[CP] Relius Clover General Discussion (Old)

[Urichinan]

i didnt know, is he really that bad?

He isn't unplayable, but he's definitely not a tournament worthy character. He can be really good once he gets the momentum up, but his problem is that he is literally forced to let up on the opponent because of the Ignis gauge.

His redeeming qualities are that his damage and meter gain are huge, and is oki is pretty good in the corner. But he lacks almost every other tool you need to be affective at a high level.

What's sad is that it would only take a few tweaks to make him really good. Make his 6A faster, and able to gatling into other normals, give him some jump cancelable normals on block, extend 6B's range, make Ignis use less meter, give him the ability to use Ignis specials during an attack (Not just her normals). Just those things alone I think would make him a much better character, but alas, it's useless to hope for such things until a update is released.

[Elochai]

I always subbed Relius, but I always thought it was hard to play him without many JPN heroes to base my gameplay on. I eventually found out some shit on my own, but I could never really get Relius to work like I wanted him to. I always had issues getting 5D when I wanted 6D when I'd do a blockstring like 5B > 2B > 6D. So much salt from missing that and getting 5D .

Anyway, looking forward to playing him in CP. Lugia seems pretty cool, and I'm gonna assume we can give Ignis a command at the same time, right? So like, you could do Val Tus and Lugia for pressure at the same time?

[Moy_X7]

There was a point in time when I was interested in this character. I liked his character design, I liked the synergy with Ignis, I liked locking opponents down with Duo Bios, and I just liked the guy overall.

Then I played a couple matches with him.

Just getting Ignis out in the field is a pain. Not the act of getting her out itself but the act of having to do so every single time you get hit or tech a throw. The safest way to get her out would be to hit-confirm into one of the Ignis summoning specials which take away a huge chunk of her health. If something happens and you get tagged, you just lost a huge chunk of Ignis health and you'll have to summon her again by finding an opening or using a summoning special attack.

The you have to watch your meter during neutral, offense, and combos and distribute it evenly. You can have her do wonders during neutral and offense but your combo options will be weak by the time you break through the opponent's defense. Hell they might be so weak that you're pretty much forced to end the combo prematurely, in an unfavorable way, just to keep your wife alive.

That really put me off so I just dropped him and I doubt I'll ever pick him up again. Interesting character, bad execution.

[Urichinan]

Another problem is that summoning her takes a long, long time. Unlike Litchi, Platinum, Mu and other characters that have things they need to set/equip, Relius has to stay in place for 20+ frames to get Ignis out safely. 5D/j.D are quick, but he's wide open, and that can't be done during combos without a rapid.

A major problem I have with his offensive game, is that you HAVE to use Ignis to make his mixups safe, but even using her leaves holes in pressure. 5A > 5B > 2D > 6A can be DP'd during the middle, between the two hits of 2D. Using 6D makes it unsafe in-between 5B > 6A. This really wouldn't be a problem, but that makes his safest way of preform an overhead fairly weak. Of course you can use jump-in, which are the primary way to preform an overhead mixup. But since 3C is his only jump cancelable normal on block (Aside from 5A, but that whiffs on crouchers) it becomes extremely easy to react to an overhead mixup.

I actually wrote a huge post about some of the problems Relius has, with some examples I tested in-game, with the use of frame data here. If you guys are interested in my opinions on some of Relius' flaws, please do read that. I think it could be useful knowledge to those who are struggling with him, and to help them understand his issues.

That's enough complaining from me though! I'm still very excited about the new Relius, especially his potential with Geara Lugia+Ignis attacks and his Ignis-less combos.

[Bedsheets]

So, I have decided that I should probably mess around with characters other than Amane in BBCP and Relius seems really neat to me. I stopped playing BB before Relius came out, so, he is basically a brand new character to me. Right now I have been looking into old stuff about him and he seems pretty interesting. I think his new zoning possibilities could add a lot of stuff to the character as well.

So, bearing in mind that I have never played Relius ever, so I am going to be rather miserable with him, are there any things you guys would like me to try or keep an eye out for about Relius in BBCP? It will probably be a day or two before I will be able to make it out to the arcade again but, I will try to make a list and take it with me next time I go and see what I can learn.

