[CP](Pre-Release) ν-13 Gameplay Discussion

[Skye]

In the CP vs CT Nu regard, Nu was stronger in every way. That includes options, CT Nu may not have had as many options, but quality over quantity. CT Nu's options covered almost every base needed.

On top of that;

Better damage

Easier to play

Better pressure

Better mobility (due to jump cancellable d moves)

Better DDs

Infinite gravity well

2c

CT Nu is that best Nu/lambda has ever been, and should be, no offense.

[Agni]

CT!NU was just stupid, and I'm saying this as a Nu player. Who wants to play such an annoyingly overpowered character?

[Errol]

CT!NU was just stupid, and I'm saying this as a Nu player. Who wants to play such an annoyingly overpowered character?

I know Toan does.

[AchedSphinx]

In the CP vs CT Nu regard, Nu was stronger in every way. That includes options, CT Nu may not have had as many options, but quality over quantity. CT Nu's options covered almost every base needed.

On top of that;

Better damage

Easier to play

Better pressure

Better mobility (due to jump cancellable d moves)

Better DDs

Infinite gravity well

2c

CT Nu is that best Nu/lambda has ever been, and should be, no offense.

You also forgot...auto correct 5C. A quality of life buff that is sorely missed.

CT!NU was just stupid, and I'm saying this as a Nu player. Who wants to play such an annoyingly overpowered character?

She technically wasn't overpowered because she had a glaring weakness. If you got in, she was pretty much dead. Though due to her being really good at avoiding things and her mobility and the fact that Hazama didn't exist at the time, it was difficult to make happen.

[Agni]

She technically wasn't overpowered because she had a glaring weakness. If you got in, she was pretty much dead. Though due to her being really good at avoiding things and her mobility and the fact that Hazama didn't exist at the time, it was difficult to make happen.

Yeah, but that required actually getting in in the first place. CT!NU could just mash D all-day and you pretty much had to sit there and IB the swords all die or get chipped to death.

CT!Nu's playstyle pretty much was "Mash D All Day Every Day" and it was boring as hell.

[AchedSphinx]

Could her D swords actually do chip damage? That's pretty scary.

[toanenadiz]

CT Nu is that best Nu/lambda has ever been, and should be, no offense.

You are completely correct. It would be stupid if a zoner was at that level again.

I know Toan does.

Got that right. I have no qualms about using my favorite character if they are overpowered. Why would you not want an awesome character?

She technically wasn't overpowered because she had a glaring weakness. If you got in, she was pretty much dead. Though due to her being really good at avoiding things and her mobility and the fact that Hazama didn't exist at the time, it was difficult to make happen.

Nah. She was overpowered. Her tools made her glaring weakness almost non-existent against most of the cast. She had an even match-up against a character who had a 100% combo from any hit. That should tell you how hard it was to get in on her.

[Agni]

Got that right. I have no qualms about using my favorite character if they are overpowered. Why would you not want an awesome character?

Because steam-rolling everyone is boring as fuck. Part of the fun of fighting games is getting into close and intense matches where the winner isn't known until it's over. I normally don't play top-tiers because I like that.

CT!Nu was boring to play. She owned practically everyone and was just boring to watch. I liked playing as Lambda better--yeah, she wasn't as broken, but fuck, at least I had to think when fighting.

[toanenadiz]

Overpowered =/= broken. CT Nu could still lose. She didn't have 10-0 matches across the board. She was amazing, yeah. But by no means was she an instant win button. She was just an easy mode button.

[AchedSphinx]

I dunno man. I use Mitsuru and she's considered S-tier, but I still have to think when I play her. Nothing wrong with using top-tier if you like the character or playstyle.

[Agni]

Yeah. That's my point.

I play FGs to get away from that kind of stuff. It's one of the last genres to still be mostly difficult.

Eh, I guess we'll agree to diagree then.

[toanenadiz]

Can Makoto parry 236D oki?

[ElegantShadow]

I'm fairly certain that her parry doesn't work on projectiles, and I haven't seen anything so far that shows otherwise.

[StarGazer]

Can Makoto parry 236D oki?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcVkgT-j8AA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

If it gets hit by all the disc hits then it will lose by default as shown in video . If not then Makoto could recover safely of it. This happens because Space Parry negates the disc Vaccum effect. Anyway. It can be beaten and sometimes it helps Makoto escaping the oki. Should be considered a gimmicky tool. Not 100% hopeless.

[C0R]

I'm fairly certain that her parry doesn't work on projectiles, and I haven't seen anything so far that shows otherwise.

You can parry projectiles. So long as they're not Noel 3c.

