[CP] Carl Clover Gameplay Discussion (Changelog in OP)

[Rishtopher]

Honestly not sure how I feel about his new voice. At first I thought it was cool that he was showing some emotion, but lately it's been annoying. I think it's just one of his voice sets though, the one that says "Con Brio, Con Anima", etc. Also, do we have a palette list yet?

[YoYoCheese]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zGfk5VqvKzI

[Akiro]

Is Carl's fermata still air unblockable? With the new SMP system, I was thinking that if we combo them into a second 8D (which would cause them to immediately tech if they are holding down a button) we could do Fermata right after. If they don't tech, they get hit. If they do, they still do due to it being air unblockable.

[Mascarpone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5X2Djv0EZCc#t=565s

Oh look. Tenzerre forces standing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-M6qTu7tX8&feature=relmfu#t=23m47s

things which are good to know: j2.C~Can cross ups => blah blah blah => Tenzerre => good old CS2/EX Unblockable reset => Air combo with 25% heat use. 3k => 4K yeah still scary as hell. He probably could have done the OD super instead of trying to re-lauch with CT and finished that. ugh scarry shit lol.

So do CT's reverse prorate when used in combos?

[Akira-Shiro]

Has anyone else noticed that the combos alot of these carls are doing are very un-optimal... They put like 3ja's and like 5ax6 into each combo >.< this is making me very frustrated. Also its not as our combos changed that much so why are they using 5b to pick up after a clean 2D -_-" they are making carl look bad.. All of the carls iv seen so far look free as hell. Even the combo vid that they have of him... there is only one optimal combo on that thing our of the whole 10 minutes

edit~

Ok no i lied,, all of those combos were ass. Using 2C in combos is a no no due it its awful proration the same thing applies to 6a. You never use 6a unless you truly have no other option and to top it off they were not using allegreto>8D at all either >.<

[Rishtopher]

Has anyone else noticed that the combos alot of these carls are doing are very un-optimal... They put like 3ja's and like 5ax6 into each combo >.< this is making me very frustrated. Also its not as our combos changed that much so why are they using 5b to pick up after a clean 2D -_-" they are making carl look bad.. All of the carls iv seen so far look free as hell. Even the combo vid that they have of him... there is only one optimal combo on that thing our of the whole 10 minutes

edit~

Ok no i lied,, all of those combos were ass. Using 2C in combos is a no no due it its awful proration the same thing applies to 6a. You never use 6a unless you truly have no other option and to top it off they were not using allegreto>8D at all either >.<

Well, it's only been like a week and I bit I think? Carl's complex enough to warrant the time to learn his optimal stuff~

That said, I'd read in the BBCP changes thread that the way combos work has been changed? I never really learnt how proration worked, so I can't really see the difference, but maybe that has something to do with the jA mashing?

[JG]

Somehow i feel that Carl got more nerf than we thought here initially.

- 6A don't juggle anymore if the opponent isn't in the air.

- It seem that Fuuoco and IAD travel distance was shortened.

- We can´t do solo combos after an Alle~dashing.

I love the new Nirvana move and is great that we can combine fermata after a 3C. Miss a lot 5B jump cancelable on block >_>.

Also i hate the new sound when they hit carl, the scream is way too high-pitched

[Akira-Shiro]

Well, it's only been like a week and I bit I think? Carl's complex enough to warrant the time to learn his optimal stuff~

That said, I'd read in the BBCP changes thread that the way combos work has been changed? I never really learnt how proration worked, so I can't really see the difference, but maybe that has something to do with the jA mashing?

Yes Carl is complex however his combos are basically the exact same.... just switching which ada attack you are doing. Its like they are just now learning carl, and never ever would it be ok to use a A in a combo.. thats disgusting lol

An the proration thing they were talking about is something that was mentioned in a interview.. I think it was Mori... or Takeshi or something like that. They said that a combos length is determined by the starter,, "A~attacks a combo will last for about 5seconds while C~Attacks will allow a combo to last for 7seconds. Now these numbers are not exact so if anyone is interested they can do the investigation themselves."

[soujiro seta]

Hey guys, what's up?

Been forever.

I like the changes to carl in this version. Not being able to combo after cantabile makes sense. Hit confirming with carl and summoning nirvana for a combo was really strong. Her placement didn't matter once you hit confirmed with carl b4, now she has to be close or you need 50 heat to get anything off it.

