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Moy_X7

[CP] Jin Gameplay Discussion

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yeah man cs1 jin still my favorite version =[

holy shit 6c>ct>6c>6b>j.214d>6c>214b>5c>2c>6c>od>j.c>j.d>j.214c>touga = 7.9k i hope whoever posted this wasnt trolling lol

new dmg and proration values also

同技乗算補正=same move proration

5A 300 100%75%

5B 350、250 100%85%(once)

5C 710 100%89%

5D 800 100%82%

2A 300 100%75%

2B 500 90%85%

2C 720 80%89%

2D 720 90%82%

JA 300 90%75%

JB 540 90%85%

JC 700 90%89%

J2C 700 90%89%

JD 740 90%82%

6A 680 80%92%

6B 690 100%92%

3C 650 95%89%

6C 920 100%94%

6D 810 100%82%

forward throw 投げ1400(0+0+1400)100%100%、60%

back throw 4投げ1400(0+1400)100%60%

air throw 空投げ1400(0+1400)100%60%

ct クラッシュトリガー1000※80%100%キャラ

guard cancel カウンターアサルト0??

green burst ブレイクバースト(青)0??

ground ice sword 氷翔剣500 90%89%

air ice sword 空中 氷翔剣600 90%92%

fubuki 吹雪800 80%82%※同技乗算補正

rehhyou 裂氷1100 60%82%※同技乗算補正霧槍

ice car霧槍尖晶斬780 95%92%※同技乗算補正

follow up追加200??※固定200ダメージ※同技乗算補正

hizansen 氷斬閃1000※90%92%※同技乗算補正

sekka 雪華塵220 95%89%*(once)※同技乗算補正

followup 追加?(?+?)??

ex ice sword 氷翔撃(地)800×385%82%

air ex ice sword 氷翔撃(空)800×3全85%82%

hirensou both hits 氷連双1196(700+1100)70%92%※同技乗算補正

hirensou 2nd hit max charge 氷連双 2段目(最大溜め)1100 70%92%スライドダウン

ex ice car 霧槍 突晶撃640 85%92%※同技乗算補正

follow up 追加900 85%92%

hizangeki 氷斬撃1184(300+1500)85%99%、94%※同技乗算補正

hiyoku 氷翼月鳴2368*(?+?+?)??※下限ダメージ*1000↑*(?+?+?)

air hiyoku 空中 氷翼月鳴2368*(?+?+?)??下限ダメージ 800↑(?+?+?)

touga 凍牙氷刃?×n??飛び道具※下限ダメージ ?×n

yukikaze 虚空刃 雪風3060(100+3700)100%100%、60%(50)

asstroll 煉獄氷夜即死--

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It's all about the 6C! That combo sounds sick, I didn't think 6C > 6B would combo but man, I hope someone is going to record/upload this. Do you know if Hiyoku ground and/or air version have changed properties during OD? I was hella hyped for air Hiyoku but everyone to busy with OD Touga.

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Holy crap, they nerfed the hell out of Rehyou's P2 (82 as opposed to CSE's 92) and I'm hoping that's it's a typo and it's still 92 lol. I don't think I wanna use that thing in combos anymore unless I use it as the combo finisher if it turns out to be true.

lol 5A/2A 100 P1, that certainly doesn't sound right but whatever.

Air Ice sword has a 92 P2 and it's not a SMP move. Looks like TK. j.236A might see some combo usage during OD if its freeze duration is decent enough to at least allow a 66 5C (lol does that move even freeze?). Then we have Ice Car with a 92 P2 as well, so if we position ourselves right, we could use that as well for mid-screen combos as long as we use the last few of its active frames.

Moves to use during mid-screen OD combos:

5C

2C

j.2C

TK Hizansen (once)

TK j.236A (if it even freezes)

214B (well spaced, once)

Maybe something like...

5B > 5C > OD, 66 5C > TK Hizansen, 66 5C > TK Ice Blade, 214B, 66 5C > 6C > 2D, 66 5C > TK Ice Blade > 66 5C > Touga

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um...just looking at the dmg and proration stuff xlolxlolx posted. I know that it's probably not set in stone, but the only way I've gotten DP D to come out to 1196 with the values given is to change the character proration to 70. Any idea if they changed Jin's character proration from 80 in CS:EX?

