Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

zeth07

[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion (Pre-Console Release)

Recommended Posts

Wow that FC combo really is amazing. Since it is fatal I would assume a strong possibility that 3C could connect on standing opponents. If not, oh well. But if we can, oooohh the possibilities.

I would argue that much stronger combos could work off starters like that. Since I know this works on some confirms (from one of the combo videos), I suspect it should work here. Who knows, we might be able to do more since we're talking about fatals.

FC 5C > 6C > 5B > 3C > 22C > 2C > 2B > TCL > (IAD) j.B > 6A > (IAD) j.A > j.B > (land) j.B > j.D

If something like that could work, that would be pretty much full screen corner carry and probably well above 4k. Seeing stuff like that makes me think so much.

Oh and imagine what you could do off that confirm with weakpoints 0_o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You probably wouldn't need to even do the IAD's. Do you realize how far just the 3C > 22C and Rekkas will carry? If you were starting with your back to the corner then maybe the second IAD would be necessary, but that would be really situational.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Probably because he's going to be the typical character that 13-year-old chuunis go after like Ragna and Hazama. "Kakkoi" characters tend to be like that. Oh yeah, and those same people will probably use the netplay black color.
Lol this guy

Agree with his last comment though. Most likely wouldn't need 2 IAD's. One would be enough. Just marvel at how lol his carry is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's in option I guess. Since I haven't played the game myself, I try to refrain from making assumptions for things unless I've seen them. Maybe I have but I'm just not recalling it. I was pretty much just putting down a combo straight from one of the combo vids.

If we could make it easier with regular dashes, then that would be great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay, so for Valiant and Hornet, do you have to hold forward/up or do you just input it once and then the effect just carries on until you stop it?

EDIT: are you guys ready to be LOVE PHANTOMS?: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19916599

I'm going to upload this. What is the name of it? Love Phantoms?

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19926353

Lol, another vid with that thing. But it also includes a 10k OD combo (super unrealistic starter though).

Haven't watched this, do you guys need this uploaded? Can't wait to see a 10k combo of "OROKA MONO DA!!!" x n> JAMA DA/VALIANT>BLACK HAWKU STINGAH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My other question would what happens if you use up a weakpoint and then reapply the same weakpoint with another move, what would happen if you then did a different move that used up the weakpoint again? Would the combo still get extended?

I raised this question a while back, and after going back through those recent combo videos to add to the combo thread I noticed the answer to my question:

[*]-(50%) UW 5B > 2C > 6D > walk slightly 5B > j.C > j.D > RC > j.C > 5D > 236D > 5B > TCL > dc 3D = 5,077 / Both Weakpoints

While it does use meter, that combo uses up the upper weakpoint, reapplies it, uses it again, then reapplies it as well as the lower weakpoint. And it still did 5k for 50%, which is good since both weakpoints are still acquired.

Just wanted to bring that point up again, since it might have gone unnoticed.

EDIT:

That will probably be the go to combo to use off 5B w/ UW applied and 50%. 5k for 50% is good on average and both weakpoints means the next combo will be good as well if you get to hit them fast enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I reorganized the combo thread. I like it better this way.

I still need to go back through and fix a bunch of the formatting for combos since I simplified them just to make it easier on myself when noting them or they were different to begin with and I just copied/pasted to the thread.

Besides that I'll be cleaning it up a bit more in general as I go back through it. WIP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always found that combo threads that list every combo from every starter become too complex for me. I much prefer standard BNB's + Enders.

But that's just me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've always found that combo threads that list every combo from every starter become too complex for me. I much prefer standard BNB's + Enders.

But that's just me.

That's what the separate section is for....

Without touching the game I can't really decide what all is a "BnB", because my standards might be different. It should hopefully be universal and "easy" to do, without knowing that first hand I can't really add much to that list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've always found that combo threads that list every combo from every starter become too complex for me.

I don't think you mean "complex" so much as "overwhelming" but I do agree with your preference. I think listing combos based off the normal you start with is just tedious. Especially when it's pretty much the exact same combo just with a different starter or an extra normal, I feel like it just becomes a waste of space.

In order to streamline things, I usually just say where on the screen the combo starts, list the conditions (such as crouching, AA, CH, proximity, etc.), and group by the type of starter (normal, special, throw) and how much meter it uses. I guess in Azrael's case, I would also group by which weak point it uses (I wouldn't do by which one it applies, because unless you're ending with BHS, it's safe to assume you're applying weak-points somewhere in the combo). To further streamline things, only include optimal stuff and one or two sub-optimal options for easier execution. Listing hit-confirm routes is also sometimes necessary, but I don't think Azrael really needs it because of lol 2C and rekkas.

