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HexaNoid

[CP](Pre-Release) ν-13 Gameplay Discussion

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Are there combos that can work without 5C with this new version of Nu? Or is using 5C going to be like how Lambda used it? I was curious about that.

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Almost done the updated damage/proration table and the post on calculating damage/proration. There are a lot of interesting updates that I'll note when I post it all.

Anyone with programming knowledge want to write a program that lets you input attacks and gives the ending proration and damage? If we have damage, P1, P2, and repeat, it shouldn't be tooo hard to have a program calculate. (No I don't volunteer, my programming knowledge is basic at best)
That'd be nice, but I think it'd be good to memorize at least a bit of proration/damage data.

I think the only tricky part would be things like 623C or 6C (where proration only applies once). If we're aiming for more accuracy, then we'd also have to deal with truncation, minimum damage, repeat move proration (if it exists), etc.

I assume we're talking about Nu, so unless there's a good quality video out there that shows a combo with SMP, we won't really know if there is repeat proration for (some of) Nu('s moves). Unless it's universal that there's no repeat proration penalty at all, or that the proration penalty value is universal.

I would consider looking into all of the missing information (damage, minimum damage, proration, repeat proration) for Nu, if anyone could promise to program such a calculator.

Are there combos that can work without 5C with this new version of Nu? Or is using 5C going to be like how Lambda used it? I was curious about that.

It's basically the same as CS1/2. If you can use 5C in the combo, you should. It's not usually necessary for the combo to work, though.

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Just the values, I think. I don't think you could make a program showing the combos being done as of right now anyway since all the move sprites aren't available, but even if they were it'd be a ton of work to do.

There are a couple calculators out that also allow for move startup and untechable time, letting you know if links are possible and warning you if there is too large a gap.

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Do they also take in account gatling table / revolver action table to show if there exists cancel from previous move to next? :)

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For the first post, I noticed that 623C is not listed as having SMP. Act Parser Zwei is listed as Act Perser instead.

Protos is currently by far the highest ranked Nu at 18th Dan, 4 Dans above the next highest ranked Nu's. At least for the time being, it seems like Yuuki is playing Hazama. I hope that changes. I also have no idea if HAL really is the "you." from the Nu rankings, although I think it's a safe bet.

Updated Proration Table. It should be quite accurate. If you notice any mistakes, please let me know.

Changes:

5C P1 96 > 100

5C P2 92 (once) > 89 (once)

OD Drive damage and P2 89 > 89 (once)

OD Drive follow-up damage and P2 94 > 94 (once)

OD (Dia) 214D

OD (Luna) 214D

minimum damage for OD 236236D

noted that CT ignores CCR

Thank you to yattyaruzei and hakimiru.

I don't remember anyone mentioning it in the Nu forums, but Nu's CT ignores CCR (as well). I managed to confirm it a few weeks ago as well. I'm still a bit unsure of (Dia) 5B having 85 P2 and (Luna) 5B having 86 P2, so it deserves a mention.

ルナフォルマ時はサマナーをガードされた場合、派生Dが出せない
ルナフォルマ中は ガードされた場合派生Dを出せなくなる 。
This seems to say that Drive follow-ups are not possible on block in Luna mode.
スープラレイジ

アルカディアによるとディアの方には頭無敵があるような表記がありました

またフォームにより吹き飛ばし・受身不能時間が異なる

ディア時は上へ高く吹き飛ばすが

ルナ時は低めでかつ、 受身不能時間が伸びている ため

高めに当てることで追撃が可能に。目安は(●ν^)の頭上よりさらに上に居るか否か

フェイタルカウンターに対応。ディア版のみFC時接地まで受身不能で中央なら5Dで拾える

ディアフォルマ時のみ頭属性無敵あり。フォームによってヒット時の受身不能時間と、吹き飛ぶ距離が異なる
As hakimiru has mentioned before, (Dia) 623C has some head attribute invincibility. I never knew or noticed this, but I think this says that (Dia) 623C and (Luna) 623C launch the opponent in different trajectories. I'm not sure about untech time, but I can't recall many combo's where (Dia) 623C is used instead of (Luna) 623C.
5C最終段だけ攻撃レベルが高い(=受身不能時間が長い)

最終段まできっちり当ててから追撃すると技も繋がりやすいかも

Something about 5C's untech time. I guess the last hit of 5C has more untech time than the others? I'm not really sure.
コンボシステム

ゲージ増加率

ラグナスレpart35より

988 名前:名無しさん[sage] 投稿日:2012/12/04(火) 23:37:59 ID:9WYHR7oc0

スレ埋まりそうだしゲージ周り調べてきたので報告

ゲージ増加率=攻撃力*0.072 / 相手側は攻撃力*0.04

2hit目以降、ゲージ増加率に乗算補正*70%の補正がかかる

今作もヘルズ追加(OD版含む)にはゲージ増加量2倍ボーナスがあるが

見ての通り乗算補正とゲージ補正の影響を受けるのであんまり増えない

で、コンボ時間(2秒?)か補正(40%?)が溜まるとゲージ増加率がさらに悪化するっぽい

※これが一体何に使えるかは各自で考えるように!

I believe this is from a Ragna thread in the JBBS. It was posted in the Nu wiki, and I can't really understand it, but it seems pretty interesting. I'm pretty sure it's about Heat Gain.

Current top players, IMO (with links to their statistics):

Protos (Gentarou)

Yoshiki (Nao-san Aishiteru)

Tsukasa (Hagashi)

Aruba (Gomikuzu)

Naga

Kyon

Additional resources (if you can read a bit of Japanese):

JBBS

Wiki

Proration table

With all of this out of the way, it should be easier for me to finish up the combo thread.