5B not being jump cancellable was because it could gatling into 2B as well. So your opponent had to sometimes guess, "2B or IAD j.2C allecan". This is pretty strong, and too much profit for simply blocking 5B.

Also, it seems 2D still comes out as long as carl doesn't get hit. Is this the same for all her moves now?

Her meter doesn't seem to last as long as EX, don't remember as i only played extend for like a week, so it seems resets are the best choice, and ending with a dmging combo at the end for a finisher.

[Psykotik]

If Nirvana does a move that will drain her life to 0, that move will come out as long as Carl or her doesn't get hit. That was probably the case for that 2D in that video since her life was at 0.

Yes Carl is complex however his combos are basically the exact same.... just switching which ada attack you are doing. Its like they are just now learning carl, and never ever would it be ok to use a A in a combo.. thats disgusting lol

An the proration thing they were talking about is something that was mentioned in a interview.. I think it was Mori... or Takeshi or something like that. They said that a combos length is determined by the starter,, "A~attacks a combo will last for about 5seconds while C~Attacks will allow a combo to last for 7seconds. Now these numbers are not exact so if anyone is interested they can do the investigation themselves."

To be fair, Carl has not changed this much since CT > CS1, so you're actually somewhat right in the sense that it's like they just started (re)learning Carl (a bit exaggerated imo, but definitely not SBO-tier playing). I definitely know that 5B not being jump cancelable will trip me up when we finally get the game lol. Considering that the properties of a lot of Carl's moveset was changed, I'd say that it'll be a while before we start seeing the real combos.

Besides, we still have our UBs and La Tenerezza forces standing and has a vacuum effect, we'll definitely see some really silly stuff in the future.

[Mascarpone]

I'm not sure which video's you are watching because the most recent ones do not have all of the 6B 6A relaunches that we saw on day one. I really don't see how the combos we are seeing are ass at all c_c. We still have the silly UB reset which, btw we can now force from any sandwiched hit confirm because Tenzerre forces standing on it's second hit (no more RC'ing cantabile), and the reset -> Crush Trigger launch seems to yield at least 3-4k damage with a respectable amount of meter gain. I'd like to point out that 25% meter is not hard to get so CT's are not hard to pull off, and the reset is still perfectly safe too.

Honestly, Nirvana's meter is not exactly robust in this game and that's a noticeable nerf. With Carl, part of his game plan is of course to use nirvana efficiently. If nothing else, doing things like 2C wall combos and throwing more j.a j.b reverse gattlings into air combos means nirvana works less. Also it's posibble that j.2C is harder to connect mid-screen because it looks like the hit box shrank a little and you now need to be right on top of the opponent.

Also, you most certainly can still score combos from j.2C-alle~can cross ups (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=D-M6qTu7tX8#t=1576s)

I'm with Soujiro on this. The ability to turn any mid screen hit confirm into a nirvanacentric air combo without meter really was far too strong and it took a lot of the thinking out of Carl's game play. I like this new forced awareness of nirvana's placement.

and side note, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dSNdzriHPNQ#t=51s there's 3K off the new 4D.

[Akiro]

Imo, the only clear nerf is Carl's inability to do solo combos. IT really stresses the fact that once you lose Nirvana, you're basically free for about 10 seconds, which can really hurt alot.

Its still also week one for this game and his combos are optimized for damage or optimized for nirvana meter usage, so I expect for the 5A/6A combos to drop away soon enough once people start learning what they can do with the new 4D and 46D. Notice how people are still comboing into Cantabile only to drop it right after, its a learned muscle memory and was a staple move in Carl's gameplay and they're still getting use to not doing it when they don't have Nirvana nearby.

[Afro-Demon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqieKpZlWg

I think this will be our go to if we got OD guys.

Edit: Looking at it again, looks like we'll at least need about 56 heat for this to work, otherwise you won't get the heat for it.

And it even started from a 2A. We can do better than this guys >_> We could probably kill if he actually decided to do more than the tenerezza loop before the unblockable.

[Psykotik]

5.5k off a UB for 25 heat? Damnnn, it's barely week 2 and we've already got some crazy stuff coming in.

[Akira-Shiro]

lol now thats a mans combo an yea i think we could have got more had he used a different ada attack.... however utilizing brio mid screen is very strong since it has 120% bonus proration

and side note, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dSNdzriHPNQ#t=51s there's 3K off the new 4D.

