[CP] Taokaka Gamepyarel Discussion v:3 - Encore Edition

[Myoro]

Ah thank you very much! This is exactly what I was looking for! ^_^

 

I do have two follow-up questions though.

 

With Tao should one go for higher damage damage or Oki. I understand her Neutral is very very good due to her movement, so is one generally justified in using Cat2 over 6C>214D>j.DB, 236A~B or 5D>B okis?

 

Also Tao's new j.214D + Drive D/6D follow-up "Tao Piitan" I believe it's called, Is that just her wall cling and the fact that she can follow up a drive with it, or is it something completely different?

[Kirivon]

Ah thank you very much! This is exactly what I was looking for! ^_^

 

I do have two follow-up questions though.

 

With Tao should one go for higher damage damage or Oki. I understand her Neutral is very very good due to her movement, so is one generally justified in using Cat2 over 6C>214D>j.DB, 236A~B or 5D>B okis?

 

Also Tao's new j.214D + Drive D/6D follow-up "Tao Piitan" I believe it's called, Is that just her wall cling and the fact that she can follow up a drive with it, or is it something completely different?

 

Oki. Always. For 6C -> cat jump, encore, and 5D~X midscreen enders, cat2 is a non-factor because if you're using these enders there was no way to get to 236CC in the combo. Aka, 5B -> 2C -> H5C -> 6C -> cat jump -> 5D~B / 66. If it's a crouch confirm (6A*1 -> 236CC -> etc) or air-to-air, the corner carry options do as much or more damage as ending midscreen with cat2, with the added benefit of carrying to the corner+oki.

 

In the corner, Tao is very dangerous because her overall damage output goes up significantly. The nominal amount of damage you gain from ending in cat2 is not worth giving up the corner and potentially becoming cornered yourself, which given Tao's lack of HP and defensive options is pretty much the worst case scenario. The only time that I feel cat2 is justified is either to finish a round, or some very specific confirms. Aka, some airgrab combos, some max height 6A confirms (CSE style combos, 6A -> air drive shenanigans -> cat2).

 

Tao is very mobile but I feel like her neutral is average. Yes, she can outspeed opponents with 2A but you're not going to win matches 1.3k at a time. Other than j.B and 22C, which both have nominally disjointed hitboxes, most of Tao's moves are very prone to being CH due to the hurtbox extending with the hitbox. And, with 9.5k hp and medium damage output, every trade is a loss. Risk-reward is usually not in your favor and cat3 is the only blockstring ender that's not minus. You really, really need oki to bring that risk-reward back into your favor. Doing 2.5k and ending a combo back to neutral is not going to get you anywhere. Doing 2k into corner oki and another 3k combo will.

 

Tao Pittan is just sticky kitty, everything the translation blurb listed as "new" was stuff it already did. What's (potentially) new is sticky kitty becoming a follow up from trick edge with j.D input. If this does turn out to be the case it might have some interesting implications for corner sticky kitty crossup gimmicks.

[Myoro]

Tao: 

- 2C slower 

- no charge 5C and 2C 

- 2B moves longer dist 

- 22 move does knockdown 

- 6C>236C combos

- j.8D moves up higher than before.

 

 

 

Blah blah blah it's loketest info. not really worth discussing. Myoro is a bad person. etc, etc.

 

So what do you all think with the direction they're thinking of taking Tao in?

 

I'm guessing 2C will fatal on normal hit now, or not at all given that change.

 

6C>236C already combos, so I can only assume they meant, it combos midscreen or that it DOESN'T combo. If it's the former, that is exiting news because that would mean we could do 5C>j.B(1)>j.A>j.C>6A>6C>236C>Stuff on standing and get paid for standing confirms. The dissappearence of 5[C] was likely meant to prevent any 5[C]>6C>236C ez confirms, although slowing down 2C, which they did, would likely accomplish that too.

 

22C doing knockdown is very weird to me, I suppose it can be used as a supplement for 236C or 5D when combos are too prorated.

 

j.8D going higher seems like a possible nerf to j.8B mix-ups but could a higher j.8D be useful?

 

I'd like to see 2B being used as a counter to Haku's max range 4C and attacks with similar hitboxes. I wonder if you'll be able to go under a neutral teching opponent with it.

[XDest]

22C doing knockdown is very weird to me, I suppose it can be used as a supplement for 236C or 5D when combos are too prorated.

 

What if 5B -> 3C -> 22C in the corner is actually a route again?

 

I think they would need to have some sort of change since you can't do 5B 2C 5[C] 6C BnBs anymore.

[Kirivon]

Welp.. Looks like all the loketest changes were final.. plus more. From the jBBS:

 

・6A1段目jcやガトリング不可

・2B超進む

・5C、2Cの溜め削除 B＞2C繋がらず

・6C鈍化？屈6A＞6C繋がらず また地上NHはただの仰け反り

・3C最終段設置受け身不可 しかしキャンセルも不可

・JAでっかくなった？ラグナに前から最速昇りJA繋がったっけ

・5Dスライドダウン削除

・2D軌道変更 2DBめくりとかおっそい

・JD同技＆受け身不能短く

・J4D2段目がきりもみ吹っ飛ばし(?)に 運びに使いにくい？

・猫1がノックバック減少＆高速化＆A押しっぱで連打できるように 早すぎて単発で出したいのに2発出る…

・アンコの入力受付終了が早くなりディレイアンコで暴れ潰しとか出来ないくさい また普通にダウンする 

 

My nihongo isn't quite up to par for this but here's what I got, stuff where I'm particularly unsure in italics. If someone else could translate that'd be great.

