[CP](Pre-Release) ν-13 Gameplay Discussion

[toanenadiz]

Thank you for reminding me of that. I completely forgot.

It was no problem.

Toan, block? That never happens against me

quick wakeup, or roll

I have a pretty good shot of not having to block against you so I take the chance to get out.

[toanenadiz]

If you do that against 6A oki you just get destroyed.

Also wait a minute. How is Hotaru and meaty throw not real oki :P

You have lost matches because I mashed 2C on wake-up. Anything that has a chance of losing to Lambda's 2C on wake-up isn't legit.

[Errol]

I have a pretty good shot of not having to block against you so I take the chance to get out.

Charginggggggg sigh

[mAc Chaos]

It's Hotaru. How can it not be legit. It's just that 2C is ridiculous.

I just have to condition you more, that's all, and that's easy. :P

Also I really did edit my post before I saw yours. SO THERE

[Errol]

It's Hotaru. How can it not be legit. It's just that 2C is ridiculous.

I just have to condition you more, that's all, and that's easy. :P

Also I really did edit my post before I saw yours. SO THERE

2C is not ridiculous, everyone's anti-airs have more than 20 frames of invincibility, right?

[mAc Chaos]

2C has multi hit and it clashes with Hotaru, letting Lambda hit you out of it, or just do her teleport dash out of the corner.

The only way to stop it is to get ready to counter during Hotaru in case they clash so it'll j.D him.

Or just throw her out of it. My oki with Toan always turns into a 50/50.

[Errol]

Why are you doing Hotaru on Lambda's wakeup anyway, it's not like she has anything with invulnerability besides anti-airs, which work against Hotaru?

[mAc Chaos]

Anyway COR, you sounded like you had something to say about all this. Time to spill the beans.

Why are you doing Hotaru on Lambda's wakeup anyway, it's not like she has anything with invulnerability besides anti-airs, which work against Hotaru?

Couldn't you say that about any character with an anti air. Hotaru is good because most of the time it will force them to block. It's not like it's the ONLY thing I do, but it's good to keep them scared. And you get good damage off it in the corner for only 2 stars.

Let me put it this way: if it only loses to a hard call out, then it's pretty good. Forcing them to commit to something like wakeup 6A or 2C is good too because it makes your other options better. Both of those will lose to pretty much everything else.

[Errol]

Couldn't you say that about any character with an anti air. Hotaru is good because most of the time it will force them to block. It's not like it's the ONLY thing I do, but it's good to keep them scared. And you get good damage off it in the corner for only 2 stars.

I guess I see it as a way of eating DPs and if there is no dp to eat, why bother. If you just time your 5a properly you can force him to block without using stars?

But I don't know if I'd ever do tsubaki 2c because it doesn't have a bijillion frames of invincibility and a bijillion active frames. It would only end bad for me, I think. And probably most other characters.

Probably either get hit, or not get hit but recover slower.

[mAc Chaos]

It's actually bad against DPs. Inferno Divider will beat Hotaru or clash with it, same with most of Jin's, only Tsubaki's get eaten (oh and Hotenjin, so basically things that aren't really true DPs). So it's actually the other way around. Lambda has no DPs so I can spam it like there's no tomorrow. At least without 2C in the mix.

5A whiffs on like half the cast when they're crouching and pretty much everybody does most of the time against Hakumen.

[AchedSphinx]

Why are we talking about Hakumen in the Nu thread? @_@

Some advice from a PRO LAMBDA PLAYER. Don't corner yourself. You can do whatever you want on wake-up, hardly matters, but whatever Hakumen does you have an opportunity to escape the corner. It's not really about what normal beats this or that, it's more about reading what your opponent does or has a tendency to do. If you know he has a tendency to jump, throw out 2C or 6A, if he does meaty throw remember what he does after you tech it. Players will rely on the same thing until you prove to them that you're smart enough to prevent them from doing it.

This advice comes from your friendly neighborhood PRO LAMBDA PLAYER. Sadly, I never follow my own advice

@Overheat It's amazing to think that SMP 236C might be optimal in a combo. However, I think there is a huge damage reduction when you use it, so honestly I think doing something like 5C or Drives would be better. Maybe the 236C was placed in there to keep them positioned properly for the Calamity to hit. It just seems bizarre to SMP a combo like that when there's probably a lot of potential for more damage.

I also forgot what the properties of 236B were in Unlimited/Overdrive mode. Like, proration wise. 236C does have the highest P2 of all of Nu's abilities aside from the second hit of her Drive and CT. In that video, the Nu player did FC 5C[1] instead of all eight hits, I'm pretty interested in knowing if 5C[8] would work, i.e connect with that CT follow up.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

This advice comes from your friendly neighborhood PRO LAMBDA PLAYER. Sadly, I never follow my own advice

No, from my experience you just choose to Flying Dragon Kick me in the face while I'm setting up snake chains

[toanenadiz]

In CP, does SMP still cause a huge reduction in damage/proration? Typically, whenever someone does a move with SMP twice in the same combo in CP, the combo just ends cause they usually can tech so I never paid attention to its damage.

[Overheat]

Not really organized, but...

Since we don't know and won't really know until anything similar to a mook comes out, we'll just have to make good guesses.

It's amazing to think that SMP 236C might be optimal in a combo. However, I think there is a huge damage reduction when you use it, so honestly I think doing something like 5C or Drives would be better. Maybe the 236C was placed in there to keep them positioned properly for the Calamity to hit. It just seems bizarre to SMP a combo like that when there's probably a lot of potential for more damage.

