[CP](Pre-Release) ν-13 Gameplay Discussion

[toanenadiz]

That is all referring to Extend Lambda and her ability to do a 17 frame overhead. In CP, Nu's 4B is a normal 23 frame overhead.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

That is all referring to Extend Lambda and her ability to do a 17 frame overhead. In CP, Nu's 4B is a normal 23 frame overhead.

A 23 overhead that combos isn't that bad, although according the frame data the proration is pretty bad (not entirely sure how damage proration works in CP). And now that it doesn't have the first hit you can use it during blockstrings as a legitimate overhead. Tao's 6B is slower (26F) and Haku doesn't get anything off his 6B at all.

Put honestly, all of that is moot compared to my original point: You're a heavy zoning character, you don't need a low-immune 4B on top of full-screen laser blades.

[toanenadiz]

I actually meant to direct that post to Kenja, not you. I agree with your point. And Hakumen gets a combo on CH. That seems pretty sweet for an 18 frame overhead that is invincible to lows.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I actually meant to direct that post to Kenja, not you. I agree with your point. And Hakumen gets a combo on CH. That seems pretty sweet for an 18 frame overhead that is invincible to lows.

Well, we all know the community's opinion of CP Haku-men.

I'm actually very eager for CP v-13. I like what they did with her mode switch. I've always thought her projectiles felt a bit out of sync with the speed of the rest of the game, but with everything sped up in CP I think she'll feel a lot more cohesive to the gameplay.

[toanenadiz]

I don't see what the community's opinion of CP Hakumen has to do with anything but whatever.

I know I will have issues due to 2C's change.

[Hellknight10]

Speaking of which... Tao/Haku's 6B overheads have low invulnerability. Why can't Nu's 4B have it too? It's not like it's comboable into Ex Ragna damage while Tao/Haku can't really do anything after it without meter. #bufflarsnu

But for real, she's way better than before, but still can't haggle with the big boys just yet. What's it gotta take?

all it takes is for Lambda/Nu to stop getting unnecessary nerfs just for the sake of nerfing her. I'm not saying that Extend Lambda and CP Nu are bad but they would be better if they stopped getting nerfed on areas that didn't need nerfing just so they could say "oh hey we nerfed Lambda/Nu"

but whatever, 4B can finally be used in blockstrings (not counting 5C > 4B) and CT Sickle is back for actual mixup outside of CS2/CSE Sickle oki

on a side note, 4B could actually dodge Tager's 360 in the past. The salt was delicious

but that was a real long time ago

[kenja0]

I like how no one sensed the sarcasm from the first part of my post.

I'm just annoyed that she gets little play still and the majority of it that I see is the zoner failing to zone.

[AchedSphinx]

I like watching Protos play. Currently my favorite atm.

[Legacy Edge]

Plz tell me this fcking 236B>5B meterless followup is gone in CP corner combos

[ElegantShadow]

Plz tell me this fcking 236B>5B meterless followup is gone in CP corner combos

I've yet to see anyone do it in CP as of yet, so I think it's safe to assume that it either doesn't work anymore, or it's obsolete now.

[TheGreatReptar]

Plz tell me this fcking 236B>5B meterless followup is gone in CP corner combos

Yea, it's gone. On grounded hit, it causes a spin state that lasts quite a while. 236B>mode change>5DD>4DD>4B combos midscreen. In the corner I believe 236B>mode change>236D>mode change>6A works. On air hit it causes a corner stick, and 236B>mode change>6A works. No more dashing into neutral normals. I'd imagine you might have to do dash>6A if you got an air hit a little bit outside of the corner, but no where near the difficult 236B>5B was.

[Legacy Edge]

Oh thank god, i was starting to believe its impossible to pull that thing off with my fingers

[ElegantShadow]

So, how does everyone feel about the way Nu plays now? I mean honestly, she's had quite a few big changes to her play-style, one of which is her being able to change forms, so I'm just a bit curious as to what everyone thinks.

Also, I'm curious to know if I'm the only one who feels that our Sickle Storm okizeme is now somewhat weaker when compared to its CS counterpart?

[mAc Chaos]

The Haku Nu matches I watch seem pretty much the same to me.

[umbrage86]

It seems like a lot of the videos show her in Luna forma for most of the match. It might just be because that form has access to the reversal super and slightly better damage values, that or they're still used to playing lambda. I think there was only like one video where someone forcibly stayed in Dia forma the entire time and actually did well (and weren't playing against Tager or Hakumen)

Is it just too high risk and not enough reward to have a style centered around being in Dia most of the time? Or are people just not comfortable yet?

[ElegantShadow]

The Haku Nu matches I watch seem pretty much the same to me.

The match up does seem very much the same-old-same-old. However, I do think it's more high risk/high reward for both characters now.

Now that Hakumen's counter can be blocked, he has no really reliable tools against Nu's okizemes, also Nu, in Dia Forma, is likely the bane of his existence at full screen (Moreso than Lambda was), since she now has access to a nigh spammable Gravity Seed, and has overall safer options with zoning.

On the other hand, Nu has very few defensive options outside of what the game's System allows, so once/if Hakumen gets in, Nu will have a hard to getting some breathing air. Moreover, with Hakumen's increased damage and meter gain, he'll only need about 2-4 good combos to do Nu in.

It seems like a lot of the videos show her in Luna forma for most of the match. It might just be because that form has access to the reversal super and slightly better damage values, that or they're still used to playing lambda. I think there was only like one video where someone forcibly stayed in Dia forma the entire time and actually did well (and weren't playing against Tager or Hakumen)

Is it just too high risk and not enough reward to have a style centered around being in Dia most of the time? Or are people just not comfortable yet?

