[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion (Pre-Console Release)

[Lucalibur]

A Gustaf feint would be pretty hype. jcc cancel from a normal foward dash and cover almost half of the screen without too much recovery...

...I can dream, ok?

[AMB Bakery]

Well, his forward dash IS cancellable but has no invuln. And the Gustaf feint would only be helpful if he had a command throw to go along with it.

Azrael biting people though... for some reason it just feels.... homoerotic?

[Lucalibur]

What I meant is that it would be pretty hype for he to get a Gustaf Feint that did the dash but not the actual punch, which means he would cross a lot more distance without the terribly long whiff recovery of Gustaf. Sure, none of them got any INV, but it would help with mobility.

And I can't imagine Azrael biting people, despite he often commenting he 'eats' them on his arcade, but that is another matter entirely.

[SoWL]

Azrael biting people though... for some reason it just feels.... homoerotic?

So it fits Azrael like a glove.

And why is it so that people always want to fix close-ranged characters by giving them feints?

[Skye]

Short answer, Feints are good.

Long answer, Feints are fucking good. Shouldn't have to go into why.

[AMB Bakery]

Yeah, honestly even without a command grab, he could just go into a regular throw or a fucking guardpoint overhead. Which, by the way, I think Valiant and Hornet should have feints if you decide to charge them. Kind of like Shen's heavy dash punch from KoF. It just kind of sucks that he has no choice but to commit if he does either of those moves. If I were to give one change to Azrael, it would be that or BDC.

In other non-wishful thinking news, are we 100% sure that Scud has absolutely no invuln? It seems that the super-flash has some kind of invuln, because Azrael's own 5D passed straight through it. Either it has some kind of invuln (formal or otherwise) somewhere or it has a REALLY weird hitbox.

[YukiBlue]

hes as god teir as hakumen, he deserves everything, as unfair as it is.

woooooooooooo

[psycofang2]

In other non-wishful thinking news, are we 100% sure that Scud has absolutely no invuln? It seems that the super-flash has some kind of invuln, because Azrael's own 5D passed straight through it. Either it has some kind of invuln (formal or otherwise) somewhere or it has a REALLY weird hitbox.

it has it, right before the initial blow, the invulnerability is when hes coiling back before the hit. you can even see the invincibility wind on it as well.

woooooooooooo

w

[YukiBlue]

Litchi has a feint. I don't see anyone use it much but whenever I use that shit in a blockstring it works wonders.

[LegendaryRath]

Who do you guys think are some good Azraels to watch? It's been quite a while since I had the time to look through a lot of footage and it's too often that the matches I find aren't impressive. Please let me know the names of who you think are good/interesting players who also have some footage available. It's not very helpful to just list the top players, since there's little to no footage for the majority of them.

[zeth07]

Who do you guys think are some good Azraels to watch? It's been quite a while since I had the time to look through a lot of footage and it's too often that the matches I find aren't impressive. Please let me know the names of who you think are good/interesting players who also have some footage available. It's not very helpful to just list the top players, since there's little to no footage for the majority of them.

My advice:

-Go to the video thread.

-See who are the highest ranked Azraels, lets say 16th Dan through 12th Dan if you are worried about not having enough matches.

-Ctrl+F then type name of any said Azraels.

-Watch matches.

You can't really go wrong with those players, and they at least earned their rank, instead of us trying to give personal opinions of who we "think" are the best we at least have some form of actual rankings now we can go by.

The people in the rankings have footage or else they wouldn't be listed, between the top few rankings I'm sure there's more than enough videos. In fact people near the bottom have few matches themselves, and people near the middle probably don't even main Azrael, that's why you should just go with the top anyway.

[LegendaryRath]

^ Much appreciated. When I get a few hours tomorrow I'll go through as much as I can

But it couldn't hurt to hear who some of you guys' personal favorites are. I'm more interested in refueling up on hype than anything else :P'

EDIT: Oh my gosh we finally have an Azrael avatar for the forums. It looks really nice

[zeth07]

^ Much appreciated. When I get a few hours tomorrow I'll go through as much as I can

But it couldn't hurt to hear who some of you guys' personal favorites are. I'm more interested in refueling up on hype than anything else :P'

EDIT: Oh my gosh we finally have an Azrael avatar for the forums. It looks really nice

I'll save you some more trouble by posting this playlist:

2nd Azrael Players Meeting - AH Festival

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk-r34AGz8nzXVZVACWFXSMGKq-Yd-0OQ

Multiple Azraels doing mirror matches the whole time and landing quite a few Astrals.

As for personal favorites, I don't really like playing favorites personally so I'll just say Dogura, Himajin, Senchou, Ogiri for a few that have plenty of matches between them that are still within the top few ranks.