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Thanks for the data as always, Overheat.

Some clarification for the JP portions:

スープラレイジ

アルカディアによるとディアの方には頭無敵があるような表記がありました

またフォームにより吹き飛ばし・受身不能時間が異なる

ディア時は上へ高く吹き飛ばすが

ルナ時は低めでかつ、 受身不能時間が伸びている ため

高めに当てることで追撃が可能に。目安は(●ν^)の頭上よりさらに上に居るか否か

フェイタルカウンターに対応。ディア版のみFC時接地まで受身不能で中央なら5Dで拾える

ディアフォルマ時のみ頭属性無敵あり。フォームによってヒット時の受身不能時間と、吹き飛ぶ距 離が異なる

Supra Rage -

Arcadia lists the Dia version as having head invuln.

Launch and untechable time differs between modes.

Dia version launches high, while Luna version launches lower and has a longer untechable time. Because of this, hitting high with it allows for followups. As a point of reference, the opponent needs to be higher than above Nu's head for it to work.

Has FC properties, and Dia version FC is untechable until the opponent reaches the ground, allowing for midscreen followups with 5D.

5C最終段だけ攻撃レベルが高い(=受身不能時間が長い)

最終段まできっちり当ててから追撃すると技も繋がりやすいかも

Only the last hit of 5C has a high attack level (= long untechable time)

Making sure you land with all hits before continuing might make your followups easier to connect with.

コンボシステム

ゲージ増加率

ラグナスレpart35より

988 名前:名無しさん[sage] 投稿日:2012/12/04(火) 23:37:59 ID:9WYHR7oc0

スレ埋まりそうだしゲージ周り調べてきたので報告

ゲージ増加率=攻撃力*0.072 / 相手側は攻撃力*0.04

2hit目以降、ゲージ増加率に乗算補正*70%の補正がかかる

今作もヘルズ追加(OD版含む)にはゲージ増加量2倍ボーナスがあるが

見ての通り乗算補正とゲージ補正の影響を受けるのであんまり増えない

で、コンボ時間(2秒?)か補正(40%?)が溜まるとゲージ増加率がさらに悪化するっぽい

※これが一体何に使えるかは各自で考えるように!

Combo System -

Gauge fill rate = Atk * 0.072 (Atk * 0.04 for recieving side)

From the 2nd hit onwards, guage fill rates have an additional P2 of 70%

In CP, the Hell's Fang followup (OD version too) has a 2x bonus gauge fill rate, but due to the prorations mentioned above, there's not much effect.

After reaching the combo time limit (2 secs?) or a certain proration rate (40%?), the gauge fill rate seems to get progressively worse.

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I hope I'm not messing up a discussion by jumping in here... Put Nu in the corner with Bang though, is her options just about the same as CSE? (Without using system mechanics)

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I hope I'm not messing up a discussion by jumping in here... Put Nu in the corner with Bang though, is her options just about the same as CSE? (Without using system mechanics)

Even worse since reversal super is only available in Luna mode

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I've been wondering. What are Nu's notable buffs and nerfs? I haven't seen an actual list of them as of yet. [And if there is a list, could someone please direct me to where it is?]

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I decided that I'll be making a new thread, instead of a single long post. I made a similar thread for CS2-CSE, so I decided I might as well make another for CSE-CP. If it's not done later tonight, then I hope to finish it sometime tomorrow.

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Luna version is still throw invulnerable, although they seemed to have changed the frames on it slightly. It might not be frame 1 anymore.

It still FCs though. Not sure about Dia version, since no hitbox.

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I may have more questions, so I'll ask you guys later.

Some changes I wasn't sure about:

All the FC's. I know that 623C and 5C are FC's, but I'm honestly not sure about 214A/B/C. I'm fairly certain that j.214D and (j.)632146D aren't FC's anymore.

I believe someone mentioned something about a change to Negative Penalty. IIRC, it was that Negative Penalty now also puts you in Danger (draining Barrier or something effectively similar). I didn't mention it, since I'm not entirely sure about it.

All the other minor changes, like 214A/B/C maybe having less throw invulnerability, will be edited in once the frame data's out.

This wouldn't be a change, but does anyone know if CT's have SMP? I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

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The negative penalty change is confirmed. It doesn't drain the barrier gauge but it prevents you from using it for a time period.

Regarding FC, I believe it was stated that j.214D and (j.)632146D had their FC properties removed but Luna gravity well still has it.

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It's a fair trade for losing the first hit (although I'd prefer if it was the same as CS2).

A bit late, but the mook's out, so hopefully some frame data will be out in the next few weeks or month. Apparently Nu's has a few errors, but I'm not quite sure how major the mistakes are at this point.

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Yeah but I liked how 4B originally was and didn't really care that I needed to space the overhead out. At least 2A seems to be 7 frames now so we can poke out against those characters 5A whiffs on slightly easier, assuming that isn't an error.

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It's actually slightly faster than Ragna's overhead. At least they gave us something. Unless they made Ragna's overhead even faster :(

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Like Overheat said, the mook came out and Kurushii has graciously purchased it and scanned it so the mods can put the frame data up. I'll try to post the basic stuff in here after work before getting it all to the wiki.

And something I noticed looking over the frame data is that 2C's head invul was reduced to only being head invul from frames 11 to 17 (it was 11 to 34 in Extend). Also Supra Rage has head invul from frame 4 to frame 19. And I'm not seeing any mention about gravity well being invul to throws anymore.

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