 

• 6A - first hit jc gatling (among others?) not possible.
• 2B - moves forward a lot
• 5C/2C - no longer charegeable. 5B -> 2C no longer combos.
• 6C - slower? something about 6A>6C???
• 3C final hit .. set tech not possible?? Also, cancel not possible. 
• JA - Has become huge? From in front of Ragna the fastest rising JA connects.
• 5D - No longer ground slides.
• 2D trajectory change. 2DB, stuff like side change is slow.
• JD SMP and untech time short
• J4D - 2nd hit has tailspin blowback? It is hard to use for carry?
• Cat1 - knockback reduced and faster. ?????
• Something about encore.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crP3IhLR3q8

• 6C -> Cat3 combos
• 6C no longer has pushback.
• 6D can be used after cat3(2) as combo filler midscreen
• Final hit of cat2 wallbounces

 

Also no source but I hear 5B -> 2B -> 5B is possible.

[XDest]

To add to these changes:

• CH and NH 6C are the same, no wallbounce or blowback, large amount of hitstun.
• 3C(3) -> 2B works near-corner and in the corner. 3C -> 22C works in the corner.
• Encore no longer has forced stand, has a crumple knockdown instead
• j.236Bx5 -> 6C connects in the corner

[NeoGio0o]

Not one good Tao has picked her back up/played her yet ;_;

[Kirivon]

Tsujikawa is back to Tao. He's been posting combos and info to his twitter.

Also it seems 5B is -2 now. 6B->cat2 cancel->5B is +1. 6B -> cat2x2 is +3.

[Zekira Drake]

Tsujikawa is back to Tao. He's been posting combos and info to his twitter.

Also it seems 5B is -2 now. 6B->cat2 cancel->5B is +1. 6B -> cat2x2 is +3.

 

Which one is Tsujikawa's twitter?

 

Also please tell me I'm not the only one freaking out (in a bad way) at the fact that all of Tao's corner carry tools have basically been removed

[Kirivon]

Which one is Tsujikawa's twitter?

 

Also please tell me I'm not the only one freaking out (in a bad way) at the fact that all of Tao's corner carry tools have basically been removed

 

辻川 @tujikarori

 

 

I mean, let's keep in mind that Tao never really had either corner carry or real oki prior to CP 1.0. Pretty sure that arcsys immediately decided that giving Tao those tools was a mistake. 

 

Honestly, at this point, I'm kind of glad they're blowing Tao's gameplay up completely. Right now 1.1 Tao plays exactly like 1.0 Tao, with the exception of being notably worse. On paper the changes didn't seem too bad but the more 1.1 I play the more apparent it is that the current iteration of Tao is a shell of the former. Doing 2-3k off of air-to-air j.whatevers, 6A, and 6B doesn't particularly make for a viable character when those are your go-to damage sources. And the risk:reward on 6C took a huge hit. I didn't think the 6 -> 3 active frame reduction would really make much of a difference, but there are a lot of situations where it whiffs now where I felt like it should have connected. Add in the 29f recovery and those whiffs are pretty much game over. 

 

Granted Tao can still do damage in the corner, but she's now even more reliant on getting the corner carry. The cat2 -> j.D~A -> j.4D link got tighter and the j.2D~B -> 2C -> H5C -> jc -> cat2 -> j.D~A -> j.4D route is way more height/character dependent than the 1.0 tk cat2 route and does less damage.

 

New Tao can combo off of either normal or CH 6C and do 4.1k. In the video whistler posted he did 2.9k off of 6B before unison, and 3.9k after unison. Presumably you can add another cat2 in there to get 3.3k. 6A is at 3k and throw damage is about the same as it is now. For now it seems promising but nobody can really say for sure until we actually see match footage or get our hands on her. Small changes to hitboxes, hurtboxes, and invuln can make a bigger difference than any of these listed changes. And speaking of invuln changes:

 

 

うぃすらー@蒼争奪戦#30 10/25 ‏@WhislerRV  Oct 10

■調べ物途中経過

・6Bに足元無敵は1fからある？-無い

・6Aの頭無敵の発生-結構早い

・猫3最大タメは？-中段です

 

Looks like 6B is losing its 1f F invuln? But, in exchange, 6A's H invuln starts quite early.

[stickystaines]

http://ustream.tv/channel/9701465

 

Taokaka on right now. Kinji i think

 

Throw combo he's going for is Throw j.D~B(whiff) 5B 6A(2) j.236Bx5 66 236C

[LaowPing]

Starting to wonder if ArcSys even knows what to do with Tao. Even if she got nerfed in 1.1, she still was the same character. It felt like she had an identity. Now, I have no clue what to think of her playstyle. Of course, it's still early, but so far the gameplan just looks like "go in, get a few hits, repeat till dead"

[Myoro]

Starting to wonder if ArcSys even knows what to do with Tao. Even if she got nerfed in 1.1, she still was the same character. It felt like she had an identity. Now, I have no clue what to think of her playstyle. Of course, it's still early, but so far the gameplan just looks like "go in, get a few hits, repeat till dead"

 

It's prolly gonna be chip away at their health until you get 50% gauge or you land a throw, Counter hit, or risky play with 6C or 236C. That is unless new tech is discovered which granted this is week 1, is a very real possibility.

 

Let's stay tuned.

[Zekira Drake]

I see people talking about ESP and Tsujikawa matches here yet I've never found them, can someone link them or something?