[Overheat]

Would any of you be interested in learning how to calculate combo damage? I can put a section in the combo thread reserved for it, but it's not very useful for most players. I already have most of it written out, but I don't want to waste a lot of space on a subject most don't care about.

Here's an example of something I would show, although this is a bit more advanced. The only difference in the combo thread is that I'd be explaining it in much more detail, with some easier examples.

Collapsed: Calculating OD 236236D's minimum damage:

Calculated using HAL's OD combo's.

(110*20%)*37 = 814 (initial guess)

1*.89*1*.94*.99*.89^5*.89*.94*.92*.89*.8*.75

*.7

Before 236236D = 6003

+ 199.59

(1*.89*1*.94*.99*.89^5*.89*.94*.92*.89*.8*.75*.7*1500)

+ 187.61

(1*.89*1*.94*.99*.89^5*.89*.94*.92*.89*.8*.75*.94*.7*1500)

After 236236D = 8554-1500 = 7054

7054 - 6003 - 199 - 187 = 665

Since 199.59 and 187.61 have relatively high decimal values, we'll round down 199.59 to something like 198.93 and truncate the decimal to make it 198.

This would make the damage dealt by OD 236236D in the combo to be 666.

Too hard to calculate for OD. I'm going to guess ~16.5% minimum damage, so 18.15 minimum per hit. 18 x 37 = 666. The actual fraction is 9/55.

The only way I can think of this being wrong is if there's some change in damage from using 236C multiple times. If that's true, then I'll have to mess around to find out the repeat damage penalty.

At least with 666 minimum, I can test if it matches up.

Before 236236D = 4996

***+ 133.22

(1*.89*.89*.89*.99*.89^6*.89*.89*.94*.92*.89*.8*.75*.7*1500)

+ 125.23

(1*.89*.89*.89*.99*.89^6*.89*.89*.94*.92*.89*.8*.75*.94*.7*1500)***Mistake

+ 149.69

(1*.89*.89*.89*.99*.89^6*.89*.94*.92*.89*.8*.75*.7*1500)

+140.70

(1*.89*.89*.89*.99*.89^6*.89*.94*.92*.89*.8*.75*.7*.94*1500)

After 236236D = 7415-1500 = 5915

5915 - 4996 - 133 - 125 = 661

If the 6 is a 5, then it'd be 662 instead. If the damage by both 236C's were 132 and 124, then it'd be 664. Any small change in proration affects 236C a lot, because of its base 1500 damage. We can attribute the missing 2 damage to that.

In any case, this is just a theory.

50 to 87+2 to 89+4 = 93

91 hits at the end of the combo.

666 - 36 = 630

This goes without saying, but I'll mention it as well. In order for me to calculate the minimum damage for OD 236236D, I had to use a combo that brought down proration a fair bit. OD 236236D combo's are also rare, so I ended up using the 2 OD combo's by HAL.

I'm also working on an updated proration table that I should be able to post up soon. I'll update it if any changes are noted, as well.

[toanenadiz]

Go for it. We would appreciate it and it would be helpful to new Sword Summoners.

[someonewhodied]

Anyone with programming knowledge want to write a program that lets you input attacks and gives the ending proration and damage? If we have damage, P1, P2, and repeat, it shouldn't be tooo hard to have a program calculate. (No I don't volunteer, my programming knowledge is basic at best)

[Errol]

Tsubaki's got one of those. Switch chars

[toanenadiz]

Anyone with programming knowledge want to write a program that lets you input attacks and gives the ending proration and damage? If we have damage, P1, P2, and repeat, it shouldn't be tooo hard to have a program calculate. (No I don't volunteer, my programming knowledge is basic at best)

It seems really easy to do. Why not do it yourself? It would be good programming practice.

[someonewhodied]

uhhhh knowing me I'd screw something up and fry my computer in a way that doesn't even make sense =P

[Blue Link]

It seems really easy to do. Why not do it yourself? It would be good programming practice.

Adding all moves from all characters looks like one hell of a work though.

[ElegantShadow]

Adding all moves from all characters looks like one hell of a work though.

Quite.

Though it may be hard work to make, it would be very helpful for making combos since CP's Combo System is so different. My only question, however, is will this simulator show the actual combo being done or just the proration and damage values?

[HexaNoid]

My only question, however, is will this simulator show the actual combo being done or just the proration and damage values?

Just the values, I think. I don't think you could make a program showing the combos being done as of right now anyway since all the move sprites aren't available, but even if they were it'd be a ton of work to do.

[toanenadiz]

Adding all moves from all characters looks like one hell of a work though.

Figured it would just be for Nu. Though making it for other characters would be tedious. I'll look into trying to do it. I haven't done GUI work in forever and I'm not sure if I want to deal with remembering how to program them.