Of course, right now all we have to go on is match videos and a sparse amount of combo/tutorial vids. I doubt the combo thread of any character won't be perfected until the game releases on consoles where this kind of stuff is more easily tested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree entirely with Yuki and Metal. A very common issue with combo threads is how cluttered and overwhelming they can get. Having a section of basic BNBs is the simplest imo. You could just list which starters each of them work with.

However, Zeth is right that we can't do a good job determining which combos are BNB worthy without having the game for ourselves. Even after we all have our own copies, we'll need to keep it updated. Things change over time.

One thing that I've always appreciated is a guide that can explain the theory behind combos, so that you have an understanding of what will work in any situation, rather than memorizing lists of combos. Even if you don't play Tager, I urge everyone here to take a look at Manta's Tager CS:EX guide. It does an excellent job of this.

Since I plan on going all out on on CP, and all out on Azrael, I'd like to give a shot at making my own guide for him. Not sure how that'll go, but I'll definitely stick with it and update with everything you guys would like to add. It's not like any one person knows everything about any character. Group effort and all that stuff.

A big part of me just really wants the Azrael forum to be as helpful and new user friendly as possible. You know, the exact opposite of how most character forums are for Persona. Seriously, some important pages like combo and video threads haven't been updated since BEFORE the US release of that game. It really contrasts with how good of a job Zeth and Blade are keeping up with video threads for Azrael and Hakumen, respectively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will make a "basic combo theory" section in the combo thread, since I previously mentioned it in this thread. It will obviously be revised when I can actually test things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure I've seen people chicken block it w/o barrier. Don't know why they wouldn't just stand block it if they thought he was going to do it on wake-up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Blade are keeping up with video threads for Azrael and Hakumen, respectively.

<3

Though zeth is doing a WAYYY better job than me. But yea I need to get on top of that video thread :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So apparently 3C xx 2C is a link you can do in the corner. Don't know how useful that's going to be, depending on if you can pick up afterwards. Also 22C/623C (DUMP) is kinda funky in neutral, caught some people off-guard.

EDIT: Also off FC in the corner, 3C xx 2B is a link, but I bet that probably also works off non-FC based on the previous link I posted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were two posts on the jbbs that seemed to cover character specific combo information that I noticed. Huge thanks to hakimiru for the translation.

・Midscreen TC>Valiant Combos

Point blank 5A or 5B on launched opponent>TC>Valiant

Examples: 3C>Dump>5B>TC>Valiant, ~6D>5A>TC>Valiant, etc.

Works on: All chars except Litchi, Platinum, Rachel

Doesn't work on some characters if 5A or 5B hits too low (Noel, Nu, etc.)

 

Tip of 2B on launched opponent>TC>Valiant

Combo part for situations where 5A/5B won't hit (after JD, for example)

Examples: ~JD>2B>TC>Valiant, 3C>Dump>2C>2B>TC>Valiant, etc.

Works on: Relius, Tager, Ragna, Arakune, Makoto, Hazama Azrael (even with 2B hitting at close to max range)

Being at point blank range makes it work on more characters, but 5B is easier so I didn't investigate.

 

・Midscreen TCL>airdash JAJB>5B>Aerial Combos

Point blank 5A or 5B on launched opponent>TCL(fast as possible)>airdash JAJB~

Examples: 3C>Dump>5B>TCL(fastest)>airdash JAJB~, 6D>5B>TCL(fastest)>airdash JAJB~, etc.

Works on: Bang, Valk, Amane, Relius, Ragna, Platinum, Izayoi

※ On Ragna and Valk, JA needs to be delayed. On Relius, JA is as fast as possible.

The last hit of TCL will whiff if 5A/5B hit too high. It works up to a pretty decent height though, and is fairly easy.

Point blank 5B on launched opponent>TC(fastest)>L(delayed)>airdash JAJB~

This is for characters that TCL(fastest) doesn't work on. A slight delay is added to the 3rd hit (L).

Works on: Tager, Arakune, Lichi, Hakumen, Carl, Azrael, ν, μ

※ On Arakune, Litchu, and Carl, JA needs to be delayed.

Incidentally, TCL(fastest) works for this one if you land 5A on the low side. If you're going for consistency, low 5A>TCL(fastest)>airdash JA might be easier.