I also forgot what the properties of 236B were in Unlimited/Overdrive mode. Like, proration wise. 236C does have the highest P2 of all of Nu's abilities aside from the second hit of her Drive and CT. In that video, the Nu player did FC 5C[1] instead of all eight hits, I'm pretty interested in knowing if 5C[8] would work, i.e connect with that CT follow up.

I'm led to believe that there isn't a huge drop in damage, if any.

We can infer some things about 236236D and 236C from combo's like this. The untech time for 236236D on each hit may have increased, the duration between each individual hit may have been shortened, or both. I personally think it's just that the untech time on each hit is greater now. For 236C (and maybe some or all other moves with repeat penalties), there might only be an untech time penalty, and not a damage penalty (or at least a relatively small penalty).

There's a lot we don't know about CP's combo system, unfortunately. It's possible that a damage penalty, if any, has no real direct relationship to the untech time penalty. We also don't even know if using 236C in a combo twice is worse than using 6C in a combo twice, for damage (proration) and untech time.

There are a few things to consider and remember, if AchedSphinx is correct about repeat 236C not being (close to) optimal in those combo situations. First, if it wasn't correct, then Drive is out of the question (for optimal damage purposes). With that said, 5C is probably the best alternative. To answer another of your questions, 236B's proration is still 92 in OD, with a damage value of 840 (worse than Dia 5C). He didn't even do a TK or 236B in that second combo. Also, if 236C was used for positioning, we have to remember that he used it twice. He should've only used it once if that was the case.

And if that's all true, then why would he be using 236C? To be fancy? If the maker of those combo's is HAL, and he's the HAL I'm thinking of, then I think he'd like to attempt something optimal (which he did in CS2 as well). Besides the issue of 5C[2-8] taking up more time, it's reasonable to believe that 5C counter doesn't carry. If it did, I'd like to think that he would get as much hits of 5C as possible, even if he'd only be able to get 3 or 4, etc. If 5C[8] FC > CT did work, then he also could've omitted the 2C if time was an issue. The only thing I might question is his use of 214D, which leads me to wonder how fast 214D is, and how fast 236236D is...

In CP, does SMP still cause a huge reduction in damage/proration? Typically, whenever someone does a move with SMP twice in the same combo in CP, the combo just ends cause they usually can tech so I never paid attention to its damage.

Assuming that there's no damage penalty, the last two 236C's used in that combo would do ~205 and ~192 damage. Another explanation for the damage penalty is that there might be no need to penalize the damage in this game, since moves that have a repeat penalty already make any follow-ups a lot more difficult. Given the new Heat Gain system, it seems like the only way to reasonably exploit this is by using a lot of Heat.

Besides all that, if you look at Ragna's health bar during those last two 236C's, it goes down a fair bit. So even if there is a damage penalty (that might or might not be related to the untech penalty), it doesn't seem to be that much.

[Errol]

In CP, does SMP still cause a huge reduction in damage/proration? Typically, whenever someone does a move with SMP twice in the same combo in CP, the combo just ends cause they usually can tech so I never paid attention to its damage.

Th answer is no. In fact, if you can followup after repeating the move, it can be very strong. Hazama's 10k OD combo is a good example, but there are other examples where you can continue the combo despite hitting SMP.

[mAc Chaos]

GGs someonewhodied. Normally I would post this in the XBL thread but it looks like this is your hangout. :P

[someonewhodied]

I'm calling shenanigans lol.

After a cold outdoor day I couldn't 66 or 44 to dash/backdash/airdash too well as you saw. Cost me corner pressure into a loss almost every time.

But GGs other than that.

[Nemesis]

oh someone-- teach me lambda corner combos plzzz ... most notably uhhh... the ones after Act Parser B

[toanenadiz]

The dash 5B one? What are you having problems with?

[mAc Chaos]

I'm calling shenanigans lol.

After a cold outdoor day I couldn't 66 or 44 to dash/backdash/airdash too well as you saw. Cost me corner pressure into a loss almost every time.

But GGs other than that.

Ah, so that's what that was about. I thought you had more trouble when I had you in the corner though than worrying about pressuring me in the corner.

[Nemesis]

The dash 5B one? What are you having problems with?

I just dont know it -- thats all really

[someonewhodied]

Ah, so that's what that was about. I thought you had more trouble when I had you in the corner though than worrying about pressuring me in the corner.

You grab/5A/2B/j/C me out of everything I try to do =|

I just dont know it -- thats all really

Someone link this man that 5B/Dash 5B/6B/66B character specific chart we had a few months back.

Anyways:

X>236B>5B>6A>2147D>66A>6C>236C>Ender

X>236B>665B>6A>2147D>6A>6C>236C>Ender

X>236B>6B>5Cx1>6C>236D>214D~C>236C>Ender

X>236B>66B>5Cx8>6C>214D>5Cx1>6C>236C>Ender

Also for everyone except Tager and Rachel:

X>236B>663B(Its really a 2B)>2C>2147D>5Cx8>6C>236C>Ender

[toanenadiz]

This is it right? I'm at work and can't actually see that link but I know the table is in the first post of the combo thread.

[Nemesis]

@_@

[someonewhodied]

Yup thats the one. I needed another copy too so how perfect :3

Poor bang and litchi. Everything works on them