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MikelAL93

[+R] Justice Q&A Thread

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Have any questions regarding Justice and her gameplay in AC+R? Post them here!

However, please refrain from trolling or starting an argument in this thread. This is to help new players and even those who are playing as Justice for the first time learn about her, and remember to bold your question as well.

Edited by MikelAL93

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How do I petition ASW to give her an airdash or three?

A: Justice is a pure zoner based around an extremely solid defense and amazingly far reaching normals that can build guard bar from half a screen with alarming ease. She also has a reversal super that can punish mistakes the opponent made at full screen. If you've played as O.Sagat against some Claws in SSF2T, that is what every matchup in the game is going to start feeling like. If you want to play JU, you're going to learn how to block well.

There, might as well toss that out. :v:

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Is there a way to force my opponents to block after I knock them down? In combos that I end with 2D for example, I notice that my opponent can escape me since 22X is way too slow to catch them. Thusly, after knockdown, I've adjusted what missile I'm doing based on my opponent's habits (like 22S if they like to jump away a lot, etc). Am I missing something here?

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The most common way is ending a combo with air HS Michael Sword > jHS. Superjump forward HS will safe jump in this situation. If you follow with 6HS, you will hitconfirm a counterhit jHS from wake-up mashing for stupid damage. You can also do empty jump > throw to beat blocking (might beat back dashes with OS 6HS), or very delayed air S Michael Sword FRC to blow up a throw tech. It's my go-to setup when I need to rush down.

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This is in three parts:

1. Stickbug was telling me that Justice is horrible and has almost unwinnable matchups against some of the cast. I only really have experience against Robo-Ky, Ky, Sol, ABA, and some Faust (All varying degrees of skill). What are these "almost unwinnable matchups"?

2. The uneducated (or researched) way I play Justice is basically this:

Round Start: Try to keep them out with your normals/michaels sword until you can get a knockdown. (If close after knockdown) delayed P nuke FRC 6P or 2K into 2D > More Nukes forcing blocks into mixup with dust + 6P + Throw

Attempt to maintain spacing by P nuking FRC for safe pressure into anti-airs/mixup with dust or 6P/S nuke. It seems like people misjudge the explosion hitbox a lot of the time and that ends up getting them hit and possibly followed up on.

If they are in a position where they can't punish you fill the screen with nukes and attempt to safely pressure. If they have meter attempt to block/backdash punish their meter usage invul moves. You don't really have to worry about bursting in my experience. Any tips anyone has that can expand on this?

3. I honestly don't know if this works but it seems like it does? P or K nuke delayed until near the opponent and then 236D Force Break for a Dhalsim type left/right mixup? Maybe? I'm sure it isn't meter efficient of course, but maybe as a gimmicky round winner? Is also seems to knock them in justices direction allowing for 2H > Aircombo. Opinions?

Edited by wirestyle22

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1. Justice has some tough matchups. The worst ones I can immediately think of are Dizzy, Zappa, and Axl, in order, with Dizzy being the worst. Dizzy-Justice is pretty bad because Dizzy has a lot of mobility and screen control, and thus can keep Justice locked down pretty well. Laser fish basically completely invalidate NB shenanigans you can do, and although your normals in the air are better, Dizzy basically gets to run circles around you. Combine that with the fact that you're a character without many reversal options, and you're going to be blocking the Dizzy oki death blender basically forever. Your one saving grace is that you have a bigger throw range than her, so she can't fuck you up with asymmetric range throw mixups (IE a tick throw you can't throw her out of) like she can with a lot of the cast. Throw range is an important consideration in any matchup, and it's one of the best things about Justice. In GG, matchups can be hard. I think it's hyperbole to call a matchup unwinnable, even if it's something ridiculous like Zappa-Johnny. People are going to use a lot of hyperbole when discussing tiers and matchups, so take words like "unwinnable" and "garbage tier" with a grain of salt. Justice is also a very unusual and technical character, so even a year into the game, it's hard to say where she'll fall in the tier list. She does seem to have a lot of trouble with her bad matchups, but most of why she's considered low-tier is because most of her matchups seem to be just slightly in the opponent's favor. Definitely don't be discouraged from playing Justice.