Tip of 2B>TCL(fastest)>airdash>JAJB~

Confirmed on Amane and Valk. Seems like it would work on Tager, etc as well.

 

Airdash JA combos don't work on Taokaka, Jin, Noel, Makoto, Tsubaki, Bullet, and Rachel midscreen, but work on everyone if you reach the corner during the airdash JA part.

※ Back throw>TCL>airdash JA seems to work even on the characters listed above? But not on Rachel.

 

・Corner JC>JDrc>JC>Hornet Combos

The 5D>2C>5B>hjcJC>JDrc>JC>Hornet>5A>TC>Valiant~ combo that was in the video.

Works on: Bang, Valk, Relius, Tager, Arakune, Makoto, Hakumen, Tsubaki, Bullet, Azrael, μ(Izayoi is the only one unconfirmed, I forgot about her)

A strong combo that does 4500 and applies both weak points from an overhead starter.

Midscreen JC>JDrc>JC combos were too hard for me and I had to give up. The 3D>5B>hjcJC alternative might work on all chars?

-------------

In summary,

・Midscreen ~5Aor5B>TC>Valiant combos work on:

Everyone besides Litchi, Platinum, and Rachel

・Midscreen Tip of 2B>TC>Valiant combos work on:

Relius, Tager, Ragna, Arakune, Makoto, Hazama, Azrael

・Midscreen ~5B>TCL(fastest)>airdash JA works on:

Bang, Valk, Amane, Relius, Ragna, Platinum, Izayoi

・Midscreen ~low 5A>TCL(fastest) or 5B>TC(fastest)>L(delayed)>airda sh JA works on:

Tager, Arakune, Litchi, Hakumen, Carl, Azrael, ν, μ

・Characters that require a delay for airdash JA (high difficulty)

Ragna, Litchi, Carl, Arakune, Valk

・Characters that airdash JA doesn't work on:

Taokaka, Jin, Noel, Makoto, Tsubaki, Bullet, Rachel

・Corner 2C>5B>hjcJC>JDrc>JC>Hornet combos work on:

Bang, Valk, Relius, Tager, Arakune, Makoto, Hakumen, Tsubaki, Bullet, Azrael (Izayoi is the only one not tested)

 

Characters that none of the above combos work on:

Rachel

This is what I was able to personally confirm. It's possible that JA pickup works on more characters, and I just wasn't able to do it with my execution.

Will be added to the Combo Thread, but I wanted to post it here so more people potentially see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yo damn, Zeth, nice avatar you got there. Nice work on making the combo theory section, by the way. I have a couple criticisms/ideas that I might PM you tomorrow, but overall it's pretty nice so far. Any thoughts on what you're going to tackle next?

Oh for any of you who (may still) have doubts, AMB Bakery = MetalMaelstrom. I decided to make my account reflect my handle in real life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yo damn, Zeth, nice avatar you got there. Nice work on making the combo theory section, by the way. I have a couple criticisms/ideas that I might PM you tomorrow, but overall it's pretty nice so far.

Oh for any of you who (may still) have doubts, AMB Bakery = MetalMaelstrom. I decided to make my account reflect my handle in real life.

No problem, let me know.

I'm still working on it, and I want to actually go back through all of it and revamp it all together since it was really pieced together through multiple sources and different formatting being used. Some of your ideas might already be things I'm working on (offsite just in a word document), but by all means let me know.

That goes for anyone by the way.

Any thoughts on what you're going to tackle next?

Not sure if anyone noticed or not but I added a "To Do List" to the 1st post for things I'll be working on or am working on. I added it before I made the "Character Overview" a separate thread, it was all the way at the bottom of the 1st post of this thread, but now it is one of the few things still left in the first post.

I figured it was useful for me to know what all I still wanted to do/needed to do, and it lets everyone else know what I want to do.

To directly answer your question, I just started working on the Azrael Wiki today since I noticed they said we could start doing it. So I'll be adding a few more things to that at least. Besides that I'll be updating the video thread's first post again soon, I started today but got sidetracked due to a player's name and the Wiki. And I'm focused on the combo thread as well since that was the main thing I was working on anyway. In particular I'm doing the combo transcript for that most recent video, even if it is some of the same combos, that way I can go back through them and they'll be the "basic combos" and the ones added to the Wiki.

Yo damn, Zeth, nice avatar you got there.

And now it is animated!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×