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HexaNoid

[CP](Pre-Release) ν-13 Gameplay Discussion

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I've been wondering about the hitbox of Supra Rage. Is the hitbox similar to Rachel's 6A in that it hits in front, above, and a little behind her, or is it more like Ragna's 6A where the hitbox is a little in front, and above him?

The reason I'm asking is that the animation of Supra Rage looks like it hits almost all around her, so I'm just curious.

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Nope. It's pretty fast.

It's just not as good as 5A/6A or 6D/2D, IMO. It's too large of a commitment, especially since it's not that good on block. With other AA's, you can cancel into another gatling or jump cancel it. Plus, I've rarely ever seen any Japanese Nu players, let alone the top ones, use 623C as an AA.

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Ah, so its only viable use is at the end of combos in which it sets the opponent up into a Sickle Storm or Gravity Seed Okizeme, and on occasion to extend combos?

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I've updated the CSE > CP changes thread with the current info. Since there aren't any notes for some moves like Throw or 236C, there are still some values and properties we might not know right now.

If anyone notices any mistakes or things I could add, please let me know. I also don't mind if any of you wish to discuss her changes in that thread now, since the majority of the info is out there.

In Nu's frame data for 3C, it says that it launches higher in Luna instead of Dia. Another way to say it would be that Dia 3C causes float.

What does the (F30) value mean in 236C's untech?

If I had to guess, all "ground" Specials seem to be cancellable into 22A on hit. The only "exception" would be 623C, where Nu has to land on the ground before she can cancel it.

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What properties are you looking for with respect to throw and 236C?

Changed the mistake with Nu's 3C.

The (F30) value is how long the opponent is falling after the wallstick in terms of untech.

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So after the opponent touches the corner within the original 30 frames of untech from 236C, there's an additional 30 frames of wallstick?

I was just wondering if there was a value like that for her Throw as well. If not, then the corner wallbounce doesn't really do anything for untech time. It'd be like 6C in that respect. That'd also mean that her Throw has changed from CSE, so I'm wondering if maybe there was an omission.

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Nope. Her throw doesn't have a number like that.

And KayEff explained those terms like this:

Wb - wall bounce. As the notation is, this means the opponent will only wall bounce in the corner (aka corner bounce). If the notation listed is Wb*, then it means the opponent will wall bounce regardless of where you are on the stage.

Ws - wall stick. The numbers here are deceptive; for this case, the number doesn't refer to how long the opponent is stuck, but just simply what the hitstun/untech is. Wall stick will only happen in the corner. All wall stick notations are followed by F(n), which stands for "fall." This represents how long the opponent will be falling in terms of untech. For example, Hakumen's j.C has F(0) after its wall stick, which means the opponent will fall after wall stick for 0F. This allows the opponent to tech immediately after wall stick.

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I think there's a value or note missing, or something like that. There are some things that are possible with a Throw in the corner that I think aren't possible without additional untech from the wallbounce.

I'm not too sure because of the wording, but I think that the wallstick (F#) value confirms what I thought it meant.

Since the Japanese PS3 release is apparently in late October, that means that we've got a very long time before we'll be able to play the game outside of Japan...

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I still find it strange. I don't understand how something like (near corner) (Dia) Throw > (Dashing) 236D could work without additional untech. The only explanation I could think of would be that wallbounce speeds up how fast the opponent falls, but I think that's a stretch.

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I think the a-cho Arc Revo Qualifier was an Area Final for Kyoto (which included Naga, since he won Kohatsu's qualifier). In any case, Yuuma won it and got a Gold Ticket, which means that he'll be representing Nu alongside Yoshiki. I don't know how many qualifiers are left, but hopefully Protos can manage to win a Gold Ticket.

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I've noticed there hasn't been much discussion on the topic of our match ups against Amane, Azrael, Bullet, and Izayoi.

Would anyone like for me to make a small overview of them for future reference? (I realize there isn't much need for that at this time, but it may come in handy for when the actual match up thread for them are made.)

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Okay, first up is Bullet.

Overview:

Bullet is a fairly straight forward, moderately fast, and versatile, rush-down character with quite a few tools at her disposal.