EDIT: Just looked at 2B > 5C > 6C on a vid, does 1318. When I set character proration to 70 and use the values xlolxlolx posted, I get that. So I'm leaning toward saying they did change it to 70, but I could be wrong still.

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The 100 P1 on 5A/2A does seem iffy as hell though. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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Huh, I guess they're compromising the loss of longer combos with shorter combos + more damage.

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I think sekka follow-up has around 400 base damage on the first hit. I don't know about the 2nd cause I have no idea whether it applies proration from itself to the 2nd hit, but the total should be somewhere around 1110 base with no proration (assuming it doesn't apply proration to it's own 2nd hit) for both hits. I'm leaning toward a proration after both hits of around 82 or so, but it's not easy to nail down.... I'm getting a little more error in my calculations than I'd like when seeing sekka > follow-up > 5C > 2C and comparing it to my calculations.

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6c>ct>6c>6b>j.214d>6c>214b>5c>2c>6c>od>delay 2c>6d>6b>j.214c>236a>touga = 8k+ lol

midscreen comeback od combo: od>623c>dash 5b(1)>5c>6d>6b>j.214c>214b>touga = 3493

midscreen: ch 6c>214b whiff>dash 5c>6c>2d>j.2c>j.c>5b>(2b>)5c>2c>3c>214b~c = ~4k

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8K for 75 Heat and a Burst? I'll take it lol

lol, reversal OD combo, it was just a matter of time. Let's just wait and see what they can do with a OD reversal > DP D corner combo. Actually, if the 2nd hit of DP D freezes as well, we might be able to get some mid-screen stuff.

Hahaha, eQualz will get his 6C > 214B (whiff) > 66 5C combo after all. 4K for a reversal punish with 6C seems fair.

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6c>ct>6c>6b>j.214d>6c>214b>5c>2c>6c>od>delay 2c>6d>6b>j.214c>236a>touga = 8k+ lol

Dang...that touga OD follow up sounds like it does a ton of damage....

8K for 75 Heat and a Burst? I'll take it lol

I think that's 100 heat total...CT and j.214D each take 25 and touga for 50 more right?

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Dang...that touga OD follow up sounds like it does a ton of damage....

I think that's 100 heat total...CT and j.214D each take 25 and touga for 50 more right?

Yeah, that'd have to be 100 heat.

8k? Yup, this is gonna be good. :v:

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Ah you're right, you're going to be building quite a bit of meter during the combo itself so I don't think that 100 Heat is needed right off the bat.

I highly doubt anyone's gonna live if you pull that one off though lol.

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Speaking of meter gain: Since Jin's damage is mostly based off spending meter again, how is his meter cooldown looking? Pretty sure past games nerf your meter gain after spending some, although not to the extent of P4A IIRC. I'm wondering how this works in BBCP.

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I'm not entirely sure, gonna have to pay attention to the meter gauge next time I watch a Jin match.

I'm seeing CTs being used a lot during combos for every character. I wonder if that thing has a P2 100, bonus proration, or minimum damage or a mix of the two lol.

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Jin's CT at least almost has to have P2 of 100 or close to it, otherwise that 8k combo wouldn't be doing that much damage...at least I don't think so.

EDIT: I noticed from the OD combo in the first video that my calc for that combo start falling short of the video at 2D...this happens for crouching j.B > 5B > 5C > 6C > 2D as well in a non-OD situation. It looks like:

- 2D actually has 800 damage (calculations predicted 2D > 6B > 5B > 5C > 2C > 3C > 214B > C and crouching j.B > 5B > 5C > 6C > 2D > j.2C > j.C > 5B > 5C > 3C > 214B > C like a dream and the OD video's damage for 2D)

- EDIT: 214B followup does 200 damage when 214B is a starter and 198 damage at minimum

- Sekka followup might have P2 of about 83 (hard to tell), which is not applied to 2nd hit

- EDIT: Hizansen is problematic...it probably does have about 1k base (thank you Tetsu), but in the OD video in this thread it seems like it gets a buff to 1120

- Overdrive seems to blow all my calculations out of the water still (after 2D in the video, stuff still does more damage than I calculate), even though I'm almost certain my fix for 2D is correct...no idea what's going on with OD anymore, lol

Most of the normals, including 5A, seem correct though, in case you were wondering, lol.