2. High level play in guilty gear is far more complicated than that, no matter what character you're playing. You've described a few setups that seem like something I would do in some situations, but not all the time. For example, if you have to FRC your NBs all the time in some matchup, I'd suggest that it might be more worth it to save your meter for something else. Justice in particular needs to play very differently depending on the matchup. Some characters you can knock down and put down a bunch of nukes. Some characters you shouldn't be throwing out nukes hardly at all. Some characters you want to use your nukes for spacing. Some characters you want to use your nukes for pressure and to set up your high-low game. Some characters you want to be relying on your throw setups and hit-throw mixup a lot. Some characters you're trying to force into air exchanges. Some characters (TE, FA) you want to stay on top of. Some characters (SL, JA) you want to keep as far away as possible. It's tough to give general advice on your overall gameplan as Justice, because you're going to have to learn a lot of different gameplans to succeed. I will say this: Don't rely on people misjudging the hitbox of anything too much if you're planning on winning tournaments. Good players learn that shit fast. Learn your real options to open people up and trap them instead. However, it is valid to say that it's sometimes useful to explode a nuke to control more space than it would just by continuing on its path. Looking for a single Justice flowchart will do you more harm than good.

3. That works, I use it all the time, it's a great mixup when you can set it up. However, remember that in guilty gear, they get to block both directions for one frame while turning around. You need to make sure to set it up so that the explosion happens at an ambiguous time that is nonetheless always either before you cross over or at least one frame after. Otherwise they don't have to guess.

Edited by Digital Watches

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1. Justice has some tough matchups. The worst ones I can immediately think of are Dizzy, Zappa, and Axl, in order, with Dizzy being the worst. Dizzy-Justice is pretty bad because Dizzy has a lot of mobility and screen control, and thus can keep Justice locked down pretty well. Laser fish basically completely invalidate NB shenanigans you can do, and although your normals in the air are better, Dizzy basically gets to run circles around you. Combine that with the fact that you're a character without many reversal options, and you're going to be blocking the Dizzy oki death blender basically forever. Your one saving grace is that you have a bigger throw range than her, so she can't fuck you up with asymmetric range throw mixups (IE a tick throw you can't throw her out of) like she can with a lot of the cast. Throw range is an important consideration in any matchup, and it's one of the best things about Justice. In GG, matchups can be hard. I think it's hyperbole to call a matchup unwinnable, even if it's something ridiculous like Zappa-Johnny. People are going to use a lot of hyperbole when discussing tiers and matchups, so take words like "unwinnable" and "garbage tier" with a grain of salt. Justice is also a very unusual and technical character, so even a year into the game, it's hard to say where she'll fall in the tier list. She does seem to have a lot of trouble with her bad matchups, but most of why she's considered low-tier is because most of her matchups seem to be just slightly in the opponent's favor. Definitely don't be discouraged from playing Justice.

2. High level play in guilty gear is far more complicated than that, no matter what character you're playing. You've described a few setups that seem like something I would do in some situations, but not all the time. For example, if you have to FRC your NBs all the time in some matchup, I'd suggest that it might be more worth it to save your meter for something else. Justice in particular needs to play very differently depending on the matchup. Some characters you can knock down and put down a bunch of nukes. Some characters you shouldn't be throwing out nukes hardly at all. Some characters you want to use your nukes for spacing. Some characters you want to use your nukes for pressure and to set up your high-low game. Some characters you want to be relying on your throw setups and hit-throw mixup a lot. Some characters you're trying to force into air exchanges. Some characters (TE, FA) you want to stay on top of. Some characters (SL, JA) you want to keep as far away as possible. It's tough to give general advice on your overall gameplan as Justice, because you're going to have to learn a lot of different gameplans to succeed. I will say this: Don't rely on people misjudging the hitbox of anything too much if you're planning on winning tournaments. Good players learn that shit fast. Learn your real options to open people up and trap them instead. However, it is valid to say that it's sometimes useful to explode a nuke to control more space than it would just by continuing on its path. Looking for a single Justice flowchart will do you more harm than good.