Her drive, "Lock-on," allows her to lock on to the opponent via creating a field around herself and quickly close the distance between her and the opponent when she's within a certain range of them.

She also has Heat-Up, which not only buffs her Drive, but also increases her speed quite a bit.

Our disadvantages:

Lock-on. Lock-On will make it very difficult for Nu to get away from Bullet if she manages to get in. (Since say if Nu were to try to Back-Dash or Aerial Back-Dash away from Bullet, she could catch Nu with it, get a free combo in and get Heat-Up state.)

Also the field grows in size when she's in Heat-Up state, which could prove to be even more troublesome if you're trying to escape her pressure or zone at mid-range.

Her Speed. She isn't as fast as Taokaka, but when in Heat-Up state she does gain enough speed to dodge our Drive quite easily.

Heat-Up in general. I may have mentioned this a few times before, but Heat-Up basically buffs Bullet A LOT, and turns what would normally be a fairly easy match up into a game of cat and mouse where the cat has a flamethrower and the mouse has one leg. Okay, that might be a slight over exaggeration, but this will still prove to be quite a difficult hurdle to overcome.

Our advantages:

Her dependency on Heat-Up. Without Heat-Up Bullet can't really do much against us at mid-long range. Her speed isn't that impressive, and she doesn't really have any safe way of getting in without danger of our zoning. Sure she has a projectile, but 5D in Dia Forma clashes with it, and in Luna Forma, 5D goes right through it, so we pretty much dominate her when she isn't in our face.

Her lack of good defensive options. Bullet (To my understanding) doesn't have many defensive options outside of a DP, but it's almost completely useless against us unless we're forced to fight her at close range, so this isn't much of a problem. She's also very vulnerable to our Okizeme and Mix-Ups, which means even if we do have to fight her at close range, it will more than likely be on our terms.

My personal thoughts and advice:

In all honesty, I'd consider this match up to be like fighting a combination of Makoto and Ragna. So what we need to do against Bullet is to try to keep her out of Heat-Up state as much as possible, stay away from the corner, and zone her.

I would also recommend using mostly Dia Forma in this battle.

Out of the four new characters, Bullet seems like the easiest one for us to fight.

(And I do apologize if this seems a tad... half-assed. I really couldn't think of much to say about this match up, since it's just the basic zoner vs. rush-down character fight, but with a twist.

Next is Amane.

Overview:

Amane is a character who's quite hard to describe, he has quite a few long-ranged and close-ranged options, but almost completely lacks any Mid-Ranged options. He also has a moderate running speed, and a vast amount of movement options with his command jump.

His Drive, "Spiral," allows him to power up his drill attacks and really lay on the chip damage.

Our disadvantages:

His C normals. Amane's normals aren't "Godlik" per se, but they can be quite troublesome when we're trying to zone. Actually, his C normals seem a tad reminiscent of our Drive in that they have a dead spot in front of him, and can be used to harass and interrupt the opponent's advances. Against us however, they will be used to stop us from zoning by interrupting our Drive.

His Chip Damage and Drills. Amane's Drills at level 1 aren't that big of a threat, but at higher levels they become the bane of our existence. Not only do they deal massive amounts of Damage/Chip Damage, but they also grow stronger the more they hit us. The worst part is that they can even be used for corner Okizemes... which with our already bad defenses, means we'll either have to Burst out of it, or risk the entire match.

His command jump. Amane's Command gives him a lot of movement options, and allows him to dodge our Drive, gives him an instant overhead, and makes his corner pressure nigh impossible to escape (Or at least very hard to escape.)

Our advantages.

His C Normals (Bare with me here). As I stated above, Amane's C normals are similar to our Drive, which means they also have very longish cool downs. With that in mind, he has just as much trouble fighting us at long-range as we do him, so it's a matter of who hits whom first. Also, I'm fairly certain that our Drive MIGHT be slightly faster than his normals, so we might be able to beat out his long range options all together. We also have the benefit of

His lack of defensive options. Like with Bullet, Amane also has very few defensive options, in fact, he completely lacks a meterless DP. However, he makes up for this with his Command Jump, which as stated above makes it a little harder to catch him, but the up side is that it's very predictable, so it shouldn't be too difficult to catch him with Swords.