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http://youtu.be/GrPuQ1FvTmg

@ the 0:37 mark you see Jin land 5C, 6C, 2D, Crush Trigger, j.2C, j.C, land, dash 5B (2 hits), 2B, 5C, 3C, 214B = 4168 Dmg

I'm wondering if he was able to combo into the Crush Trigger only because 5C landed during a tech roll (height specific) or if that combo could be legit on a crouching opponent. Tetsuwo was using 5C after 214 to punish tech rolls. Shit was looking mighty sexy when he was converting off of them.

I haven't been keeping up-to-date with BB since the CT days but holy fuck at the CH hit stun from fireballs and how people are converting off of them for like 3k dmg.

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That should be a legit combo off a roll punish, CH, or crouching confirm. The 2D forces standing, so the CT will definitely stagger if used after 2D. By the way, we believe that you don't have to hold the B in 214B, you trigger the 2nd hit manually by pushing C.

Yeah, Ice Blades on CH have always lead to big damage as long as you were relatively close to the opponent.

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Ok...I'm still finding it hard to believe this, but I think OD might buff the P2 on or give a Bonus Proration to some of Jin's drive moves.... If I bump up P2 of 2D to around 92, I predict the entire combo in the OD video in the starting post of the thread, except for Touga followup, which I can't calculate yet as I have no data on it (btw, Touga seems to be unchanged from CS:EX aside from the followup afaik). Don't get me wrong though...the value of 2D P2 posted is correct for non-OD still, lol.

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COnsidering OD is supposed to be a powerup, I could see it boosting P2 to make proration better.

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Touga OD follow-up does 600 damage minimum...not sure if it can do more if used early in a combo or not....

I'm guessing you'd almost have to use a Touga starter or CT > Touga point blank to get 1-3 hits while in OD to even reliably test if it had a minimum proration and could do more than 600, since Touga has so much proration the more hits it gets, lol.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrPuQ1FvTmg#t=1m40s

I'm not sure what's going on with Touga starter...in combos it seems unchanged from CS:EX but as a starter it looks like it got buffed slightly....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGfNuMKzwIE#t=2h52m55s

From this, the total minimum damage of ground Hiyoku is 1025 (confirmed with 2 videos, this one with a 11.5 and another with a 15.3 combo prorated Hiyoku). From other observations and checks, it looks like Hiyoku has P1 of around 74.7 (assuming 2368 damage as a starter), P2 of 75 and base damage of 800 + 100 x 22 + 1800 = 4800.

Min proration seems to be 25 for the first arrow, about 21 for arrows 2-23, and about 20.2 for last arrow. This gives a min damage of 200 + 21 x 22 + 363 = 1025. (I could still be wrong about some of this, but I don't have hard evidence to the contrary yet...video quality, and not having the game yet [:(], is a considerable barrier to confirmation.).

EDIT: This min proration estimate comes closer to matching combos I had trouble predicting, but I'm overshooting some observations by around 10 damage...which is much better than my original error of 100, lol. Also...the same video that confirmed min damage seems to have wrecked my estimate of either base damage, P2 or both...or I'm just not rounding the same as the game does.... Not sure what is wrong, but I underestimated the damage by 28 on a 38.3 prorated Hiyoku...probably an error in the rounding :gonk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN5UKOSAOUg#t=11m34s

From this, Air Hiyoku seems to have min proration of 20 for arrows 1 to 23. For reference, combo proration before Air Hiyoku is 22.7.

I'm guessing it's P2 is the same as the ground version, but I have no guarantee with my lack of video references for Air Hiyoku. P1 I don't know...if it does do 2368 as a starter, it's P1 would be about 89.2, assuming a P2 of 75.

EDIT: Or...I could be totally off track on Air Hiyoku.... Saw it do 820 when combo proration had reached 15.4 before Hiyoku or so and am slightly befuddled how I saw it do 830. Last arrow seems to be the culprit and is throwing my base damage estimate for said arrow and my P1 and P2 assumption through a loop. At least I did find out first arrow does appear to have 20 min proration...yay....

Possible solution is 800 + 100 x 22 + 1460 with P1 of 87.5 and P2 of 70 and min proration of 15 on last arrow for 820 min damage total (160 + 20 x 22 + 220 = 820). Don't hold me to it though, not enough data to tell for sure.

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