From what I've heard, Luna Forma is the more risky form to use, I can't quite recall the reasons why, though. (So hopefully, someone else can answer that for you. XD)

[kenja0]

From what I've heard, Luna Forma is the more risky form to use, I can't quite recall the reasons why, though. (So hopefully, someone else can answer that for you. XD)

I believe opponents see that as an opportunity to be more aggressive and thus make more mistakes than they would against Dia. Luna is bad at neutral, but great at okiezeme. Nu as a whole now has the ability to get into players' heads, something Lambda lacked a lot of and was only getting worse as CS was nearing the end of its life. With mode changes, opponents can completely misjudge a mode's mixup or playstyle. It gives her something fresh and dynamic to an otherwise straightforward zoning game.

[minlexx]

So, how does everyone feel about the way Nu plays now? I mean honestly, she's had quite a few big changes to her play-style, one of which is her being able to change forms, so I'm just a bit curious as to what everyone thinks.

Nu seems to me less hardcore to play and learn all the combos. Less concentration on combos, more on zoning. Character seems to be easier overall, despite a whole new thing with mode change, act parsers, etc. And more boring

Also, I'm curious to know if I'm the only one who feels that our Sickle Storm okizeme is now somewhat weaker when compared to its CS counterpart?

Why??

[AchedSphinx]

It seems like a lot of the videos show her in Luna forma for most of the match. It might just be because that form has access to the reversal super and slightly better damage values, that or they're still used to playing lambda. I think there was only like one video where someone forcibly stayed in Dia forma the entire time and actually did well (and weren't playing against Tager or Hakumen)

Is it just too high risk and not enough reward to have a style centered around being in Dia most of the time? Or are people just not comfortable yet?

You should check out some of the Protos videos in the video thread. He sticks mostly to Dia and tends to rely heavily on zoning and winning neutral. So most of his matches are long since he plays defensively, but he's the top Nu right now so it must be a winning strategy.

That aside, Nu vs Hakumen looks pretty much the same now, but probably worse for Nu I suppose. Considering that Hakumen can get 5k damage out of nowhere (okay, he used like six megetama or something) if Nu messes up she'll probably just be dead. So expect really long drawn out games if you're playing against Hakumen. If you want to win, you have to zone, I don't think rushing is effective at all in this match-up. Though I did see Luna mode being used effectively by Protos, he was able to chip Hakumen down a lot with wheel oki, so I don't think Hakumen can easily counter that like he does in Extend. A lot of gravity was used. And I mean a lot. As long as you keep Hakumen from actually getting the momentum, Nu can win quite convincingly.

[minlexx]

... mostly to Dia and tends to rely heavily on zoning and winning neutral. So most of his matches are long since he plays defensively, but he's the top Nu right now so it must be a winning strategy.

That's what makes me sad - the fact that probably the best winning strategy for Nu is total zoning. First time I thought about changing my main after watching Protos matches

[Errol]

Nu seems to me less hardcore to play and learn all the combos. Less concentration on combos, more on zoning. Character seems to be easier overall, despite a whole new thing with mode change, act parsers, etc. And more boring

Why??

I always thought Lambda had quite easy combos and was always more about the zoning already TBH.

guard primer loss seems like one of the biggest changes to me.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Protos doesn't play defensively, he plays passively: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12897-My-Ky-Trade-Secrets-thread/page9&p=1505364&viewfull=1#post1505364

He simply let's his opponents make decisions, usually wrong ones, and punishes them for it. It SHOULD be the way this character should be played anyways. The more you play offensive, especially with a character that doesn't excel in close range, the more likely you are to make a mistake. It's why even though I play Hakumen i love watching protos play. His neutral game is so powerful it's crazy.

I'd love to see him against Goro and Mitsurugi, based off his play against Chin.

[ElegantShadow]

Nu seems to me less hardcore to play and learn all the combos. Less concentration on combos, more on zoning. Character seems to be easier overall, despite a whole new thing with mode change, act parsers, etc. And more boring

Less hardcore? I was under the impression that Nu had become more complicated to use (And in all honesty, Lambda had gotten boring by CS:EX). Though, I do see what you're saying, Lambda was able to zone as well as play rush-down without need of a specific mode to do so, but you can't deny that she seems a bit more... interesting to play now.

Why??

Well, the duration and amount of hits Sickle Storm, in Luna Forma, inflicts has been lessened by a considerable amount. I'm not saying her okizeme is useless now (On the contrary, I think it still gives the likes Rachel and Litchi a run for their money), I just feel that it's been nerfed a bit from CS. However, Gravity Seed Oki more than makes up for that.

[AchedSphinx]

I'd love to see him against Goro and Mitsurugi, based off his play against Chin.

I would be interested in seeing this. Haven't seen Protos in that many mirror matches.

I always thought Lambda had quite easy combos and was always more about the zoning already TBH.

guard primer loss seems like one of the biggest changes to me.

Well, yes, she was but her zoning is better now. She can use gravity seed more and has the old wheel back, so no need to use Blade at all.

[Errol]

I would be interested in seeing this. Haven't seen Protos in that many mirror matches.

Well, yes, she was but her zoning is better now. She can use gravity seed more and has the old wheel back, so no need to use Blade at all.

That might be true, and I haven't really watched much of Nu in CP, but it seems to me like much of her threats at range are gone. I'm not sure what the new things are to make players desperate to get in with her unable to put out a random wheel of ungodly frame advantage into ungodly quick overhead, or with guard primers gone. Better at zoning? Well it's all relative to risk and reward. Maybe she's better at zoning but it doesn't look like I'll have to take as many risks against her. I dunno.

Maybe this is a good time to look at some Lambda vs Tsub/Mak matches to see if the matchup will be as infuriating as EX.