His Lack of Mid-ranged options. Amane and Nu are about on even ground at long-range, but at mid and (to some extent) close-range we most definitely have the upper hand.

My personal thoughts and advice:

This match up may at first glance look almost impossible to win, but the truth is that it's all about prediction and reaction. We'll have a very hard time fighting against him at all ranges and especially in the corner, and it will only become even more so if he gets level 3 drills, but he'll have a hard time fighting us at neutral and close-mid-range once we catch him in our Okizeme and/or corner him. We also have better long-range options, but with that in mind we still have to be cautions, since a single Drill attack from Amane could mean our untimely defeat.

Out of the four new characters, Amane is (IMO) tied with Azrael for our most difficult match up.

I really can't figure out which Forma would be better suited for this match up.

I'll write out Izayoi and Azrael later. I will have to do a little more research on the both of them, and I want to see if my overviews for Bullet and Amane are spot-on or at least somewhat accurate.

If I missed anything, or if anything may require correction. please inform me and I'll add/correct it.

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I agree with your assessment for Bullet. Unfortunately, Bullet doesn't seem like she has a lot of strong players playing her. I don't think I've seen a strong Bullet player against a strong Nu player. She's also a relatively new character, which doesn't really help her.

If I'm not mistaken, her grounded projectile is always a Level 1 Projectile, no matter what state she's in. This means that Dia 5D and Bullet's projectile will always cancel each other out. Luna 5D will cancel out Bullet's projectile and go through it.

For Amane, I think it's a funny match-up where blocking can actually be a bad thing. I prefer Dia mode in this match-up, if not just for the extra mobility. The reversal option in Luna is nice, but since (IMO) chip damage is the greatest danger against Amane, I would prefer to use Counter Assaults.

Fighting him up close is a great option, since his only fast normals are his 5A and 2A. Everything else is very slow, which means that we're at a good advantage whenever the frame advantage is at 0 or greater for us, like after a blocked (Luna) 214D.

His long-range moves are slower than our Drive, but they also have less recovery on whiff.

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Next up is Azrael...

Overview:

Azrael is a fairly slow moving character who can teleport with his back and forward-dash. He also has quite a few moves with Super-Armor.

His Drive, "The Terror," applies (Up to two) weak-points to the opponent, which gives his attacks extra effects, allows him to do follow ups on his Special Moves, and make certain attacks unblockable when both weak-points are on.

Our disadvantages:

His Drive in general. As stated above, Azrael can apply weak-points to the opponent with his Drive moves, and give certain attacks follow ups. This normally wouldn't be much of a problem, but with these follow ups he gains huge amounts of meterless damage, corner carry, and with both marks applied one of his Distortions, "Black Hawk Stinger," becomes almost completely unblockable (Save for Barrier Blocking against it in the air). This all in mind means we''re going to have a very hard time fighting him once he gets a hit in.

Growler Field. Azrael's Growler Field is reminiscent of Mu's Origins in that it has Guard-Point against most attacks. However, it also has Anti-Projectile Guard-Point. That means that all of our Drive moves, specials, Distortion Drives AND 5C are negated, but that's not even the worst part. The worst part is that on top of absorbing all of our long-ranged options, Azrael also gains a projectile (Phanlanx Cannon) with ever hit of a projectile based attack and it's faster than our 5D and deals quite a bit of damage. This move single handedly makes this match up ten times harder.

His Teleports. On top of having a DP that absorbs our long-ranged attacks, he also possesses a Teleport-Dash that can pass through our Drive, this means that if we were to try to either hit him with 5D or Sickle Storm Oki on him, he can pass right through it AND hit us while we're recovering. It's also somewhat like our Act Parcer Zwei in that it can pass through the opponent. However, unlike Act Parcer Zwei, it can also be canceled into a jump, which means not only can he cross us up, but also possibly hit us with a Mix-Up.

Our Advantages:

His lack of movement options outside of Teleports and over all slow movement speed. Although Azrael can teleport, he doesn't really have much else to get in on us. His Air-Dash is sub-par at best, and he can't run, so with proper use of our Drive he won't be able to touch us.