[AMB Bakery]

Dogura beat Fenrichi by blocking (in the 2nd round). True story.

[zeth07]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20256237

Video showing how Black Hawk Stinger interacts with different guard points/counters and the timings of it. Some funny Growler stuff at the end. I'd say most of it is what we would expect to happen but still good to see some stuff demonstrated. Unfortunately they don't seem to go over OD BHS guard point unless that was what was briefly explained when it appeared, but I sure don't know for a fact.

Didn't post this in the video thread directly since it is kind of a random demonstration of things, but it will be on there when I next update the thread. Thanks to Kurushii for pointing the video out to me.

[AMB Bakery]

I hope this isn't Litchi-specific, but this set-up is kinda cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ohdFeaK9ElU#t=285s

I saw that this works on Azrael, strangely enough.

[zeth07]

A few interesting things from some recent videos:

Q using Sentinel Dump cross-up during mid-screen pressure:

http://youtu.be/rk_b2lc56eE?t=11m46s

I'm assuming it only does that if they are crouching. Depending on how you use it, it could be hard to react to, as it did catch Four Ragna quite a few times. Not something to do all the time, but another thing to consider trying at least.

Hatsugari Rionsutain using Growler absorbing one of Noel's moves, and then a Cross-through>Phalanx Cannon mix-up that is incredibly fast:

http://youtu.be/gBtEM40bXow?t=20s

Situational due to needing to absorb a projectile with Growler, but if you do it does seem REALLY hard to react to that. He gets it a few times in that round at least. Follow-ups are just as situational but if you're fortunate enough to be near the corner or have some meter it can prove useful.

[LegendaryRath]

Cross through phalanx seems really fast. Should be about 3.2k with BHS. Probably more in the corner.

[LionHeartx]

Best Azrael matches IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovF6jLKaOsg

my favorite part was grab into 6A into whiff BHS.

[TheGreatReptar]

My favorite parts were when Kaqn kept getting blown up by Shadow mashing 3C for no reason and when Kaqn wouldn't stop doing that guard point jump and almost lost the game for it. Not to mention all of the random supers Kaqn did that Shadow was able to Yukikaze for free.

All hail Kaqn.

[OutlawVinegar]

I'll save you some more trouble by posting this playlist:

2nd Azrael Players Meeting - AH Festival

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk-r34AGz8nzXVZVACWFXSMGKq-Yd-0OQ

タイガーフェスティバル兄貴 = Tiger Festival Aniki

Tiger Festival being an in-game joke in all versions of "Tales of Graces" on Wii and PS3.

[zeth07]

タイガーフェスティバル兄貴 = Tiger Festival Aniki

Tiger Festival being an in-game joke in all versions of "Tales of Graces" on Wii and PS3.

Thanks for the heads up.

[zeth07]

In other non-wishful thinking news, are we 100% sure that Scud has absolutely no invuln? It seems that the super-flash has some kind of invuln, because Azrael's own 5D passed straight through it. Either it has some kind of invuln (formal or otherwise) somewhere or it has a REALLY weird hitbox.

It probably has startup invul. but characters with reversals/counters that they can cancel into can more than likely just hit him out of it on reaction.

http://youtu.be/ovF6jLKaOsg?t=4m10s

2A clearly didn't hit him but he was able to cancel into Yukikaze.

So I would advise not thinking of it as an actual reversal, especially since you can use Growler if you're going to make that read. Unless you know for an absolute fact whatever the opponent is doing can't be cancelled into something that could beat it out, or they can't cancel into barrier.

[Lucalibur]

Are you sure it was a 'cancel'? I think Scud's startup after superflash is just long enough for the 2A to recover and then Haku just inputs Yukikaze. However, that same long startup after superflash is good enough reason not to use it as a reversal, because with 50% meter you can just rapid Growler on block, so your point still stands.

[zeth07]

Are you sure it was a 'cancel'? I think Scud's startup after superflash is just long enough for the 2A to recover and then Haku just inputs Yukikaze. However, that same long startup after superflash is good enough reason not to use it as a reversal, because with 50% meter you can just rapid Growler on block, so your point still stands.

Initially I thought there might be a gap, but I'm just assuming he cancelled into it. Either way I'm going to also assume even if there is a gap, the opponent would need to have a move with invul. or early counter frames to hit him "out" of it. I can't imagine the gap is big enough to recover (from 2A) and then just press 5A for example to beat it entirely, at best I would imagine a trade which considering the circumstances would be in Azrael's "favor" just for getting both weakpoints. If the opponent did nothing and just reacted with a non-reversal invul./counter type move (let's say 5A), that would clear everything up immediately, so I guess we gotta wait and see.

That's a lot of assuming, but yea, I at least think my point still stands as you said.