[STenSatsu]

I don't think there is anything huge to look out for that we haven't already seen from videos unfortunately. Most things to look for would be sped up normals and frame data type stuff most likely.

[Nemhy]

I'm torn between maining Rachel or Relius both seem really fun and I like both of them character wise

[STenSatsu]

Watching http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv117523882 atm. Has 2 good Relius's that have been playing. One cool thing I saw is that you can do x>236c>214a>2c>6c>gad leith>6b>tk j.236c>land 3c for ~3k damage and extremely small ignis use. (Combo may not be exactly that but you get the idea behind it.) Bet we could do the old x>236c>5b starter into 2c>6c>gad leith>6b>tk j.236c>3c for tensionless real corner combo. Or end with tk j.236c>j.214a>fall j.c>5c>4d>3c/236c.

[.:TM:.]

Stream was already over....dammit.

[FatalCounter]

Relius isn't a bad character at all. I can't agree with that. Ignis health isn't a problem for me since I do most of my combos with less Ignis health, except from the corner. He need a strong wake-up reversal though and some normals should be jump-cancellable on block.

Some people think that Relius pressure is only when Ignis is active. You have to learn how to pressure without Ignis, at least when she is gaining some health.

BTW calling and releasing Ignis don't put Relius in counter state so use it. And stop using Ignis for unnecessary pressure that you won't able to do any damage at the end.

Sometimes, I play vs 4 or 5 Relius players on PSN and they are pretty good.

[zeakikung]

Calling and releasing Ignis do put Relius in counter state.

I do love Relius cuz he is my main but one thing that I really problem with is his 6A is slow like hell that opponent can counter it easily.

[Elochai]

So Relius was never in CH state during j.D/5D? I haven't played BB in ages, but I do recall getting CH'd when I used those in neutral against Lambda, for example. Seems kinda silly that they won't let you get CH'd during those moves then.

edit: maybe this is new to CP then? Relius got CH'd from his 5D.

[zeakikung]

No it's been like that since EX j.D/5D/2D every move cause counter state.

[FR05tB1t3 BOB]

So ive been seeing in videos that Relius can do val lanto, and then geara act and ignis will do the yo-yo attack but wont teleport behind Relius like in extend, next time i see it happen ill post the video link, has anyone else seen that?

[.:TM:.]

Relius seems way better in CP though, he was basically middle ground in Extend for me, not awful, not great he was just sorta good.

[FatalCounter]

Relius seems way better in CP though, he was basically middle ground in Extend for me, not awful, not great he was just sorta good.

I totally agree with this. I believe he is better than he was in Extend but he has 2 main problems:Ignis health that runs out quite fast compared to Nirvana health and the lack of meterless reversal.

Taokaka and Valk don't DP but they are quite fast (Valk can jump, transform and fall on you very fastly) to get out of pressure. Relius need something like that. Carl Vivace is more useful.

[Rishtopher]

I totally agree with this. I believe he is better than he was in Extend but he has 2 main problems:Ignis health that runs out quite fast compared to Nirvana health and the lack of meterless reversal.

Taokaka and Valk don't DP but they are quite fast (Valk can jump, transform and fall on you very fastly) to get out of pressure. Relius need something like that. Carl Vivace is more useful.

I thought Ignis' health got buffed? Or at least it looked that way to me. The meterless reversal thing really isn't as big of a deal as people are saying it is imo. If you have Ignis out, you can Ley+stuff. If you don't, Ley is still quite useful if you can guess right or react super quickly. Vivace is more useful, sure, but only B Vivace for getting out of pressure. A Vivace is pretty awful now that it's lost projectile invincibility in CP.

[.:TM:.]

I think the costs for moves are exactly the same as Extend.

[Rishtopher]

Really? I guess because the game plays faster, I just assumed that her health was buffed because I saw her come out more often.

[PANDEMlC]

Not sure where to go since the Q&A thread is closed so I guess I'll come here. How do you catch people who jump a lot? During your strings, on wakeup, etc? Also how do you cofirm off when you get hits from j.B j.C and 4D? Or any other thing that might be confirmable from the air. Thanks.