Growler Fields. Growler Field is indeed a very scary tool, but it isn't perfect, it seems to be easily bated and it takes a little while for Azrael to completely recover from it, which means we can take advantage of that by hitting and possibly getting a Counter Hit combo off of it.

My personal thoughts and advice.

Remember how I mentioned that fighting Bullet in Heat-Up state was like a game of cat and mouse? Yes? Well, this match up is about the same, except replace the cat with Godzilla and make the mouse Blind, Deaf, and Dumb. Azrael truly seems like he was made just to counter our options, he's able to completely shut down our Drive, Mix-Up, and Oki with the use of Growler Field and his Teleports. The best thing to do against him is to try to keep our distance as much as possible, and if we're forced to fight him at close range, we'll have to be VERY smart about what attacks we use against him. I would actually say that this fight is basically like fighting a more mobile Tager who instead of grabbing us and taking away half our HP Bar, can take away most (if not all) of our offensive and defensive options.

Out of the four new characters, Azrael may actually be the hardest for us to fight in terms of keeping him from getting to close.

To be honest, both Formas have their pros and cons in this match up. On one hand Dia Forma has access Act Parcer, which could be used to get out of less than desirable situations against Azrael and (Inform me of whether this works or not) also be used to get up in Azrael's face and combo him when he uses Growler Field, Dia also has a nigh spammable Gravity Seed to slow him down, but we have absolutely no defensive options against him, aside from what the System allows us (Counter Assault and Bursting) . On the other hand we have Luna Forma, who has access to Act Parcer Zwei, Blade, and Cavalier, which could be used to stop Azrael from getting to bold with using Growler Field *I've said that name a lot in this, haven't I?* since after absorbing the Sword, we could use any one of these to get some fairly good combos in, and the damage buff is nice as well. Though, the downside is that we lose a very good way of getting away from Azrael in the form of Act Parcer and our zoning becomes a little weaker. So, it's really up to how you want to play this match.

(Like with the last overviews, please inform me of any mistakes and/ or of anything I may have missed and I'll gladly add/correct it. I'll have Izayoi written out either later today or tomorrow.)

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hi.

just wanted to point out that amane is a long-range and short-range fighter. he wont be able to challenge nu in the mid-range area, where she has a few tools herself.

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I added and corrected a few things on Amane's overview, is there anything else I may have not mentioned or overlooked?

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Besides his 6 frame 5A, his next fastest normals are his 2A and 5B at 9 frames. When pressuring him, you really just have to remember that he has a DP. Other than that, a Dashing 2A should be enough to continue pressure.

His DP has 7 active frames, and 47 frames of recovery, which is an easy 6B punish. His DP's -37 on block. To show how bad that is, it means that it wouldn't be that hard to punish with 236C, if we wanted to...

His stored projectile is insanely fast, with only 7 frames of start-up. He can store up to 3 of them. I like to think of his projectile as similar to Spark Bolt.

His potentially unblockable DD shouldn't be too much of a problem. It's 7+4 so, if I'm not mistaken, unless he hits on the first active frame, we can just Jump+Barrier it.

As for Act Parser, I can't say that I remember seeing it used a lot defensively, unless it's the 44 versions. Even then, it's not used that much.

I don't know if anything that's caught in his DP can be cancelled.

I think that, for pretty much all of Nu's match-ups, Dia mode is a lot safer. If the opponent is in Gravity or in (Luna) 236D (from zoning or from a combo ender), then Luna mode becomes an option. There are very few instances where (IMO) a Nu would willingly be at neutral in Luna.

- - - - -

In regards to what range we should engage Amane:

The only tools we'd have at mid-range would be 3C, Drive, and some Specials. All are slow, except arguably 3C, but they don't put you at a very good advantage on block. Mid-range isn't a bad place to engage him, but if Nu is already that close, I think she should be right up next to him. She'd need him in Gravity, or to block any version of 214D or (Luna) 236D for a safe approach.

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I haven't seen enough strong Amane, Bullet, Azrael, or Izayoi to decided rather Nu has a strong advantage either way. To me it feels like she's really good against all of them. But it's good to know what her advantages and disadvantages are.

