Youzansen (Youzansen loops can happen if the opponent is stunned in the air).