3. That works, I use it all the time, it's a great mixup when you can set it up. However, remember that in guilty gear, they get to block both directions for one frame while turning around. You need to make sure to set it up so that the explosion happens at an ambiguous time that is nonetheless always either before you cross over or at least one frame after. Otherwise they don't have to guess.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not looking for a flowchart. That was just an explanation of my general basic gameplay right now because I don't know anything. I was just asking for some tips or tricks you guys have figured out about the character so far or maybe something that gives justice a problem in a character specific match. Things like that.

As far as dizzy goes, since 236D Force Break is projectile invul, doesn't that allow you to set up pressure on dizzy? 25 meter well worth it IMO

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Justice is a character who gets better the more you understand about Guilty Gear itself. Most of her tools work against specific situations, and often require you to have strong reads on your opponent before they can really be effective. Her biggest strengths are her footsies and ability to whiff punish in meter-efficient ways thanks to 2H, 6H counterhit 2S and counterhit Ssword (you can 236D and do a combo off of it from just about anywhere). Her bad matchups mostly comprise of the characters who can do those two things while having even heavier damage, greater mobility and more varied okizeme. Sure Justice can use 236D to catch a Dizzy doing fullscreen icespike, but Dizzy can do [icespike, laserfish]x2 + lightning spear oki every time you try to nuke her. Axl's chains reach further than her normals, and pull her towards him. Justice can counter Zappa's sword as it approaches, but if she lets it get in then he can frametrap her for days. I'd also put Faust as one of her worst matchups as well, since FB door and scalpel mess up her fullscreen game, and his pokes stuff her own at midrange. On top of that, Faust is a lot better at controlling the ground than JU, and has command grab mixups in addition to his own ridiculous high/low. You also can't get both hits of 6P on him.

Sticking to a gameplan with her isn't as important as working out how your opponent plays their character, and what you can do to whack them out of it.

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Justice is a character who gets better the more you understand about Guilty Gear itself. Most of her tools work against specific situations, and often require you to have strong reads on your opponent before they can really be effective. Her biggest strengths are her footsies and ability to whiff punish in meter-efficient ways thanks to 2H, 6H counterhit 2S and counterhit Ssword (you can 236D and do a combo off of it from just about anywhere). Her bad matchups mostly comprise of the characters who can do those two things while having even heavier damage, greater mobility and more varied okizeme. Sure Justice can use 236D to catch a Dizzy doing fullscreen icespike, but Dizzy can do [icespike, laserfish]x2 + lightning spear oki every time you try to nuke her. Axl's chains reach further than her normals, and pull her towards him. Justice can counter Zappa's sword as it approaches, but if she lets it get in then he can frametrap her for days. I'd also put Faust as one of her worst matchups as well, since FB door and scalpel mess up her fullscreen game, and his pokes stuff her own at midrange. On top of that, Faust is a lot better at controlling the ground than JU, and has command grab mixups in addition to his own ridiculous high/low. You also can't get both hits of 6P on him.

Sticking to a gameplan with her isn't as important as working out how your opponent plays their character, and what you can do to whack them out of it.

I'm lucky in the sense that I have a lot of friends who know a lot about the game and play pretty regularly. Of course the character I'm interested in no one knows anything about. I've done pretty well though so far with justice. I think a lot of it is them learning how to play against her just as much as it is me learning how to play her, so it sort of evens out. Axl, Dizzy, and Faust do seem really bad :(

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