[STenSatsu]

Generally you catch jumpers with a 2b or 2c. For hit confirms off aerial hits you can just jump cancel into dj.b>dj.c>j.236c>j.214b.

[PANDEMlC]

Has Relius always been able to cancel 2b into 5b? I know he can do 5b to 2b but I didn't know it could go the other way, only recall seeing it CP vids I've seen but I have just recently started playing/watching this game and character so I am probably mistaken.

[abadlime]

yeah.

[FatalCounter]

Not sure where to go since the Q&A thread is closed so I guess I'll come here. How do you catch people who jump a lot? During your strings, on wakeup, etc? Also how do you cofirm off when you get hits from j.B j.C and 4D? Or any other thing that might be confirmable from the air. Thanks.

I will try to answer this correctly but keep in mind I am not an english native speaker and you can post all mistakes I did with right way to say them. As a BB you certainly know that air hit confirm depends on many cases: high or low from the ground, w/o or w/ counter. With Relius, you should add hit confirm with Ignis.

Lets try with your 1st question. Generally, I use 2 moves to allow me to jump hit-confirm. 6B (close to me) and 5c (not that close), these 2 moves are good because they are jump cancelable. Here is an example if you are pressuring someone knocked down; 2A or 5A > 5B > 5C or 6B > jAB > djBC > j236C > 214A or 214B, this will punish so hard every wake-up jump attempt. Vs jumps during strings, This is pretty hard, in general I use Ignis 6D and I jump immediately for air hit confirming.

Now hit confirm from jB, jC or 4D

jB, I will try to give you what you can do w/o Ignis (w/o CH, with CH), with Ignis active, close to the ground or high from the ground.

- High from the ground, you can't do anything exceptional even with CH except from djBC > air ender, the easier way is djAAB or djAAC > combo ender

- Close to the ground, w/o CH, you can land 5A > 6B > jB > djBC > air ender or easier you can do land > 5B > 236C > Ignis ender.

w/ CH you can land > short dash > 5B > 6B or 5C > jump confirm + ender. easier, you can land rejump B > djBC > air ender.

- With Ignis, it is pretty easy, jB > j8D > djB, djC or djBC > air ender. with CH and close to the ground, you can do like land > 5B > 6D > sjBC or jB > j8D > djB > air ender. at least 2.5K.

jC now. same thing

- High, it is really difficult without Ignis even with CH. the only thing you can do is j236C > Ignis ender, because you can't super jump after jC.

- Close to the ground even w/o CH, you can land 5B > 5C(1)> jump confirm + ender. or easier 5B > 236C > 214A

with CH, you have a lot of time to confirm. short dash > 5B or 5C > 6B > jump confirm + ender. Or easier you can land jAAB > djBC > air ender.

- With Ignis; high you can immediately do j8D after jC > djB or djC > air ender. close to the ground you can do the same combo like CH jB with Ignis or more.

4D, this move is really hard to hit confirm when you aren't in the corner.

- w/o CH it is super hard, always try super jump B > djB > combo ender. Even if you will miss this hit confirm most of the time. I prefer to do something else when it is not a CH.

- with CH, you can dash a bit before sjB or sjA.... combo ender. I find it easier to dash first and sj after. In the corner, it is a diffrent story, any combo can do at least 4k without a super ender since 4D is a great starter. Sometimes vs air mashers I do in the corner; CH 4D > wait a bit 236C ( I choose this move because it is also a great combo starter and doesn't combo prorate ) > 214A > dash > 2C > 6C > 214A > mini dash > 5C > jB > djBC > j236C > j214A > falling jC > 5C > 4D > 6C > Ball super. huge damage, but watch out Ignis health before doing this. Or you can something like CH 4D > dash > 5B > 5C > jB > djBC > j236C > 214A > falling jC > 5C ....

This is a lot but I had the same problems you have now and people helped me. <3.

[STenSatsu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yGvcAJBPwi0#t=54s

So looks like Geara Lugia has some more combo routes. Now I'm wondering exactly how much we can do with these 2 new moves for corner combos without Ignis. There's also a pretty slick 236c>RC>IAD combo later.