Considering that Growler Field for Azrael does minimal damage (500) I'm not inclined to believe it will be something he uses to escape pressure. The risk is too great. I might be wrong on this, but the absorb is considered "guard point" according to the wiki, doesn't that mean Nu is capable of canceling her drive into 22A? I've done something similar against Bang's a number of times. Also, does anyone know if Azrael can RC or combo off Growler Field?

Amane, I don't see a lot of him. Has the chip situation been changed? Such as, eating the drill on knockdown versus barrier/normal blocking? To me the match up seems very momentumy. If I had a category to place it, I suppose kind of like Mu or something. Dunno. He feels sluggish to me. Not a fan of awkward movement. So I can see Nu having an easier time with that type of movement as opposed to Mu.

I need to see some good Bullets. She's really rare now. Has everyone left her or something? She seemed kind of cool. Like a hop dash Tager. She moves too slow though. I mean, the game starts exactly like it does for Tager, we can do anything we want (if I'm not mistaken) and get away with it. Most match ups are guessing games on how to safely get to zoning. So this match up seems easy to me. That Heat-up thing seems good if she does manage momentum though, making her tough to get away from. That will make the match up interesting. At least more interesting than Tager and Hakumen at least. I'll probably be mostly disturbed by how awkward her neutral pose is.

No info on Izayoi. I have nothing on this considering I have yet to see a match of the two. I may give a rain check on this one.

Cool stuff I know. None of it has any concrete evidence, statistical backing, or credible background. Purely my thoughts on the new characters. If you want my thoughts on the newer characters, I'm fairly certain Terumi's drive will counter everything Nu does. Just a hunch.

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Last, but certainly not least is Izayoi.

Overview:

Izayoi is a high momentum, Rush-down/Zoning(?)/Mode changing character with quite a few Teleports, movement options, and DPs.

Her Drive, "Scarlet Justice," allows her to shift from her normal form into Gain Art Mode, which gives her access to faster and farther reaching teleports, better zoning, and makes her an overall stronger opponent to fight.

Our disadvantage:

Gain Art Mode in general. Izayoi really only has one thing against us, and that's Gain Art Mode, which is a buffed up version of her normal mode with better Zoning, Rush-down, and movement. These buffs turn an (honestly) easy match up into a complete headache.

Her Movement options and Teleports. This is the true danger of Izayoi, what she lacks in any threatening long-ranged options, she more than makes up with her ability to close in on us VERY quickly and completely ignore our Drive by simply flying over it or Teleporting behind us while we're recovering.

Our Advantages:

Her lack of any reliable projectile. Izayoi's projectile, Sonic Saber , is FAR out classed by our 5D, 6D, and 2D Drive attacks. It's quite slow, if it comes into contact with our any of our Drive attacks it's either canceled out or pierced through and leaves Izayoi completely vulnerable to a Drive follow up and combo.

Her complete dependency on Gain Art Mode. Without Gain Art Mode, Izayoi (IMHO) isn't much of a challenge. Her normal Air-dash is nothing too impressive, her overall speed is average at best, and as stated above, she possess a very small threat to us at full screen.

My personal thoughts and advice:

This match up is like fighting a mixture of Jin and Aigis in that she has a similar projectile to Jin's along with many DPs, and on the other hand she also changes into a buffed up version of her normal mode that gives her access to new/stronger versions of her Specials and Distortions Drives like Aigis. The best thing to do against her is to keep her out of Gain Art Mode as much as possible and zone her from as far away as you can. If she does somehow enter Gain Art mode then just be wary of her Teleports and Air-Dash.

Out of the four new characters, Izayoi seems to be just slightly easier to fight than Bullet.

I'd recommend using Dia Forma for most of this fight, since Gravity Seed can be used more often to Slow her approach while you zone her from a safe distance, and it also has access to Act Parcer to get out of undesirable situations. Though, if you manage it catch her in the corner then you could change to Luna Forma for stronger corner combos and Okizemes, just watch out for her DP when attacking her at close range and you should be fine.

Well, that's all of them. As usual, if I overlooked or missed anything please inform me and I'll gladly add/correct it. Also, I know this overview is less than lengthy, but the reason for that is that I honestly couldn't think of much that Izayoi can do against us, this match up truly seems to be almost completely in our favor, if I'm wrong then please do explain why.

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