This is that baby damage i was talking about... that 3c should have been 5c/j2c-allecan and that volante should have been 6D >.< or 2D volantes P2 is not bad but its the worst out of all her attacks.

[Afro-Demon]

actually akira, I think the point to doing both the 3c and volante was positioning. It flipped the opponent over carl and let him carry her to the corner easy.

[Akira-Shiro]

Carl does not need a corner in this installment of the game... so i do not see the logic behind that. Not only that but they could have just trailed the enemy to the corner... this is something i do often actually. Since they could not do a corner combo or combo with the corner,,, i saw no purpose in that except just pushing them a little farther into the corner... and thanks to our 5c being jump cancelable thats a lot easier now. To top it off using 2D would have been a better option overall since it pushes people extrememly far on hit..

But moving on from that,, my theoretical combo was 4D>6C>5c(IAD backwards)>6D(Slide)>5c>j2c>allegreto>2D>5c>jb>j2c>jb>jb>8D i just wish one of them would try this combo cause im very curious about the damage i feel the 5k tickling my spine so hard =3 its going to be delicious

[Rishtopher]

So I've only seen literally a couple of Bullet vs Carl matches and she looks like she's gonna be a pain to deal with if you give her any breathing room. I just watched a match where the Carl kept waiting for her to jump in and she just sat there and used her heat up charge and then dove in. Rushdown + grappler is a combination that automatically spells doom for me lol.

Any of you guys see Carl do anything novel since CP? He kinda looks exactly the same to me except that he uses Tenerezza for UB loop now. Not gonna lie, I'm getting kinda ho-hum about him at the moment.

[soujiro seta]

Any of you guys see Carl do anything novel since CP? He kinda looks exactly the same to me except that he uses Tenerezza for UB loop now. Not gonna lie, I'm getting kinda ho-hum about him at the moment.

Lol, i'm the same way as well. The problem is they are still using the same 3D loop they've been using since CS2. If arc removed his j.2C - j.A gatling, the loop would be taken out. I still can't believe they haven't realized it yet. I'll keep an eye on him every now and then, but i'll probably end up maining Azrael/Amane with loopless carl as a sub in CP.

[Rishtopher]

Lol, i'm the same way as well. The problem is they are still using the same 3D loop they've been using since CS2. If arc removed his j.2C - j.A gatling, the loop would be taken out. I still can't believe they haven't realized it yet. I'll keep an eye on him every now and then, but i'll probably end up maining Azrael/Amane with loopless carl as a sub in CP.

I was hoping Tenerezza would help us create some crazy new stuff but I'm really sad that it just got implemented into UB loop lol. Maybe we have to wait til the game comes to console for people to do stuff with it? I assume people have limited time to experiment in arcades. That said, still wish I could see something different~

As it stands now, Relius looks more fun now that he got buffed and Amane is just too awesome for me to pass up (I refuse to say fabulous anymore, I don't want his English VA to have a lisp lol).

[sinder]

I was hoping Tenerezza would help us create some crazy new stuff but I'm really sad that it just got implemented into UB loop lol. Maybe we have to wait til the game comes to console for people to do stuff with it? I assume people have limited time to experiment in arcades. That said, still wish I could see something different~

As it stands now, Relius looks more fun now that he got buffed and Amane is just too awesome for me to pass up (I refuse to say fabulous anymore, I don't want his English VA to have a lisp lol).

THIS so much

ever since the speed update, he looks like he is worth using now. his play-style definitely looks better when BB isn't as slow as it used to be

[Afro-Demon]

It seems like the Carl's have mainly been experimenting with his new combo game. I've seen quite a few take advantage of 2C and allegretto with the new wall bounces.

Everyone is still playing his neutral game pretty much the same hahaha. Strange I thought for sure having tenerazza would make people stop throwing out so many fuocos and start using that as their main poke. Who knows, only time will tell.

[Akanishi]

I wonder if Anima combos are worth doing. Haven't tried CP yet, but during the loktests it wasn't that great damage wise.

If somebody finds anything regarding anima combos, please do tell. I'm quite curious as to what became of it

[Akira-Shiro]

Crossup option,, seems a lot harder to block then cross up 4D.. cause Anima is kinda fast if they are close enough.

[sinder]

I'm still waiting for an Fatal Anima Setup